Should I fireball the paladin?

[Matrix_Walker]

You're the Paladin?
You do realize that you are in complete control over whether or not your character is in a position that best suits where to place a fireball, right?

Wherever that place is, don't stand there.

I would think that would be near the opponents.

If a PC is fireballing party members indiscriminately when they could place the shot in such a way to avoid hitting allies, that is clearly a problem with the caster.

I'm astonished anyone can support the position of "I like hitting the ally because it definitely does more damage when he is included".

[KorvinStarmast]

Think outside the Box a bit.

Have your party cleric get the two platinum rings and cast warding bond on the Paladin.
Resistance helps.

Warding Bond
Components: V, S, M (a pair of platinum rings worth at least 50 gp each, which you and the target must wear for the duration) Duration: 1 hour
This spell wards a willing creature you touch and creates a mystic connection between you and the target until the spell ends. While the target is within 60 feet of you, it gains a +1 bonus to AC and saving throws, and it has resistance to all damage. Also, each time it takes damage, you take the same amount of damage. The spell ends if you drop to 0 hit points or if you and
the target become separated by more than 60 feet. It also ends if the spell is cast again on either of the connected creatures.

Keep the cleric well supplied with healing pots.

Alternatively, if as Squiddish says the Wizard player is just being sloppy, then Don't Tank for the Wizard for one fight. Let a few mooks through who knock wiz down to 0 HP, then heal him after the fight.
Do that once, to make a point.
After that, you guys need a serious lesson in team work: collectively.

[Millstone85]

Wherever that place is, don't stand there.

Once the group has adopted the good-luck-charm logic, that place is pretty much wherever the paladin is standing. And by your logic, that's okay because the paladin's past actions made him appear as a good-luck charm.

But again, it turns out the OP was joking, so I don't know what the real problem, if any, even is.

[Demonslayer666]

You're the Paladin?
You do realize that you are in complete control over whether or not your character is in a position that best suits where to place a fireball, right?

Wherever that place is, don't stand there.

You're the mage?

You do realize that you are in complete control over the spell you cast, and where you place an AoE spell, right?

Wherever that place is, if it includes a party member, don't land it there.

[Vaz]

This is garbage.
He doesn't like it, so you probably shouldn't do it?

It's the luck of the dice. It's a game.
If he doesn't like it, maybe he should not place himself in the exact area of effect of where that fireball is going to be placed.... every single time. He dumped his Dex. He chose to ride a squishy mount into the fray. He placed himself and his mount in a position to get blasted.
Those were all his choices.
He can deal with it or go to his safe space.

'Hey guys, I'm the main tank/dps of the group but I can't do the job properly without the ******** sorcerer fireballing me, what do?'

"Kill him in sleep, rape and murder his family, salt the ****ing earth".

PSA; If anyone's not caught on yet, don't listen to DivisiblebyZero. Like, as a general rule, but especially here.

[Citan]

In our group we often need every bit of extra damage so high damage roles are VERY valuable.

However I've noticed a trend, whenever we cast fireball and the paladin is within it's AoE the fireball deals way more damage than normal (like 10 extra points). This has happened multiple times to the point where I'm CONVINCED that the dice are extra lucky if the the paladin is a victim of friendly fire. This trend also occurs with other AoE spells like cone of cold.

Now our paladin doesn't like being fireballed (mainly because he dumped dexterity and his horse tends to be turned to BBQ) and wants us to stop fireballing him. However the math doesn't lie and we need every bit of extra damage. How can I convince the paladin's player to let us fireball him to appease the dice gods?

EDIT: I was told that the tag wasn't obvious so I'll repeat, this is a purely sarcastic post.

Fireball him MWHAHAHAHAHA!

More seriously: fireball him, probably?
Confer Nick's post at the start of the thread.
Also convince him to take Shield Master, would help much. Or have someone from the party cast Protection from Energy. Or agree with DM to find a way to get a Nature Cleric NPC who would be dedicated to using Bless on Paladin along with its "grant resistance as reaction" ability.
Or have any Cleric cast Warding Bond (after all, he should not be the only one suffering for the group XD).
Or go on a quest to find a fire-resistant armor.
Or have him take Magic Initiate for 1/day Absorb Elements (unless this situation happens more often, in which case I understand him) or take any dip into Wizard or Druid (sad thing is MADness) to get it more often.
Worst case, just warn him early enough so he can unmount his ride and make it run towards safety (total DM houserule kingdom I'd say, otherwise too boring to set -Ready action and such- and still high risk -enemies could totally slay the horse that runs by them).
Etc etc...

