Baldur's Gate: The Thread

[Sajiri]

So anyone know what Romance options are available for women in BG2:EE?

So far, I know of...
Anomen (not going to do again)
Rashaad (maybe? He didn't go for me in BG1)
Dorn (probably no, because he's evil)
Hexxat (another evil)

Mod-wise
Kelsey? At least he's not evil, but I don't know enough to say if I'd want to romance him.
Are there any other options, straight or lesbian compatible with EE?

I, too, would like to be able to romance Jaheira as a woman. I've done her as a male, but the option would be nice. Although it does bring up the True Neutral goes both ways meme.

I think I saw Tsujatha mod was updated? He was..interesting. Not my favourite but I think he was popular. There was also, um, that Imoen mod, not sure if it was updated. That one made me a little uncomfortable though.

This is all bringing back so many memories of this game. I found an old thing I did of my charname back in 2008

Spoiler

Show

Was supposed to be my version of that river of blood dream....man it looks terrible now

[Winthur]

There was also, um, that Imoen mod, not sure if it was updated. That one made me a little uncomfortable though.

Oh yeah, those (because there's a ton of them) are... fun... I suppose?...

[Sajiri]

Oh yeah, those (because there's a ton of them) are... fun... I suppose?...

I cant remember which it was. Id heard it was good, tried it, felt squeamish and uninstalled before finishing the mod. Maybe its for some people but not for me

[Sylthia]

Oh yeah, those (because there's a ton of them) are... fun... I suppose?...

I guess for those that want to RP evil characters?

I went and switched Yoshimo to a Fighter. He's not going to be my primary thief anyway, so might as well switch him.

[LibraryOgre]

You know, I'd kinda love a BG complete overhaul which made it Pool of Radiance in the IE engine.

[Cespenar]

Besides, Scion is quick, clean, specific, and doesn't spoil things quite so much as as Bhaalspawn does.

First line of BG2: "Ah, the child of Bhaal has awoken."

[Wardog]

One of the problems with an Evil run is that there's really no benefit (aside from getting all the best NPCs in the game). Once your Rep falls below a certain point, Guards start attacking you on sight, all the Vendor prices go up and then you can't even use one of the best weapons in the game and everything's just a bad time all 'round. The best you can really do without making the game unfun, is running a Neutral main character, with a bunch of Evil followers (Korgan, Edwin, Viconia) and hope your Rep doesn't get too high.

That, and most evil options are Stupid Evil, particularly in BG1

Made-up example:

NPC: "Please help me! My kitten is stuck in a tree!"
Good response: "Of course I'll help you!"
Neutral response: "Only if you pay me!"
Evil response: *eat kitten*

The good responses often give more xp too, and given that high rep lowers shop prices, it will pay off more in the long run than the neutral. So you basically have a choice between "long-term gain", "short-term gain", "lolderp".

[Calemyr]

First line of BG2: "Ah, the child of Bhaal has awoken."

Yeah, in BG2. In BG1 that is an earth-shattering revelation that can change your perspective on your situation and everything that's come before.

That, and most evil options are Stupid Evil, particularly in BG1

Made-up example:

NPC: "Please help me! My kitten is stuck in a tree!"
Good response: "Of course I'll help you!"
Neutral response: "Only if you pay me!"
Evil response: *eat kitten*

The good responses often give more xp too, and given that high rep lowers shop prices, it will pay off more in the long run than the neutral. So you basically have a choice between "long-term gain", "short-term gain", "lolderp".

What exactly would be a good "evil" solution for your example?
* Cut down the tree, possibly crushing the kitten and a nearby house, then brazenly asking if she's going to pay you for your effort.
* Shoot the cat out of the tree with a bow and demand to be thanked.
* Summon an imp or a mephit to fly up and chase the cat down, emotionally scarring the little ball of fluff for life, then walking away laughing about how much fun that was to watch.
* Cast "enlarge" on the cat, so that the branch it's holding onto can't support it and it falls to the ground. Extra points if the branches are situated that it falls like a pachinko ball.
* Grab NPC and toss them up into the tree to be with their kitten.
* Laugh at NPC, laugh at cat, go shopping, then come all the way back to laugh at both again.
* Climb tree, obviously collect kitten in a bag, use sleight of hand to replace it with a sleeping skunk, then deliver the bag to NPC.
* Collect kitten and then hold an impromptu auction for it, ultimately selling it to the fur trader. Use the money to buy a rather familiar looking hat.
* Cheerfully pat NPC on the head and happily tell them that the few dirty coppers they can scrounge together is not nearly worth as much as this delightful tension. Will the cat fall or starve to death? Who knows!
I'm really curious what the "proper" solution would be for an evil person.

