D&D Orcish Warpaint rule

[johnswiftwood]

It's come to my attention that orcs are very similar to Celtic and Maori warriors in terms of culture,So I decided to create a rule to emphasize that

Orcish warpaint, intelligence must be lower than 15 to use, may be equipped up to 10 times,cannot reverse chosen effects, 25gp per body part .(head,arm,leg,ect)

+1 Morale boost, to hit, to damage, or to defense of your choice. (AC, Fortitude, Reflex, or Will.)

[Ninja_Grand]

I like it. But seems a bit to much juice for so cheep.

[Rainbownaga]

Get rid of the intelligence requirement- especially if you're going to compare it to real world cultures in the preceeding paragraph

[johnswiftwood]

Get rid of the intelligence requirement- especially if you're going to compare it to real world cultures in the preceeding paragraph

Okay then,but that would throw it into overpowered territory,especially for something non magical

[johnswiftwood]

I like it. But seems a bit to much juice for so cheep.

Well this is just how i run it,and it's only the average price.for before the game itself,if you wanna get it after the game starts be prepared to find a Good or Neutral orc tribe (which in my campaign are incredibly common) to join for a while

[johnswiftwood]

Well this is just how i run it,and it's only the average price.for before the game itself,if you wanna get it after the game starts be prepared to find a Good or Neutral orc tribe (which in my campaign are incredibly common) to join for a while

Sorry about my grammar i haven't studied it since the 3rd grade

[Debihuman]

Orcish warpaint can be non-magical, but it should only give a +1 Morale bonus to Intimidate checks and to hit but not to damage.

Debby

[Shpadoinkle]

Things like these rituals, or things like symbols or totems or battle standards (flags,) should give circumstance bonuses. Yeah, somebody from outside the tribe could put on orcish war paint the same way they do, but if they're not really part of the tribe it doesn't inspire them the same way it does for these orcs.

[johnswiftwood]

Orcish warpaint can be non-magical, but it should only give a +1 Morale bonus to Intimidate checks and to hit but not to damage.

Debb

the attack and defensive roll bonuses stem from the celts 'armor' which was blue paint believed to be able to deflect arrows

[johnswiftwood]

Orcish warpaint can be non-magical, but it should only give a +1 Morale bonus to Intimidate checks and to hit but not to damage.

Debb

sorry i didn't read your comment carefully, it's all one big placebo, these orcs are taught from birth that the paint enhances combat prowess, so therefore that must mean striking strength as well

[Debihuman]

How does wearing paint make your hits harder? It can make you more imposing and threatening (hence the +1 to Intimidate and to hit) but it doesn't add to your damage per se.

There are some things that don't make sense unless they are magical in nature (such as items letting you hit things harder). but even magical paint is the wrong slot for that.

Debby

[Just to Browse]

It does that because

it's all one big placebo

This is the big deal here. I think there is a place in the fantasy world for the idea that if you believe in something hard enough it becomes reality.

Instead of making war paint a consumable, I recommend making it a permanent magic item. Like you've got a magic tub of warpaint that refreshes once a day, so you can paint yourself every morning and get a small bonus to something. Then you could have +1 warpaint, +2 warpaint, etc.

My only problem is that the morale bonus would stack, so you'd need to have it take up... some other sort of benefit.

[Debihuman]

Placebos don't work on somebody ELSE. If you take a placebo, it works on YOU so I can see you getting a +1 to hit but I fail to see how a placebo make it hurt someone else more.

So if you put on warpaint, does the guy that you're hitting get a chance to disbelieve the warpaint? If you've faced orcs with warpaint before and have a higher intelligence than the orc wearing the warpaint, why should the placebo work on you? It's not a magical effect after all.


Debby

[johnswiftwood]

Placebos don't work on somebody ELSE. If you take a placebo, it works on YOU so I can see you getting a +1 to hit but I fail to see how a placebo make it hurt someone else more.

So if you put on warpaint, does the guy that you're hitting get a chance to disbelieve the warpaint? If you've faced orcs with warpaint before and have a higher intelligence than the orc wearing the warpaint, why should the placebo work on you? It's not a magical effect after all.


Debby

it makes the user think they can hit harder

[johnswiftwood]

it makes the user think they can hit harder

the paint that is

[Kornaki]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysterical_strength

If this is a thing in real life, it definitely makes sense that getting super pumped about combat gives you the ability to literally hit things harder.

