Succubi, Suckers

[Mewtarthio]

Did anyone ever notice that Succubi/Incubi would have little use in the Blood War? I doubt that demons are prone to the charms of a Succubus (though they might appreciate her horns'n'hoofs original form more than any other, and the higher ranking fiends will likely be paranoid enough to ward themselves agaisnt shapeshifters.

Wow. Other demons must hate succubi. They spend all their time fighting and constantly getting killed and re-killed, while the succubi just hang around and wait for some fool to summon them so they can go have sex with as many people as possible.

Of course, the succubi have the slight disadvantage of their main combat tactic being "tackle-glomp the enemy and attempt to make out with him/her." I don't imagine it works very well against, say, disgruntled Balors...

[Optimystik]

Of course, the succubi have the slight disadvantage of their main combat tactic being "tackle-glomp the enemy and attempt to make out with him/her." I don't imagine it works very well against, say, disgruntled Balors...

I think you meant Pit Fiend - Balors have no reason to be disgruntled at succubi.

[Altima]

Wow. Other demons must hate succubi. They spend all their time fighting and constantly getting killed and re-killed, while the succubi just hang around and wait for some fool to summon them so they can go have sex with as many people as possible.

Of course, the succubi have the slight disadvantage of their main combat tactic being "tackle-glomp the enemy and attempt to make out with him/her." I don't imagine it works very well against, say, disgruntled Balors...

Succubi are also, generally, consorts to high-ranking demons (like Grazz't, who probably has a flippin' plane devoted to his harem). It's also quite hard for succubi to get to the prime material plane, though probably easier than most other sorts of demons. So they're around, ahem, servicing the troops more than you think.

Also, the succubi are in charge of the, erm, breeding pits. Ever heard of cambions? Half-fiend birth goes both ways, and there's more than one way succubi can bolster the troops.

Plus succubi aren't half-bad fighters. Certainly can't stand up to erinyes, but I imagine their desire to avoid combat leads them to some rather sneaky tactics atypical of most tanar'ri.

[Mordokai]

I think you meant Pit Fiend - Balors have no reason to be disgruntled at succubi.

We're talking about effin' CE race of beings. They are digruntled by everything, by definition. Balors perhaps doubly so, seeing they have the power to pretty much crush everything, save for demon princes. And a molydeus or two...

[Optimystik]

We're talking about effin' CE race of beings. They are digruntled by everything, by definition. Balors perhaps doubly so, seeing they have the power to pretty much crush everything, save for demon princes. And a molydeus or two...

Fair enough - they have considerably less reason based solely on the fact that every minute they spend trying to kill a succubus is a minute they're not spending on trying to kill an erinyes.

Better?

[Mewtarthio]

Fair enough - they have considerably less reason based solely on the fact that every minute they spend trying to kill a succubus is a minute they're not spending on trying to kill an erinyes.

Better?

That's why they're disgruntled, obviously. A disgruntled Pit Fiend wouldn't necessarily attack a succubus. In fact, a Pit Fiend attacking a succubus would probably be very happy indeed, given how much they enjoy fighting chaos.

Also, Pit Fiends aren't as funny. I mean, it's one thing to tackle-glomp a ridiculously powerful monster that wants to eat your face off; it's another thing entirely to tackle-glomp a ridiculously powerful monster that wants to eat your face off and is perpetually on fire.

[Tome]

I recall in one game one of my PCs managed to defeat a succubus using a combination of his Touch Of Golden Ice feat and a Deathward spell. If you know what I mean.

*Insert "It was hot/cool" pun here.*

[Kylarra]

That's why they're disgruntled, obviously. A disgruntled Pit Fiend wouldn't necessarily attack a succubus. In fact, a Pit Fiend attacking a succubus would probably be very happy indeed, given how much they enjoy fighting chaos.

Also, Pit Fiends aren't as funny. I mean, it's one thing to tackle-glomp a ridiculously powerful monster that wants to eat your face off; it's another thing entirely to tackle-glomp a ridiculously powerful monster that wants to eat your face off and is perpetually on fire.

Psh they'd only take 11 points of fire damage per round!

[Volkov]

That's why they're disgruntled, obviously. A disgruntled Pit Fiend wouldn't necessarily attack a succubus. In fact, a Pit Fiend attacking a succubus would probably be very happy indeed, given how much they enjoy fighting chaos.

Also, Pit Fiends aren't as funny. I mean, it's one thing to tackle-glomp a ridiculously powerful monster that wants to eat your face off; it's another thing entirely to tackle-glomp a ridiculously powerful monster that wants to eat your face off and is perpetually on fire.

The former has some of the most potent poison in the multiverse. With a saving throw against death.

[Mewtarthio]

I recall in one game one of my PCs managed to defeat a succubus using a combination of his Touch Of Golden Ice feat and a Deathward spell. If you know what I mean.

...You defeated it with holy STDs?

[AstralFire]

I recall in one game one of my PCs managed to defeat a succubus using a combination of his Touch Of Golden Ice feat and a Deathward spell. If you know what I mean.