[Cespenar]

Yeah, in BG2. In BG1 that is an earth-shattering revelation that can change your perspective on your situation and everything that's come before.

Eh, maybe. BG1 is pretty story-lite anyway, on par with IWD.

By the way, those are very good evil choices.

[LibraryOgre]

Yeah, in BG2. In BG1 that is an earth-shattering revelation that can change your perspective on your situation and everything that's come before.

FWIW, I consider BG to be pretty spoiler-safe at this point... the game can drive, at this point, and so anyone who wants to avoid spoilers needs to find a spoiler-free place to talk about it.

However, I'm planning on restarting with a Skald. I figure the Chesley Crusher, combined with only having 1 attack per round anyway, makes him a good 1st game character. Since I've never played the second, it will be nice to use.

[Winthur]

Yeah, in BG2. In BG1 that is an earth-shattering revelation that can change your perspective on your situation and everything that's come before.

The more earth-shattering revelation for me at the time was that in the same letter Gorion says that he used to bang my mom. My first completed playthrough was a dwarven fighter. Makes rolling a half-orc in BG2 (or BG1 TuTu, I guess) all the more uncomfortable.

How many Richter points did the Koveras -> Sarevok thing score?

[Feytalist]

How many Richter points did the Koveras -> Sarevok thing score?

I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I spotted it the moment I met him on my first playthrough ever.

I guess it helps that I tend to be on the lookout for ananyms in "weird" names.



Speaking of BG2. I love Cernd. His dialogue is hilarious and his greater werewolf form is kill-everything strong. Have him in an all-nature party with Valygar and Minsc and Jaheira... and Viconia. She just snarks at everyone. It's awesome.


...I don't think I've ever modded either of the BG games.

[Sylthia]

I should be able to finish Irenicus's dungeon once I get home tonight. I think I'll download Unfinished Business, since I've never used it, or many addons in general.

I think I'll pick up Aerie first, making my initial team look like...

Rhea, the Half-Elf Ranger/Cleric
Jaheira
Minsc
Yoshimo
Aerie

Does anyone know when Minsc's side quest triggers? I want to do his side quest, but don't intend to keep him long term.

[Morty]

The more earth-shattering revelation for me at the time was that in the same letter Gorion says that he used to bang my mom.

Wasn't that retconned later on in Throne of Bhaal?

[Calemyr]

I should be able to finish Irenicus's dungeon once I get home tonight. I think I'll download Unfinished Business, since I've never used it, or many addons in general.

I think I'll pick up Aerie first, making my initial team look like...

Rhea, the Half-Elf Ranger/Cleric
Jaheira
Minsc
Yoshimo
Aerie

Does anyone know when Minsc's side quest triggers? I want to do his side quest, but don't intend to keep him long term.

Spend some time in the Docks district. You may need to go to a different district to trigger the event, but Minsc has to have spent time in the Docks district for it to trigger at all. Minsc will bring it up out of the blue.

