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2011-08-09, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-08-09, 11:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
This has been mentioned elsewhere, but guns jamming on a natural 1/2 means that even with reload shenanigans, guns actually get worse the more attacks you have rather than better, since every shot you take is an increased chance of the gun jamming.
Really, I don't see much going for guns beyond "they're guns".
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2011-08-10, 12:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
Gunslingers can clear a misfire condition with a move action as a class feature or you can just use Gunsmith feat (a free feat Gunslingers get) to clear it with craft skill (no check required) takes a few hrs (1-4) though.
Mysterious Stranger Archetype can ignore a roll of Misfire Cha uses/day.
Magic guns can get reliable (+1) to reduce total misfire by 1 or Greater Reliable (+3) to get total midfire reduced by 4.
Remember the gun is only broken condition if misfire: you can still use it.
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2011-08-10, 01:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
The nicest part of guns is being able to make touch attacks. It will make an excellent non-spell weapon for an arcane trickster.
A fighter 4/rogue3 with snap shot and point blank master can ( I think) flank with a gun in melee and get sneak attack. Definitely late game, probably take a dip in Master Spy for another 1d6.Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2011-08-10 at 01:09 AM.
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2011-08-10, 01:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
The 'ranged touch attack for damage as your main class feature' thing immediately brings to mind the Warlock. Is the Gunslinger as good as the Warlock? What features make them different?
Last edited by FMArthur; 2011-08-10 at 01:36 AM.
- Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
- Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.
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2011-08-10, 02:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
I have a question for the owners of ultimate combat, is it OGL?
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2011-08-10, 02:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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2011-08-10, 02:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
Unlike Warlock you can enhance guns as magic weapons.
You can gain multiple attacks/rd (using rapid reload/paper cartiridges/Rapid shot/Twfing/Haste/etc).
Sadly, Warlocks can get Flight at 6th and Gunslingers are largely mundane (they can cast Knock with their gun though by shooting the lock, it specificlly says it is unlocked. Mostly for style)
Unlike Warlock you get all Grit abilties you qualify for free, no choices from a menu (so more at every interval new Grit abilities appears).
At 7th, he can flat foot a dude by missing on purpose (I guess if you are helping a rogue ally to sneak attack).
At higher levels:
They can aim at body parts (Arms auto disarm, Head conuses 1 rd, Legs Knock enemy prone, etc get benefit), cause bleeding (remember you need a heal check or healing magic to stop bleeding, nothing else will help even regeneration/Fast heal), and even a save/die (Fort save) which is rare for Pathfinder (most old save/dies because damage instead).
About the bleeding... they can cause 1 Con Bleed damage (I have no idea what this is supposed to mean)... does that work as normal bleed? Do they lose 1 Con per rd till heal skill or heal spell?
The class needs some clarification.Last edited by Starbuck_II; 2011-08-10 at 02:31 AM.
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2011-08-10, 02:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-08-10, 02:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
Outside of firearms being comparable to eldritch blast because of the ranged touch attack, they're not very similar. Listing the differences would be tantamount to cutting and pasting their class entries (not ok, since UC hasn't even hit most book shelves and i'm pretty sure complete arcane isn't OGL). Suffice to say, I think the warlock's class abilities are notably superior.
As for gun vs. eldirtch blast, my op fu and math probably aren't up to the task, but I think a level 20 gunslinger will crush a warlock on raw damage to a single target, because of its higher base damage dice (d10 [rifle] or d8 [revolver] vs d6), additional damage from weapon enchantment (which can also eliminate the misfire chance), higher critical multiplier (x4), iterative attacks, full BAB (not that it matters much at that point vs touch AC), and getting to add Dex modifier in damage to each shot. That being said, the various secondary abilities that a warlock can add to their eldritch blast are (just by looking and having never played one) likely better than those a gunslinger can get from its called shot abilities.
So TL:DR, warlock probably > gunslinger, but it's not a runaway.Last edited by Bhaakon; 2011-08-10 at 02:58 AM.
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2011-08-10, 02:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
OGL, but as per some unofficial agreement, it doesn't go up to the PFSRD until at least two weeks after the public release of the .pdf. Or at least that's how I understood it.
It's the kind of request where if you deny them, you're, like, a seriously uncool dude, man. Like totally.
Indeed. There's the Musketeer Archetype. It gains a Pistol or Musket (and proficiencies to use them), and a scaling class feature to compliment their use, as well as Rapid Reload (musket or pistol). These class features completely replace the Mount & Expert Training class features (at all appropriate levels).
Edit:
On the other hand, there is still no Warlock class for Pathfinder. Which still sorta irks me. I'm sure they could do something awesome with it.
And yes, it has been explained to me that Complete Arcane isn't OGL, which is likely the reason Paizo have pussied out from creating a Warlock class, even though it in my opinion could be argued that Warlock is a rather generic, run-of-the-mill fantasy concept.Last edited by Luckmann; 2011-08-10 at 04:12 AM.