Basically his reaction is totally legitimate, so until you found a viable and durable solution you should refrain from fireballing with him in the middle until it's really a desperate situation.
At the same time, I think it should be really not that difficult to find a working solution (as long as you DON'T take the Elemental Adept feat obviously XD).

Good luck ;)

'Hey guys, I'm the main tank/dps of the group but I can't do the job properly without the ******** sorcerer fireballing me, what do?'

"Kill him in sleep, rape and murder his family, salt the ****ing earth".

PSA; If anyone's not caught on yet, don't listen to DivisiblebyZero. Like, as a general rule, but especially here.

Agreed, a fortiori when reading this under... XD

No. It's the Paladin rushing in and get surrounded (which is actually doing his job in some sense) because he wants to use his toys, and then complaining about other people using their own toys.
He wants to play with his own toys, but he doesn't want to let the casters play with theirs, even though he created a great situation for them do do so, and them doing so would help a lot more than his couple of attacks would.
He's being selfish.

So, the guy is going into the melee, as fast as possible to create the front line as far as possible from the squishies, he's trying as hard as he can to aggro people to 1) limit the amount of attacks directed towards friends 2) improve the potential of any AOE... So basically he is risking his own life for the sake of the whole party...
And he's being selfish just because he basically asks his teammates to time their AOE to let him get to safety first?
I have no words to describe your mentality... XD
The most hilarious (or sad) part of your posts though is this...

Yes, it is a team game.
So maybe the Paladin should think of the team and wait one single round so the caster can do his cool thing to benefit the team before the Pally rushes in and tries to do his less effective thing.
It certainly is a team game. But the Pally isn't playing it that way. He wants to be the Pally Show. If not, he'd have no problem waiting one danged second so the caster could make things easier for him.
He's making it harder on the entire team, and then complaining about it. He's complaining about a problem that he created.

The OP didn't mention at all any problem of Pally "playing solo" or being otherwise self-centered. There are numerous situations in which, even if a player was actually careful, he could still end in a situation in which pulling away is difficult or outright impossible. Or just many situations in which in turn X the frontline situation seems under control by the melee ally and in turn Y **** happened and AOE becomes the seemingly best situation, without it being the fault of anyone...

[Corran]

....as long as you DON'T take the Elemental Adept feat obviously XD).

I see what you did there....

[furby076]

This is garbage.
He doesn't like it, so you probably shouldn't do it?

It's the luck of the dice. It's a game.
If he doesn't like it, maybe he should not place himself in the exact area of effect of where that fireball is going to be placed.... every single time. He dumped his Dex. He chose to ride a squishy mount into the fray. He placed himself and his mount in a position to get blasted.
Those were all his choices.
He can deal with it or go to his safe space.

Its very simple. If the paladin has to keep telling the wizard to stop attacking him. Then when it doesn't stop, the paladin has the right to retaliate. I would mop the floor with our spellcasters if they thought it was fun to keep blasting my character. That says nothing of the fact you are risking killing another players character...willfully and repeatedly. Find a new spell, or if you are a sorc, then shape spell

[furby076]

Yes, it is a team game.
So maybe the Paladin should think of the team and wait one single round so the caster can do his cool thing to benefit the team before the Pally rushes in and tries to do his less effective thing.
It certainly is a team game. But the Pally isn't playing it that way. He wants to be the Pally Show. If not, he'd have no problem waiting one danged second so the caster could make things easier for him.
He's making it harder on the entire team, and then complaining about it. He's complaining about a problem that he created.

"I min-maxed my character and then I ran into the exact situation where that min-maxing is a problem. Boo-friggin-hoo! You guys need to stop doing your thing so I can do mine!"
Cry me a damn river.

Or maybe the baddies decided to swarm the paladin. If the paladin wasnt there, maybe they would be spread out, or swarming the wizard. A good paladin shields the wizard. Honestly, if we were in the same group, after the second request, id let you experience, first hand, what nova feels like. Goodluck surviving that

[furby076]

This is like, the definition of metagame. Also: being an exceptionally bad friend.

Absolutely right. Who, in their right mind, would say "how about i napalm my friends?". Then which friend would say "no worries little buddy". Its metagaming, and being a jerk of a friend.

id just walk over to the wizard, and take a dump on him with my sword.

[furby076]

I liken this to MMO Kiters.
They think their thing is awesome, and they never shut up about how awesome they are and how much DPS they can do, and how no one ever kills anything when they're around.
The fact is that everyone hates them because they aggro everything in a mile radius and kite it around and no one kills anything because no one can get any attacks in because the mobs are chasing the garbage Kiter.

Your Paladin here is the melee version. He's selfish. If he weren't, he'd understand how to avoid the thing he hates.