I do note you're not using *any* of the new characters in that list. You may want to consider it:
* Rasaad is a monk. BG1 hates monks. BG2 adores them. He's also a good aligned guy with a far more complicated story this time around. You could do far worse for a romantic interest for a female Scion. You need him to get Wilson, if you ever wanted to see if he actually exists.
* Dorn is pretty much the same as always, which is to say he's pretty much everything Minsc is in an evil package. His storyline is pretty compelling and the new zones attached to him are interesting. Doing his quests, however, require you to take frequent hits to your rep, and if you don't do them very carefully they can be big hits. Clever people can do it with only a minimal loss, but you will be losing 3 or 4 points at the very least, not counting the -2 for having a blackguard on the team.
* Neera opens up a zone with a lot of odd little quests, often with neat rewards, such as an enchanted beer stein that fills up with healing potion three times a day or a fairly easy to obtain variant on the +2 amulet of protection. Just do yourself a favor and do all other wild mage quests before trying to recruit the bard. There's also a handy robe with innate Chaos Shield on it, which tilts the odds on a wild surge in your favor a bit, making her less of a liability.
* Hexxat is evil, yes. She'll bristle at high reputation like any other villain you recruit. However, she isn't portrayed as evil all that much, she doesn't like hurting people or covet power for its own sake, she's just practical and driven to survive at any costs. She won't suggest you kill a kitten, but she will suggest that you could just easily pickpocket or kill an unfriendly scholar rather than do the irritating fetch quests he demands in trade for his key. At first she comes off as a bit inept and useless, but if you complete her first quest she becomes a lot more interesting on all fronts. Her quests result in a lot of exotic gear (including a bag of holding at the end of the first mission) and she's a pure thief. A non-kitted thief, regrettably, so I usually mod her myself. Never quite sure if I should make her a swashbuckler, an assassin, a shadowdancer, or a fighter/thief...

Particularly fun combos of old characters, however:
* Minsc and Aerie or Minsc and Nalia: Minsc takes either one of them as a new witch. Not much changes beyond dialogue and a new tendency of Minsc to berserk if his witch is hurt.
* Valygar and Mazzy: This one is endearing. Mazzy just decides that, as a knight, she needs a squire and that Valygar is now it. Valygar's reaction to it and their relationship from then on is pretty great.
* Korgan and Mazzy: Korgan may make lewd passes at anything in a skirt, but he seems to truly care for Mazzy. It's kind of weird to watch him try to be nice to someone.
* Korgan and Aerie: Again, Korgan loves to be crude, especially around sweet, innocent Aerie. In SoA this ultimately ends in bloodshed when Aerie finally can't take any more, but with ToB it's modified so that Korgan respects her for standing up for herself.

Wasn't that retconned later on in Throne of Bhaal?

Kinda. It's never said that the mother never knew Gorion, but she never mentions him either. She also is a rather zealous cultist to the god of murder, which doesn't strike me as up Gorion's alley. It's certainly possible that they were close once and that Gorion's worry for her growing darkness is what brought him (and the Harpers) in on the whole scheme.

Honestly, though, I think the letter was just another manipulation on Gorion's part. He was raising an unholy abomination (quite possibly the scariest of an entire horde of abominations) as if they were his own child, in the hopes that the Scion would be a weapon against the prophecy instead of for it. He wanted to forge a familial bond with the Scion, even after they learned of their heritage. The child of a lost lover still evokes a familial tie that "you're an extremely dangerous experiment in nature vs nurture" could never be. He wanted the Scion to look at him as a legitimate father figure.

[Winthur]

Wasn't that retconned later on in Throne of Bhaal?

Yes, it was.

Speaking of BG2. I love Cernd. His dialogue is hilarious and his greater werewolf form is kill-everything strong. Have him in an all-nature party with Valygar and Minsc and Jaheira... and Viconia. She just snarks at everyone. It's awesome.

If I'm correct, Valygar and Viconia come to blows sooner or later.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion about Cernd! In an unmodded game, I personally think his fighting prowess is extremely low and he isn't even a great support spellcaster (not in a game where Aerie and Viconia exist). The times where I had him in my team, he was an okayish mid-game asset because Greater Werewolf form had low AC (at the time where low AC actually matters) and he could cast Stoneskin to become an ultimate damage soak, but by Underdark he was barely capable of hitting anyone with his low THAC0 in werewolf form. I'd rather have even Viconia on the frontline. And he isn't as colourful as other NPCs.

Maybe he doesn't "suck" per se; he has 18 Wisdom, can cast really good spells (especially in ToB, those Elemental Princes, especially Sunnis, rule) and such, but he's IMHO the weakest joinable NPC in the game because single classed Druids aren't that impressive and the Shapeshifter is gimped in the release game -- though that's in a game which, in contrast to BG1, has pretty much only very strong characters.

He gets OP in Ease of Use though.

[Sylthia]

Spend some time in the Docks district. You may need to go to a different district to trigger the event, but Minsc has to have spent time in the Docks district for it to trigger at all. Minsc will bring it up out of the blue.

