Are High Priests really high?

[falsedot]

I have always thought that it is unlikely that Durkula's plan is to kill everyone, as the high priests would be overwhelmingly more powerful, especially with bodyguards; but are we sure that this is true?

We know that when Durkon was little only the HP of Odin could cast Regeneration, a lvl7 spell. Assuming a downward trend ("at least these days"), it wouldnt be improbable that only the HPoO and Veldrina would be higher than lvl13.

A possible plan would be Durkula eliminating the HPoO first, in private, under the pretence of ressurection; that would be a fight against the HPoO, his bodyguards and Roy plus Belkar. It also opens the possibility of vamping HPoO, assuming that there is a charge left in the staff.

Then, from the northen pantheon we have seen Freya, Thor, Loki, maybe Surtur, Skadi and Hoder; that's 6 HPs plus 12 bodyguards. It could be that in a case of fighting the evil HPs will remain neutral so it drops to 4 HPs and 8 bodyguards (although it could be that not everyone brought two). Not too shabby if we assume they are level 10 with level 8 bodyguards.

Now I recognise that this is pure speculation; after so many years perhaps the HPs leveled up (although we know that Thor's died so it could be that he is very low level); Im just trying to think if there is a plausible scenario were Durkula could have a chance, that doesnt scream Hel Ex Machina. Thoughts?

[Peelee]

I guess it'd depend on what they're smoking.

[Kantaki]

I guess it'd depend on what they're smoking.

I think incense is the traditional choice there...

Anyway back on topic. I think that Sigdi was only talking about the dwarven lands when she said that only the HPoO could cast Regeneration.
Since we know that at least the High Priestess of Hodr is human and that Veldrina represents the Western Gods (not to mention an potential emissary from the south) we can conclude that not all High Priests will be from there. That means we can't make assumptions about their power-level based on her comment. It's entirely possible that the priests of other gods can match Durkula in power.

I too really doubt that the HPoHs plan involves violence at the Godsmoot. I don't see how that would help his mistress. In fact I'm pretty sure that a regularly occurring conclave between the servants of the various gods with their conflicting philosophies and alignments has rules in place to enforce a peaceful meeting. Otherwise good priest would gang up on evil ones or lawful priest on those that serve chaos. Or the other way around.

[D.One]

I guess it'd depend on what they're smoking.

LoL

After reading the title, I couldn't shove off the image of all the "high" priests in a disco party on the top of the mountain, Woodstock-style...

PS: Yeah, I know Woodstock and Disco are from different times. It's just how the "high high priests" images came...

[kgato503]

You bring up a good point. It may be possible that at least some of the high priests are lower level. However, like Kantaki said, I think there must be some agreement in place to stop any big violence from breaking out. Otherwise, I don't think the HPoH would be so calm about going in. Lets face it, he is an evil vampire going into a convention center full of High Priests that could potentially dust him in a minute, especially if they gang up on him. And that doesn't even cover the up to two bodyguards for each of those priests. Unless his whole plan is to get killed there (which it might be, now that I think of it, since a rules violation here might put Hel in a very advantageous situation, even if she would lose her one and only High Priest), he must be reasonably sure that he will survive.

HPoH's plan, now that I think about it, may involve filibustering, or other wise blocking voting that the High Priests of the other gods are trying to force through. Heck, he may even use this, or some other tactic, to try and get one of the other representatives to start trouble, in order to take advantage of the rules. One way or another, I feel like HPoH will be doing a bit of rules-lawyering in the near future.

PS: Yeah, I know Woodstock and Disco are from different times. It's just how the "high high priests" images came...

Hey, this is the world where dinosaurs are alive and well right along side humans and dragons, and we have ninjas in a (quasi-)medieval setting. I see no reason why disco and Woodstock could not have happened at the same time in the OotS universe. Heck, it may even be an annual thing.

[thereaper]

I've long suspected that this whole thing is just a way to get influence for Hel just by showing up. Like it somehow "legitimizes" Hel as an equal deity with equal pull.

[rodneyAnonymous]

I'm the high priest of... of... of something.

[littlebum2002]

Spoiler: Yes, they are

Show

[Gift Jeraff]

The High Priest of Loki is blazing it.

[Vinyadan]

Spoiler: OoPCs

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There is high power divine magic flying around, because Dorukan actively attempted resurrecting Lirian without having the body around. That's ninth level, I think. Of course, it needn't to be a priest. It could be an archivist, or some UMD, or some kind of wish, or extraplanars, or something else. A rainbow servant warmage who thinks text trumps table.

[Peelee]

We do know that the high priest of the Twelve Gods was at least level 13 (which would put him on par with the Order) and could possibly have been higher.

[Emanick]

Let's make a list of the high priests whom we've heard of, and whose minimum levels we know or can make a decent guess at:

Redcloak (level 17)
High Priest of the Twelve Gods (level 13-14, likely)
Malack (level 12, but probably would be higher if he weren't a vampire)
High Priest of Thor (?) that young Durkon wanted to cast Regeneration (level 13+, implied)
High Priest of Hel (level 14 + vampire)

It's possible I'm forgetting some characters.

