Revival (A Classic style WW)

[BishFish]

Hey guys,

its been a few years since i've been on, and I thought it would be fun to start a WW game. just the normal classic version. I'll take up to twenty people, but If I don't get enough by next weekend, I'll start with however many we have. Here we go!

On the western side of the Appalachians in West Virginia, there was a small coal mining town called Mining Town. the main street, called Access Road 2, had one general store, a tavern, an inn, though no one really came to Mining Town except for inspectors and businessmen associated with the mine, the sheriff's office, and a small baptist church. Mining Town was usually pretty quiet, though recently there has been more businessmen and inspectors coming through, and all of the miner's are on edge. the rumor is that something was discovered in the mine. no one knows what except for the miner who discovered it, and he hasn't been seen in a few days.

There will be 4 werewolves, 3 masons, 1 baner, 1 fool, 1 seer, and 1 devil.

**This is not actually one of the classic games, it just has basic rules.
Player list(19/20):

Spoiler

Show

The_Grimmace (Wolf)
Elemental
TheLaughingMan
Vesth
Ramsus
usourselves&we (Villager)
RuneBoundShade
Grue Bait
JollyChris
Gray Mage (Wolf)
Gnomish Wanderer
Penguinator
cd4
52.5 Lemons
bladescape (Villager)
Ceresian Memento
MethosH
Loreni333 (Villager)
Saposhiente

[Zjoot]

I'll join! Classic is my favorite.

[Elemental]

I'll participate.

[TheLaughingMan]

Well, until Universal Smash Bros. starts up, I suppose I can indulge in another game.

Count me in!

[Vesth]

In!

[Ramsus]

I'm in. -words to fill up space go here-

[usourselves&we]

We would like to say in.

[RuneboundShade]

Interesting, 3 wolves out of 20 players.... Nah, that's townisided, you should at least put a devil in, and putting in a fool as well could work.

Also, yeah, I'm in.

[Grue Bait]

In, please.

[JollyChris]

Well i've never played in one of these games but I'd like to try so I'm in.

[Zjoot]

Woohoo! I love getting new players, I think our little community is in desperate need of them.

[Penguinator]

Agreeing with Rune that a fool and a devil would make things interesting.

[Gray Mage]

Agreeing with Rune that a fool and a devil would make things interesting.

+1 to that.

I think I can fit a small game in my schedule.
In.

[Gnomish Wanderer]

Welcome to the club, JollyChris. I told ya this was fun.

Also I'm totally in this one.

[Grue Bait]

Well i've never played in one of these games but I'd like to try so I'm in.

Hey, welcome! You couldn't have joined a more perfect game for your first.

[Penguinator]

Sorry, I thought posting here was sufficient to say I'm in.

I guess I thought wrong.

[RuneboundShade]

Okay, we have another werewolf! That makes the bare minimum of werwolves you want in a 20 player game, We've also got a fool and masons, which kinda balance each other out...

No devil?

[Internet Flea]

I guess I'll join this game.

[cd4]

I think I will join this game.

Question: Is the guardian angel a baner, careless baner or someone who will sacrifice themselves to save someone else?

[Penguinator]

I'm still going to fight for a devil, or at the very least, a beast.

Last time I was in a game with no wolf power-roles (okay, none that were actually playing. We had an alpha who disappeared before the game started, and that was it) we complained until the narrator gave us a mercy scry. The game was still horribly skewed towards town.

And with Masons, the wolves need some fighting chance of winning, and a Devil is a good director of that.

[Zjoot]

You realize that he was trying to run a traditional werewolf game, right? Not our version of Classic, which has several added roles that aren't in the usual. From what I've seen it's usually a guardian angel (baner) seer, and wolves. I was actually sort of disappointed when he added masons and a fool. Devil would just make this mini-classic.

EDIT: Oh wait, that wasn't his intent, must've been wishful thinking on my part.