What? Kiting is am incredibly important mmo skill. Heck, in WoW, with the blackwing instance, you needed like 5 great kiters to keep specific creatures off the rest of the raid.

Like the rest of your assessment, in this post, you are wrong

[Corran]

Spoiler: Squiddish, dont open this.

Show

I will agree with everyone saying that fireballing the paladin is a bad idea.
Cast hypnotic pattern instead!
Fireball only deals damage, hypnotic patten will take away whole turns from the paladin.
Yes, the paladin has a better wis save, but that right there is your excuse!
Use heightened spell metamagic in secret (the DM secretly rolls the second roll; if the paladin argues, then it's between him and the DM, you are out of the loop; whistle.... also bribe the DM to not reveal what's really going on).

@Furby: Right next to ''reply with quote'' there is a similar symbol with an added ''+'', that will let you reply to more than one posts at the same time if you ''hit'' all the posts that you want to answer to with it.

[furby076]

Spoiler: Squiddish, dont open this.

Show

I will agree with everyone saying that fireballing the paladin is a bad idea.
Cast hypnotic pattern instead!
Fireball only deals damage, hypnotic patten will take away whole turns from the paladin.
Yes, the paladin has a better wis save, but that right there is your excuse!
Use heightened spell metamagic in secret (the DM secretly rolls the second roll; if the paladin argues, then it's between him and the DM, you are out of the loop; whistle.... also bribe the DM to not reveal what's really going on).

@Furby: Right next to ''reply with quote'' there is a similar symbol with an added ''+'', that will let you reply to more than one posts at the same time if you ''hit'' all the posts that you want to answer to with it.

Sorry, normally i use multiquote...but on my tablet its hard for me to navigate, i will try in the future :)

[sir_argo]

Absolutely yes... even if there's no monsters around.

[SirTodd]

No. It's the Paladin rushing in and get surrounded (which is actually doing his job in some sense) because he wants to use his toys, and then complaining about other people using their own toys.
He wants to play with his own toys, but he doesn't want to let the casters play with theirs, even though he created a great situation for them do do so, and them doing so would help a lot more than his couple of attacks would.
He's being selfish.

~laughing~
So you shouldn't complain then when the rogue sneak attacks you from behind after your fireball. After all he wants to play with his toys too.

[Corran]

~laughing~
So you shouldn't complain then when the rogue sneak attacks you from behind after your fireball. After all he wants to play with his toys too.

Well, this is not the same thing. The rogue can still sneak attack enemies, as long as the paladin is within 5 feet of them. But if the wizard drops the paladin unconscious, and then it's the rogue's turn, then I guess the rogue would have every right to sneak attack the wizard in order to roll the sneak attack damage. Unless of course he had an inspiration point. Then the right thing would be to use it and attack the enemies for one more turn, before turning against the wizard.

ps: Though a smart rogue would just run the moment the paladin falls (or even before that).

[D.U.P.A.]

Friendly fire is never a good idea, only in extreme of cases, when they are surrounded by minions. Otherwise, most often enemies are more durable than PCs and unless there is no less that 4 enemies around the ally, provided they have no special resistances and high dexterity saves, then you should not even think about it. It ends badly 90% of times. Especially with classes like Paladin. Raging bear totem Barbarians and Monks with evasion can be a bit more acceptable, but still should be used with last resort. Wizard whose tools and toys are only a fireball is just a bad Wizard. If all you want is throw fireballs, you can go Sorcerer, Light Cleric or Fiend Warlock. With Sorcerer you can exclude your ally with safe spell metamagic regardless of bloodline.

[Mhl7]

If you are the Wizard: Blast the Paladin! Then explain to him that, thanks to your extensive knowledge of the arcane power, you now for sure that its rightful fury acts as a channeler for the power of the elemental plane of fire and without him being in the range of the fireball the same effect cannot be achieved. I suggest to explain all of this from the safety of your pre-cast fly spell, just in case.

If you are the Sorcerer: Blast the Paladin and use your high charisma to convince him that he was the wizard, not you! I suggest to wait till he gives you his back before casting the spell.

Also, make sure that the cleric keeps healing him up, so that you can enjoy burning him more and more.

Don't forget to ask your DM to enforce some sort of lingering injuries rule. The paladin will sure be terribly scarred by now from all those explosions. Repeatedly make fun of him for his hideous appearance. Bonus points if you convince the DM that he should also suffer a penalty to the Charisma because he is so ugly.

[Armored Walrus]

I think you should not only fireball the paladin when he's in a group of mooks, but if you happen to be higher in the initiative order than the paladin, you should ready a fireball, centered on the paladin, with a trigger of casting it whenever he engages with more than one enemy. You don't want a chance to do optimal damage to slip by just because you happen to be quicker on the draw.