I do note you're not using *any* of the new characters in that list. You may want to consider it:
* Rasaad is a monk. BG1 hates monks. BG2 adores them. He's also a good aligned guy with a far more complicated story this time around. You could do far worse for a romantic interest for a female Scion. You need him to get Wilson, if you ever wanted to see if he actually exists.
* Dorn is pretty much the same as always, which is to say he's pretty much everything Minsc is in an evil package. His storyline is pretty compelling and the new zones attached to him are interesting. Doing his quests, however, require you to take frequent hits to your rep, and if you don't do them very carefully they can be big hits. Clever people can do it with only a minimal loss, but you will be losing 3 or 4 points at the very least, not counting the -2 for having a blackguard on the team.
* Neera opens up a zone with a lot of odd little quests, often with neat rewards, such as an enchanted beer stein that fills up with healing potion three times a day or a fairly easy to obtain variant on the +2 amulet of protection. Just do yourself a favor and do all other wild mage quests before trying to recruit the bard. There's also a handy robe with innate Chaos Shield on it, which tilts the odds on a wild surge in your favor a bit, making her less of a liability.
* Hexxat is evil, yes. She'll bristle at high reputation like any other villain you recruit. However, she isn't portrayed as evil all that much, she doesn't like hurting people or covet power for its own sake, she's just practical and driven to survive at any costs. She won't suggest you kill a kitten, but she will suggest that you could just easily pickpocket or kill an unfriendly scholar rather than do the irritating fetch quests he demands in trade for his key. At first she comes off as a bit inept and useless, but if you complete her first quest she becomes a lot more interesting on all fronts. Her quests result in a lot of exotic gear (including a bag of holding at the end of the first mission) and she's a pure thief. A non-kitted thief, regrettably, so I usually mod her myself. Never quite sure if I should make her a swashbuckler, an assassin, a shadowdancer, or a fighter/thief...

Particularly fun combos of old characters, however:
* Minsc and Aerie or Minsc and Nalia: Minsc takes either one of them as a new witch. Not much changes beyond dialogue and a new tendency of Minsc to berserk if his witch is hurt.
* Valygar and Mazzy: This one is endearing. Mazzy just decides that, as a knight, she needs a squire and that Valygar is now it. Valygar's reaction to it and their relationship from then on is pretty great.
* Korgan and Mazzy: Korgan may make lewd passes at anything in a skirt, but he seems to truly care for Mazzy. It's kind of weird to watch him try to be nice to someone.
* Korgan and Aerie: Again, Korgan loves to be crude, especially around sweet, innocent Aerie. In SoA this ultimately ends in bloodshed when Aerie finally can't take any more, but with ToB it's modified so that Korgan respects her for standing up for herself.



Kinda. It's never said that the mother never knew Gorion, but she never mentions him either. She also is a rather zealous cultist to the god of murder, which doesn't strike me as up Gorion's alley. It's certainly possible that they were close once and that Gorion's worry for her growing darkness is what brought him (and the Harpers) in on the whole scheme.

Honestly, though, I think the letter was just another manipulation on Gorion's part. He was raising an unholy abomination (quite possibly the scariest of an entire horde of abominations) as if they were his own child, in the hopes that the Scion would be a weapon against the prophecy instead of for it. He wanted to forge a familial bond with the Scion, even after they learned of their heritage. The child of a lost lover still evokes a familial tie that "you're an extremely dangerous experiment in nature vs nurture" could never be. He wanted the Scion to look at him as a legitimate father figure.

That's not my final party by a long shot. I'm just planning on using the thread to do a pseudo Lets Play and that who I have in my party now.

I actually won't probably use any of my current party long term except maybe Aerie. I just want to get all their side quests down first.

[Morty]

Hmm, when I played BG:EE, I got stuck fighting Sarevok. I think the Enhanced Edition makes the fight even more insane than it normally is. I couldn't see any way of winning, so I stopped. The designers of the original game didn't have a very good handle on this whole 'balanced fights' thing. Can't say I was looking forward to the Tales of the Sword Coast content, either. It was mostly a lot of really tough fights and vicious traps. I wonder if I still have those saves. If I do, I could cheat my way past Sarevok, import the saves to BG2:EE, give myself the XP TotSC would give me via console and try it. I could keep testing my Fighter kit idea.