It would probably be cleaner to just say that the warpaint gives you the ability to rage, or if you already have rage improves your rage in some way. That way you don't get caster classes cheesing it and you don't have to worry about stacking issues etc. I like the concept a lot, I might steal some version of it for my game

[Debihuman]

1.The user thinks he hits harder but that doesn't mean the recipient thinks he hits harder.

As for hysterical strength makes a certain amount of sense.
"Hysterical strength can result in torn muscles and damaged joints. This, in addition to high lactic acid production, etc."

In better game terms means the warpaint would give you +1 morale bonus to Intimidate (for as long as the paint is worn) and you gain a temporary +1 circumstance bonus to attack and damage for 1d4 rounds but are fatigued for the same amount of time afterwards.

If you make it a circumstance bonus to attack, it can stack with other bonuses such as rage.

Debby

[Rephath]

The placebo and nocebo effects are powerful, and if D&D is accurate to how medicine worked before, say, 1800, then that's all the heal skill is, doctors acting on unreliable information that greatly accelerates the healing process. Can you get stronger by the placebo effect? Absolutely. Can the placebo effect reduce damage you take? Yeah. Can the nocebo effect cause an enemy to lose more blood because he thinks something will hurt worse? Certainly.

The body responds to the mind, and it is capable of a lot of things that you have no conscious control over. If you disagree, go out right now and punch a tree as hard as you can. You can't do it. Your body will pull the punch and you won't hit at anywhere near your full potential.

[Just to Browse]

Debby, the point of that link isn't that warpaint can be awkwardly modeled based on something in real life, it's that there is a precedent for people doing better when they believe they can. Thus it's believable for the user to get +1 to hit and damage with warpaint.

A flat bonus from warpaint is fine, but I also like the rage mechanic. Having a magic item force you to undergo fatigue for only a +1 to hit and damage on a weird battle-mediated timer is not something we should do.

[Ashtagon]

Use one or more of the following ways to restrict the usage of the warpaint:

* It only works for those with orcish blood.
* It only works if you are wearing no armour.
* It only works if you worship one of a specific set of deities (eg. the orcish pantheon).

Don't tie it to having low Intelligence. That's just stupid.

[Debihuman]

Debby, the point of that link isn't that warpaint can be awkwardly modeled based on something in real life, it's that there is a precedent for people doing better when they believe they can. Thus it's believable for the user to get +1 to hit and damage with warpaint.

A flat bonus from warpaint is fine, but I also like the rage mechanic. Having a magic item force you to undergo fatigue for only a +1 to hit and damage on a weird battle-mediated timer is not something we should do.

Then it should be a magical item and not a non-magical item. The problem is that the effects are magical nature. You don't suddenly gain extra strength to hit someone and do extra damage because you have paint on your face unless that is a magical effect.

Orcish Warpaint is a nifty idea, the problem then becomes how long does it take to apply and how long does it last?

If wearing the warpaint makes the recipient feel more powerful then the +1 morale boost to hit makes sense.

Conversely, how does the warpaint affect anyone else? Anyone looking at someone wearing the warpaint should take a -1 morale penalty to hit. Sadly, that was never an option.

What I fail to see is how non-magical warpaint allows you to do more damage.

Furthermore, a bonus to hit doesn't have to be accompanied with a bonus to damage. It sounds like the original post gave you a choice of which effect takes place:

The comma in the original post is misleading because it could mean "and" or it could mean "or." Since you only get one defensive choice, it seems you should only get one offensive choice as well.

You pick one of the following: "+1 Morale boost, to hit, to damage, or to defense of your choice. (AC, Fortitude, Reflex, or Will)."
It reads like a Chinese menus Pick 1 from Column A or Pick 1 from Column B.

While I can appreciate the diversity of the item, that +1 morale bonus has to be applied before going to battle (putting on during battle could be difficult). As a result, you have to decide which effect you want before you know which you'll need the most. In theory, I like the options, in practice, odds of making the wrong choice are 5 in 6. Those are pretty terrible odds.

Debby

[Zombimode]

It's come to my attention that orcs are very similar to Celtic and Maori warriors in terms of culture,So I decided to create a rule to emphasize that

Orcish warpaint, intelligence must be lower than 15 to use, may be equipped up to 10 times,cannot reverse chosen effects, 25gp per body part .(head,arm,leg,ect)

+1 Morale boost, to hit, to damage, or to defense of your choice. (AC, Fortitude, Reflex, or Will.)

Just so you know: if your intention is that a single application will provide the bonus you detailed any further applications are wasted. Reason: morale bonuses don't stack.

[Rolep]

Then it should be a magical item and not a non-magical item. The problem is that the effects are magical nature. You don't suddenly gain extra strength to hit someone and do extra damage because you have paint on your face unless that is a magical effect.