[Ramsus]

Well, if he removed the masons then wolves wouldn't need the devil certainly but, with them still in they do. Fool I don't know, could take it or leave it. It adds advantage to the wolves, not town. I'd actually be somewhat interested in seeing how just baner, seer, villagers, and wolves works out.

[BishFish]

Ok, There have been enough posts asking for a devil, beast, or some change to the roles I have chosen. Here is why I chose the ones I have:
Werewolves: duh.
Guardian Angel/Baner (They're the same thing): this is a necessity for any good ww game.
Seer: this makes it interesting because the seer knows who's evil, but can't tell, because then they'll be silenced! Its funny.
Fool: because a seer knowing that they are actually right is boring.
Masons: an allied force similar to the werewolves is good for reasons similar to the seer.

Why not other roles:
Devil: as soon as the devil finds a werewolf and the baner, the game is over.
Beast: I just didn't think of it.

If someone can convince me that adding a devil won't imbalance the game, I will add it.

Any other questions?

[Internet Flea]

Devil: as soon as the devil finds a werewolf and the baner, the game is over.

If someone can convince me that adding a devil won't imbalance the game, I will add it.

Seer declaring in thread and the Baner protecting him all game is equally broken. Probably more so, since the Masons, Baner and Fool can claim to him then and that's five fewer scries than he'd need otherwise.

And even if the Devil finds the Baner that's not going to stop the Seer from announcing himself once he's found a few wolves.

[Penguinator]

PMs are allowed in this game.

That in itself means that Seers are broken. They find the Baner, they get protected until the Baner kicks it, which if they're smart, won't happen.

The Devil hasn't got such protection. He can pretend he's the seer and get lynched horribly when they learn he isn't. He can stay quiet, but then the wolves randomly take him out. Hell, make him blind and not immune to NKs. Just put in a Devil.

Wolves with zero power roles isn't balanced. Ever. Except real life games, which run by somewhat different rules anyway. (At least, the ones I've played)

[Zjoot]

Not quite right there. Wolves without power roles are balanced when there aren't too many village roles. The real classic doesn't have wolf power roles and it's played in multiple forums and real life.

[Penguinator]

I just said that. I've played games in real life with just seer and baner. Of course, in a real life game, at least the way I've played, there's no way for the seer to get into contact with the baner. Not nearly as broken.

Let me put it this way. If there are masons, there must be a Devil. Masons are what wreck the balance.

[Zjoot]

Yeah, that's true. I just got myself wanting to play a really basic game.

EDIT: And besides that, I just realized that many of those games are played without pm's, which balances it a lot. The way it is though, I think this game needs a devil as well. (Plus it's such a fun role to play in Classic)

[Ramsus]

I'd have to agree to either add the Devil or drop masons and fool and make the game a no PM game to more simulate an irl game.

[RuneboundShade]

Game is never decided for either side, no matter what happens, I recently saw a game with 4 werewolves and 6 villagers, and guess what? The village ended up winning, and that wasn't because the wolves were stupid, it was because the players on the village side were epic.

Okay, the balancing of a devil... then I'll explain exactly how devil is balanced...

Best case scenario, the N1 and N2 scries are that of wolf and seer, devil contacts the wolf, they get the seer killed. The players have to go for the rest of the game without a seer, and, usually, soon enough, the baner dies as well, along with some masons.

However, as soon as 1 wolf is lynched, you'll usually start to see others go as well, as town NEVER lynches random, so town could still figure out the wolves, and still win the game, as demonstrated in the 4 wolf 6 villager game I saw.

Now, let's look at another scenario, the seer scries the devil and a wolf N1 and N2. The seer contacts the wolves and convinces them that he's the devil, and that the devil is the seer/fool. The wolves NK the devil that night, the seer claims in the middle of the day, the baner protects him that night, after killing the wolf that he scried earlier. The Masons contact the seer afterwards and the game is practically over, it's very hard for wolves to win from that point.

Thus the wolves CANNOT trust someone who contacts them as devil, therefore, the devil doesn't even begin to be broken.