[LibraryOgre]

Hmm, when I played BG:EE, I got stuck fighting Sarevok. I think the Enhanced Edition makes the fight even more insane than it normally is. I couldn't see any way of winning, so I stopped. The designers of the original game didn't have a very good handle on this whole 'balanced fights' thing. Can't say I was looking forward to the Tales of the Sword Coast content, either. It was mostly a lot of really tough fights and vicious traps. I wonder if I still have those saves. If I do, I could cheat my way past Sarevok, import the saves to BG2:EE, give myself the XP TotSC would give me via console and try it. I could keep testing my Fighter kit idea.

Lots of fights become easier, IME, once you realize the Protection from Magic is one of the most potent offensive scrolls in the game.

[Wardog]

I'm really curious what the "proper" solution would be for an evil person.

A) Ignore the problem, because you are too busy plotting to take over the world.
B) Help them, for a reward - the extra cash will be useful for your plot to take over the world.
C) Help them for free - the improved reputation will be useful for your plot to take over the world.

[Feytalist]

If I'm correct, Valygar and Viconia come to blows sooner or later.

Never in any of my playthroughs, if I remember.

It could be that I just didn't spend enough in-game time for it to happen. I frequently didn't even spend enough time to finish the romances, even if I do all of the quests, and without swapping characters out at all. Surely 60+ in-game days are enough though? I dunno.


As for Cernd; maybe I just like druids. They can tank with the best of them. And TOB druids do get some juicy abilities.

[Winthur]

Hmm, when I played BG:EE, I got stuck fighting Sarevok. I think the Enhanced Edition makes the fight even more insane than it normally is. I couldn't see any way of winning, so I stopped. The designers of the original game didn't have a very good handle on this whole 'balanced fights' thing. Can't say I was looking forward to the Tales of the Sword Coast content, either. It was mostly a lot of really tough fights and vicious traps. I wonder if I still have those saves. If I do, I could cheat my way past Sarevok, import the saves to BG2:EE, give myself the XP TotSC would give me via console and try it. I could keep testing my Fighter kit idea.

I remember once playing North Tales of the Sword Coast, probably the biggest addon to BG1 I've ever seen. Increases level cap to 20, adds in a bunch of NPCs, one of whom is a Deus Ex Machina, and a ton of new items for Bards and Druids that make them playable in BG1. And of course certain combat encounters like this one mage in his tower are understandably souped up. I believe Sarevok gets upgraded again, too. Though, if you had problems with Sarevok, I would probably munch on popcorn to see you take on Aec'Letec.

[Calemyr]

A) Ignore the problem, because you are too busy plotting to take over the world.
B) Help them, for a reward - the extra cash will be useful for your plot to take over the world.
C) Help them for free - the improved reputation will be useful for your plot to take over the world.

In other words, solutions that the game usually offers as "good" or "neutral" options, while also adding a "jackass" option for good measure?

[Feytalist]

In other words, solutions that the game usually offers as "good" or "neutral" options, while also adding a "jackass" option for good measure?

That was the point, I believe. The answer was somewhat facetious.

The point being, that you can roleplay an evil character as is, with any motivation. You don't need a dedicated "evil" response in order to play evil. Evil characters can be genre savvy, too.

This is actually why I have a problem with all those "[lie]" responses. Aren't we smart enough to decide for ourselves when we're lying? We get our lies cherry-picked for us.


Edit: think of Edwin. Edwin is the perfect evil character. We only know he's evil because we can hear his internal monologue. If we couldn't, he would be a perfectly nice if somewhat pretentious person. He gladly pretends to follow the PC's lead as long as it furthers his own agenda.

[Winthur]

Edit: think of Edwin. Edwin is the perfect evil character. We only know he's evil because we can hear his internal monologue. If we couldn't, he would be a perfectly nice if somewhat pretentious person. He gladly pretends to follow the PC's lead as long as it furthers his own agenda.

"Nice if somewhat pretentious" is a very interesting way to put it given his "WHAT NOW?!?" attitude, but I see what you mean.