But the placebo effect is:
a) Real
b) NON-Magical

You truly believe that you will cause your foe a more grievous injury because you will hit harder, therefore you cause your foe a more grievous injury. Bonus to damage makes perfect sense, because damage is based on the attacker, not the target.

[Debihuman]

"The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in health or behavior not attributable to a medication or invasive treatment that has been administered." Getting a +1 morale check to hit someone or do them damage is neither "health" nor "behavior. " If it were health, you'd gain a hit point. If it were behavior, you would gain a bonus to a skill. However, this gives you a morale boon, which is not physical bonus.

Debby

[johnswiftwood]

Okay i've revised the rule a little

as per boost nothing has really changed but the morale boost is now a simple non magical boost

when the paint is found to be non magical the boosts disappear completely ,meaning you wasted time/money on them

however you can have a shaman bless the warpaint for various effects added on to the now magical base effects (ie +5 fire resistance,+1d4 fire damage on crit ect) also you can increase the warpaint's bonuses via blessing as well,for instance,you can increase your right arms +1 attack bonus to +3 should you go on a quest that the dm sees fit for your characters level compared to the enhancement

[johnswiftwood]

Okay i've revised the rule a little

as per boost nothing has really changed but the morale boost is now a simple non magical boost

when the paint is found to be non magical the boosts disappear completely ,meaning you wasted time/money on them

however you can have a shaman bless the warpaint for various effects added on to the now magical base effects (ie +5 fire resistance,+1d4 fire damage on crit ect) also you can increase the warpaint's bonuses via blessing as well,for instance,you can increase your right arms +1 attack bonus to +3 should you go on a quest that the dm sees fit for your characters level compared to the enhancement

also you can still use light armor with this item,so long as you describe it as revealing the paint,for instance you can use leather straps and buckles or a leather vest,but not a full leather chest piece

[Debihuman]

How about this:

Orcish Warpaint: Orcish warpaint comes in case containing six 1-ounce containers each with a different color. The containers hold enough for 3 applications of each color. It takes a full-round action to apply the war paint. When the warpaint is applied, the wearer gains a +1 morale bonus to one of the following: to hit, to damage, AC, to Fort saves, to Ref saves, and to Will saves. The bonus lasts until the warpaint is removed (a standard action) or until it comes in contact with a liquid, in which case the warpaint immediately runs off the wearer's face. It cannot be worn in the rain. Non-orcs, except half-orcs, orogs and those with orc bloodlines, gain no benefit from wearing the warpaint. Only one color at a time may be worn. Wearing more than one color negates the effects. The secret to making orcish warpaint is known only to orcs. Standard orcish warpaint costs 50 gp. However, an orc shaman may bless the warpaint and add magical enhancements at additional cost.

Debby

[johnswiftwood]

See my revisions. It's a full item now, non-magical and matches your first premise.

Making a magical item will cost a lot more. see my further revision.

Debby

yeah there was a problem with that,different tribes have different 'paint' some tribes use branding other use scarring,others use natural dyes witch permanently stain the painted on person,plus these 'paint' jobs must be done by a shaman

[Debihuman]

yeah there was a problem with that,different tribes have different 'paint' some tribes use branding other use scarring,others use natural dyes witch permanently stain the painted on person,plus these 'paint' jobs must be done by a shaman

Now you're just adding crap to be difficult. Being tattooed or scarred is not what anyone (other than you) would call "warpaint". While different tribes might use different colors or paint different designs on their faces, it doesn't make sense than a orc couldn't apply his or her own warpaint. Are you suggesting that a shaman has to be present for the item to work? That's making it way too difficult. Who walks around with a personal shaman in tow?

Debby

[johnswiftwood]

Now you're just adding crap to be difficult. Being tattooed or scarred is not what anyone (other than you) would call "warpaint". While different tribes might use different colors or paint different designs on their faces, it doesn't make sense than a orc couldn't apply his or her own warpaint. Are you suggesting that a shaman has to be present for the item to work? That's making it way too difficult. Who walks around with a personal shaman in tow?

Debby

well this is just how i run the item though.my guys liked it so i thought i'd share it and a few people would help tweak it.and i make mistakes i left a few things out so yeah you're right on that one,but i'll try my best to explain

no a shaman doesn't have to be present for the war paint to work.only to paint the one using the item,secondly this item was meant to act as a flavor based armor,so no wash offs,also celts wore nothing but paint in the belief it would deflect arrows when it was nothing more than simple blue (or orange) paint