[Sigreid]

I think you should not only fireball the paladin when he's in a group of mooks, but if you happen to be higher in the initiative order than the paladin, you should ready a fireball, centered on the paladin, with a trigger of casting it whenever he engages with more than one enemy. You don't want a chance to do optimal damage to slip by just because you happen to be quicker on the draw.

Since it's important to practice tactics, I recommend fireballing him when he's asleep as well.

Edit: is it just fireball that benefits? I think you need to test lightning bolt, cone of cold, Cloud Kill, etc.

[Ninja-Radish]

"Ray, when someone asks if you should Fireball the Paladin, you say YES!!"

[2D8HP]

To Fireball or not to Fireball?

When is Fireball ever not the answer?

Need a light? Fireball!


It's a little cold? Fireball!

Time to pay the bar tab? Fireball!

I think it's safe to infer that Fireball is always the answer.

When in doubt...

Fireball!

[GPS]

To Fireball or not to Fireball?

When is Fireball ever not the answer?

Need a light? Fireball!


It's a little cold? Fireball!

Time to pay the bar tab? Fireball!

I think it's safe to infer that Fireball is always the answer.

When in doubt...

Fireball!

I like this guy!

[Sigreid]

To Fireball or not to Fireball?

When is Fireball ever not the answer?

Need a light? Fireball!


It's a little cold? Fireball!

Time to pay the bar tab? Fireball!

I think it's safe to infer that Fireball is always the answer.

When in doubt...

Fireball!

There are few problems that cannot be solved through the liberal application of Fireball!

[NecroDancer]

There are few problems that cannot be solved through the liberal application of Fireball!

If you want to get fancy you can always try a lightning bolt.

[Squiddish]

Just a couple notes:
1. I've been on the receiving end of a hypnotic pattern before, but I now have immunity to charm and so does my horse (aura of devotion).
2. The wizard is fine, he's an evocations wizard. The light cleric is the problem.
3. He recently received a taste of his own medicine when he was caught in a cone of cold by a fleeing party member.

[psychopomp23]

I'm playing a Paladin in one of my games and I would totally let them fireball me if it meant killing off a bunch of baddies! FOR THE GREATER GOOD!

[Tetrasodium]

It depends.

• can you get a large chunk of the baddies by targeting a few feet away? do that if so.. or is it a significant difference like getrting all three trolls instead of just one? burn him if so because those trolls could hurt more, esoecially if there is almost no chance for the paladin to fail the save.
• is the paladin distracting some dangerous foes while giving you the chance to squash a group of mooks elsewhere?... burn the mooks & let the paladin deal with that nasty baddy for a couple turns?... burn those mooks & worry about the elemental/beholder/whatever laterwhen the paladin won't need to scrape you off the flat of a mook's mace.

A while back I was playing a moon druid who did wildshape:giant frog to swim down & investigate something shiny in the water. almost immediately two things happened, I was attacked by a water elemental-like "It's not an elemental" & a bunch of cultists rushed out from some rocks further down the lakeshore.

Being in an amphibious form capable of breathing air or water equally well, the most dangerous part of the not an elemental was nullified & my ability to heal myself was able to pretty trivially keep up with the rather poor damage it was doing. so poor that I tried to attack it back more often by far than heal myself. In spite of the fact that I was saying that I'm doing fine & not really worried, about half the group broke off the mooks (including a barbearian) to shoot arrows at the thing trying to drown my amphibious giant toad. When it was over, I think I burned one..maybe... two first level spell slots healing my giant toad form I just dropped to full hp base form so I could cast a bunch of spells healing the squishies & such. There are plenty f times when the best thing someone in a party can do is to ignore a dangerous looking situation or to make one individual party member's life momentarily difficult.

Moral of the st

[Pex]

Spoiler: Squiddish, dont open this.

Show

I will agree with everyone saying that fireballing the paladin is a bad idea.
Cast hypnotic pattern instead!
Fireball only deals damage, hypnotic patten will take away whole turns from the paladin.
Yes, the paladin has a better wis save, but that right there is your excuse!
Use heightened spell metamagic in secret (the DM secretly rolls the second roll; if the paladin argues, then it's between him and the DM, you are out of the loop; whistle.... also bribe the DM to not reveal what's really going on).

@Furby: Right next to ''reply with quote'' there is a similar symbol with an added ''+'', that will let you reply to more than one posts at the same time if you ''hit'' all the posts that you want to answer to with it.

If the paladin is at least a 7th level Oath of Devotion this tactic will work quite well.

[furby076]

There are few problems that cannot be solved through the liberal application of Fireball!

Can you twin spell a fireball? How about hightened fireball followed by quicken fireball