Even Xzar and Montaron sound like perfectly normal people when you first meet them. They offer you a healing potion free of charge and don't go "giev potion back" when you decide that you don't want them with you. They want to use you to get to Nashkel because you look moderately tough, have some weapons and are going that way anyway.

For another example, Kagain is just greedy. He owns a company, his sidequest's side effect means saving a life (of course he does it for the money). It can be easily assumed that Kagain would tag along with the party for as long as they keep finding the dosh. It can be easily assumed that due to his Lawful nature he'll probably be happy and loyal to the team as long as they keep on providing the dosh. None of his responses are bloodthirsty, he is just a grumpy dorf with a filthy mouth and a love for gold. So basically just a dorf.

I never really got how Viconia is particularly evil either. She's mostly just tsundere. Plus I guess she serves an evil goddess.

Now that I think of it a lot of people's alignment sucks. Jaheira certainly doesn't behave like a True Neutral. Neither does Faldorn.

[Sylthia]

"Nice if somewhat pretentious" is a very interesting way to put it given his "WHAT NOW?!?" attitude, but I see what you mean.

Even Xzar and Montaron sound like perfectly normal people when you first meet them. They offer you a healing potion free of charge and don't go "giev potion back" when you decide that you don't want them with you. They want to use you to get to Nashkel because you look moderately tough, have some weapons and are going that way anyway.

For another example, Kagain is just greedy. He owns a company, his sidequest's side effect means saving a life (of course he does it for the money). It can be easily assumed that Kagain would tag along with the party for as long as they keep finding the dosh. It can be easily assumed that due to his Lawful nature he'll probably be happy and loyal to the team as long as they keep on providing the dosh. None of his responses are bloodthirsty, he is just a grumpy dorf with a filthy mouth and a love for gold. So basically just a dorf.

I never really got how Viconia is particularly evil either. She's mostly just tsundere. Plus I guess she serves an evil goddess.

Now that I think of it a lot of people's alignment sucks. Jaheira certainly doesn't behave like a True Neutral. Neither does Faldorn.

With the Druids, it's more because 2nd ed literally requires them to be TN to be Druids. With Jaheira especially it's a bit weird because aren't the Harpers Good?

[Winthur]

With the Druids, it's more because 2nd ed literally requires them to be TN to be Druids. With Jaheira especially it's a bit weird because aren't the Harpers Good?

Yup. Shadow Druids - and Faldorn is one - are generally evil. You kinda fight them all the time in BG1, they're green fascists.

[LibraryOgre]

That was the point, I believe. The answer was somewhat facetious.

The point being, that you can roleplay an evil character as is, with any motivation. You don't need a dedicated "evil" response in order to play evil. Evil characters can be genre savvy, too.

This is actually why I have a problem with all those "[lie]" responses. Aren't we smart enough to decide for ourselves when we're lying? We get our lies cherry-picked for us.

Whereas I like there being [lie] responses; while *I* might decide my character is lying, I like for the game to know it, too. If the game is taking "I only ever wanted you, Ravel" seriously, and not as a thing I'm saying to make Ravel give me stuff, then it rather changes the nature of the man, doesn't it?

[Sylthia]

Okay, I feel dumb, but how do I add mods (like Unfinished Business) to BG2:EE? I have Windows 8 and got it on Steam, if that helps.

[Morty]

Lots of fights become easier, IME, once you realize the Protection from Magic is one of the most potent offensive scrolls in the game.

Unfortunately, I don't have them. I did try drinking those magic-resistance potions, but to no avail.

I remember once playing North Tales of the Sword Coast, probably the biggest addon to BG1 I've ever seen. Increases level cap to 20, adds in a bunch of NPCs, one of whom is a Deus Ex Machina, and a ton of new items for Bards and Druids that make them playable in BG1. And of course certain combat encounters like this one mage in his tower are understandably souped up. I believe Sarevok gets upgraded again, too. Though, if you had problems with Sarevok, I would probably munch on popcorn to see you take on Aec'Letec.

Difficulty-increasing mods do not interest me in the slightest, no. I find both games plenty difficult as they are. BG1, especially, which has that unique "oops there goes my head" AD&D feel on low levels, and some moderately absurdly-balanced encounters on the higher ones.