*Insert "It was hot/cool" pun here.*

...You defeated it with holy STDs?

This is, hands down, the most goddamned brilliant thing in this thread. Everything else is standard 'evil DM' fare.

[Tanuki Tales]

You know, I've always been curious on this fact...

How do we even know that there is a distinct Incubus race and a distinct Succubus race and not just Succubi jumping between genders?

[Tinydwarfman]

A good succubi would make for a great 'to catch a predator' spoof.

[JoshuaZ]

You know, I've always been curious on this fact...

How do we even know that there is a distinct Incubus race and a distinct Succubus race and not just Succubi jumping between genders?

Interesting point to bring up. In fact, in some myths they aren't at all different. They switch genders each time they have sex. This sort of issue was discussed quite seriously. Aquinas speculated that succubi took seed from males they had intercourse with and then turned into incubi to give that seed to female victims. However, others writers seem pretty sure that succubi and incubi are distinct creatures. In general, with almost any form of folklore there are a lot of different versions. Moreover, a lot of the time, folklore doesn't make as careful distinctions between creatures as we do. In Eastern European myths, vampires and werewolves lived sort of on a continuum of evil shapechangers.

[GolemsVoice]

Ok, I thought primarily of actually fighting in the Blood War, like, bashing in each other's horned heads. Of course, Succubi DO have their uses in the Blood War, even if we stay inside the Lower Planes. I imagine them to be something of "administration", since they seem more level-headed than most front-line devils, and have a good connection to higher-ranking fiends.

[Brother Oni]

Interesting point to bring up. In fact, in some myths they aren't at all different. They switch genders each time they have sex. This sort of issue was discussed quite seriously. Aquinas speculated that succubi took seed from males they had intercourse with and then turned into incubi to give that seed to female victims. However, others writers seem pretty sure that succubi and incubi are distinct creatures. In general, with almost any form of folklore there are a lot of different versions. Moreover, a lot of the time, folklore doesn't make as careful distinctions between creatures as we do. In Eastern European myths, vampires and werewolves lived sort of on a continuum of evil shapechangers.

I was under the impression that succubi represented seduction aspect of sex, while incubus represented the rape aspect of sex.

Basically 'lead to do things aginst your will' compared to 'forced to do things against your will', if you see what I mean. Crap, I'm not explaining it very well, am I?

[ondonaflash]

Good point: In a world where gender is as flexible as a level five spell, does gender actually matter?

One work that does a good job of showing Balor-Succubi Dynamic is "The Spine of the World", by RA Salvatore. Wulfgar has flashbacks to his time trapped in the Abyss (It messes him up hard, he actually recovers more quickly than I expected). But in 4e they got rid of Erinyes, and the Succubi switched sides, makes more sense to me, since I always viewed temptation as more of a Devil thing than a Demon thing, and that's basically all Succubi do.

[hamishspence]

Erinyes are still around- in 4E MM2. They don't have wings though- and are soldiers, not tempters.

Demonomicon of Iggwilv: Malcanthet (3.5 Dragon Magazine) has the rules for incubi.

[JoshuaZ]

I was under the impression that succubi represented seduction aspect of sex, while incubus represented the rape aspect of sex.

Possibly. There's a mix in the mythological material. Succubi definitely go against unwilling people while sleeping in a fair bit of myths. They were used to explain certain occurences among human males that occur during sleep. Spelling that out further would likely be too explicit for board rules.

[Zeful]

Good point: In a world where gender is as flexible as a level five spell, does gender actually matter?

Second level spell, actually.

[lesser_minion]

Succubi are also, generally, consorts to high-ranking demons (like Grazz't, who probably has a flippin' plane devoted to his harem). It's also quite hard for succubi to get to the prime material plane, though probably easier than most other sorts of demons. So they're around, ahem, servicing the troops more than you think.

I'm pretty sure I remember something about Malcanthet feeling everything her succubi did, although it could have been mortal thralls.

I'm also pretty sure Grazz't and Malcanthet are sworn enemies.

[hamishspence]

They hate each other- but they are in a state of "cold war" which involves sending numerous spies into each other's domains.

[Nai_Calus]

Also, succubi are in charge of the, erm, breeding pits. Ever heard of cambions? Half-fiend birth goes both ways, and there's more than one way succubi can bolster the troops.

.

Actually cambions were supposed to have a demon father and a mortal mother. Alu-fiends were the ones who had succubi as mothers. At least according to Planescape, anyway.

[hamishspence]

Still the case in Demonomicon: Malcanthet.

Cambions as a separate creature from half-fiends, actually exist in 3.5- in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits.

Unlike half-fiends, one parent was usually a planetouched, rather than a full human. They do not have wings. And are Extraplanar Outsiders native to the Abyss, with the Chaotic and Evil subtypes.

That is to say, technically fiends, and demons.

Yet, are only Often Chaotic Evil, Usually Evil (10% are Neutral or Good).