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2011-08-10, 04:20 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2008
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2011-08-10, 04:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
I'd like to see something in-between the 3.5 and 4e Warlock, Pathfinderized. Sorta like how the Sorcerer choose bloodlines, but the Warlock would obviously choose pacts. There are so many things in the multiverse that is willing to grant you such awesome powers in exchange for one measly soul...
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2011-08-10, 04:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
And yes, it has been explained to me that Complete Arcane isn't OGL, which is likely the reason Paizo have pussied out from creating a Warlock class, even though it in my opinion could be argued that Warlock is a rather generic, run-of-the-mill fantasy concept.
I thought the alchemist was the Pathfinder-ized Warlock. More-so than the gunslinger, at least.
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2011-08-10, 04:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-08-10, 06:51 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
The bombs are similar to eldritch blasts.
Just like they didn't create a duskblade?
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2011-08-10, 07:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
Maybe so, but what I said was that it doesn't feel very Warlock-y.
Yes, well, I think they'd have to stick a bit too close for comfort to Warlocks to do a proper knock-off under another name.
No idea what they'd call it, without it sounding stupid, either.
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2011-08-10, 07:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
I'm pretty sure they can make a class called warlock, and they can make a class that uses invocations, but they can't make a class that is both.
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2011-08-10, 12:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2011
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
I see it now...
Celestial: Hey, we need another soul in the celestial army. I'll give you awesome powers. The price will be that your soul, with all the powers your had in life, will be conscripted into the celestial army, and you'll have to fight fiends a lot.
Human: well, it's better than selling my soul to devils. Deal!Avatar of George the Dragon Slayer, from the upcoming Indivisible!
My Steam profile
Warriors and Wuxia, Callos_DeTerran's ToB setting
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2011-08-10, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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2011-08-10, 12:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
In an upcoming game I'm about to make my first (non-theoretical) Synthesist Summoner. The plan was "pretending to be an angel, including to the party," and this... I think I'm stealing it. I got approval to just go aasimar, but a half-elf that sold his soul to the upper planes could be a ton of fun to play (especially if he started out neutral...)
tl;dr - YOINK!
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2011-08-10, 02:46 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
I like to think that the celestials, just like Devils & Demons, are sorta split between Lawful & Chaotic, and that only the most humongous buttholes amongst the lawful celestials actively engages in things like this, dealing in mortal souls, peddling them about, striking deals, signing contracts & making pacts.
Sure, it's all for the greater good, but there's no way in hell you're getting out of this thing without having your soul flayed at least twice.
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2011-08-10, 03:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
To clarify:
Originally Posted by Gunsmithing FeatLast edited by Rixx; 2011-08-10 at 03:22 PM.
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2011-08-10, 04:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
I think that at low levels, a gunslinger can out perform any other ranged combatant, the problem is, as you reach higher levels, guns are less useful than bows and ranged touch attacks.
Also, I got a hold of an ultimate combat PDF.
Heres my evaluation so far.
Classes seem the same as the playtest versions comparing tables, I haven't done a proper check o exact wording and probably won't.
I'm rather dissapointed with the gun based archetypes.
I like the Cavalier's, apart from it loses the mount, not good.
You also get a situtational rapid reload when you make a challenge and at level 8 gain improved critical with your guns and a few other things.
Paladin:
Gains profiency with guns, loses profiency in medium and heavy armour, not really a big deal since you will likely have good dex.
You can smite with your gun with a deed, I don't want to go into much detail here.
Also, you can't have a mount, you have to become bonded to your gun with a few strings attached, namely restrictions on how you can enchant it.
And lastly at higher levels you get some grit for a deed.
Wizard:
You can get 1 or 2 guns and can shoto ranged touch attacks out your guns.
If you only choose to have one gun, your ranged touch attacks do triple damage on a 20.
Down side?
Your guns explode on a 1, a 2 or a 20.
Not good and no way of changing it.
Edit:
Also, just to excite the final fantasy fans, fighters have a dragoon archetype. Just saying.
Edit, Edit:
And Magus gets several archetypes.Last edited by Hazzardevil; 2011-08-10 at 04:24 PM.
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2011-08-10, 04:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
Originally Posted by Gunsmithing FeatWiki - Q&A - FB - LIn - Tw
d20r Compilation PDF - last updated 9.11.14
d20r: Spells (I-L) - d20r: Spells (H) - d20r: Spells (G) - d20r: Spells (F) - d20r: Spells (E) - d20r: Spells (D) - d20r: Wizard class
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2011-08-10, 04:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-08-10, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
Where is that listed in Pathfinder?
The craft skill doesn't say that: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/craft
But yeah, you could use lousy reload times by buying cheap ammo or bleeding gp by crafting 1/2 cost paper cartiridges.
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2011-08-10, 04:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
Hmm, I don't see that restriction anywhere in the Craft entry.
EDIT: Ninja'd!Last edited by Reverent-One; 2011-08-10 at 04:40 PM.
Thanks to Elrond for the Vash avatar.
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2011-08-10, 04:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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2011-08-10, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PF] Ultimate Combat released to subscribers
Your guns explode on a 1, a 2 or a 20.Last edited by Bhaakon; 2011-08-10 at 04:57 PM.