It looks to me as if the average High Priest is at least level 13, and quite possibly higher. This seems consistent with what we've seen of the OOTSverse so far - characters capable of casting 7th level spells are rare but not terribly difficult to find, but the bottleneck narrows significantly afterwards.

Unrelatedly, I am delighted that this thread's title provoked the same initial reaction from other people that it did from me.

[jidasfire]

If Durkula is going after the high priests, it seems like the smartest thing for him to do would be to go after the weakest ones and work his way up. Not all high priests, as we have seen, are equal, but making any priest a vampire turns them that much more powerful. Eventually, if he's crafty enough in his conversions (though it may end up burning out that staff of his), his army would begin to outnumber and overpower any and all of the high priests, by which point he would no longer need to use subtlety and their power levels wouldn't matter.

It might not go this way, as Durkula was prophesied to bring death and destruction to the dwarven homelands, not the Godsmoot. On the other hand, he has to make a move of some sort, seeing as Roy's expecting him to be raised at this shindig and he won't be able to keep up appearances much longer without that happening.

[Darth Paul]

Certainly there could be minor gods whose "High Priest" is only 2nd or 3rd level, because he or she is the ONLY priest of that deity. I have always been fond of Sir Terry Pratchett's Discworld deity "Anoia, Goddess of Things that get Stuck in Drawers," whose high priestess also handled the affairs of 2 other deities part-time and whose "temple" was a rented room over a shop, IIRC.

Whether the priest of such a minor deity would be entitled to show up at the Moot is a different matter and probably a moot point for the purposes of this thread.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

There's really two ways to answer this question. 1) Yes, if you consider ~level 13 to be high. 2) Depends on what they brought to this "moot".

[Pyron]

Whether the priest of such a minor deity would be entitled to show up at the Moot is a different matter and probably a moot point for the purposes of this thread.

I would really like to see Shaman Vurkle, High Priest of Giggles, at the Moot.

[Reddish Mage]

If he could come then Elan should be there as the chief (and currently only) follower of Banjo.

[King of Nowhere]

if durkula wanted to kill the various high priests, it would make much more sense to go after them one by one, when they are alone. trying to kill them all when they are all together seems like the last thing you would want to do.

therefore

I've long suspected that this whole thing is just a way to get influence for Hel just by showing up. Like it somehow "legitimizes" Hel as an equal deity with equal pull.

i also believe so

[Mike Havran]

I've long suspected that this whole thing is just a way to get influence for Hel just by showing up. Like it somehow "legitimizes" Hel as an equal deity with equal pull.

This is also what I think. Hel has some evil plot going on, but legitimisation of her dogma seems to be a rational first step, especially since she has no other clerics save Durkula.

[Bad Wolf]

Any decent Cleric there should have max ranks in Knowledge (religion), which means he'd be outed as soon as he walked into the room.

EDIT: And since he's a Cleric who has a legit reason for being there, I'd guess he would be pretty safe from the other Clerics, but he'd lose the support of the party.

[ORione]

In Start of Darkness...

Spoiler

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... Redcloak became high priest the same day he was ordained. It was under unusual circumstances, but it shows that it's at least possible to be a high priest at a low level. I'm assuming here that a freshly ordained cleric would have one level in cleric.

[ti'esar]

In Start of Darkness...

Spoiler

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... Redcloak became high priest the same day he was ordained. It was under unusual circumstances, but it shows that it's at least possible to be a high priest at a low level. I'm assuming here that a freshly ordained cleric would have one level in cleric.

Spoiler: SoD

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That's a special case, though, because from what we know the High Priest of the Dark One is always the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle, regardless of his or her level.

[Peelee]

Any decent Cleric there should have max ranks in Knowledge (religion), which means he'd be outed as soon as he walked into the room.

EDIT: And since he's a Cleric who has a legit reason for being there, I'd guess he would be pretty safe from the other Clerics, but he'd lose the support of the party.

He'd be outed..... as a vampire? I'm afraid the others already know that. Or if you mean outed as an evil spirit in the drivers seat, we have already been shown that that is rare nowledge, and is by no means available to "any decent cleric."

[SirKazum]

He'd be outed..... as a vampire? I'm afraid the others already know that. Or if you mean outed as an evil spirit in the drivers seat, we have already been shown that that is rare nowledge, and is by no means available to "any decent cleric."

I think they mean outed as a priest of Hel, rather than Thor. Which might actually be the whole point of going to the Godsmoot.

[Emanick]

He'd be outed..... as a vampire? I'm afraid the others already know that. Or if you mean outed as an evil spirit in the drivers seat, we have already been shown that that is rare nowledge, and is by no means available to "any decent cleric."

I'd wager that most high priests do know how vampires work. A random gnome cleric did, after all and one would expect most of the highest-level clerics in the world to roll significantly higher on Knowledge (Religion) checks than s/he did.

[Bad Wolf]

Yeah, I meant outed as not actually being durkon. You think high priests would have more ranks then a random priest.

Spoiler: SoD

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That's a special case, though, because from what we know the High Priest of the Dark One is always the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle, regardless of his or her level.

Spoiler: SoD

Show

Also, everyone was dead. And I think the cloak gives him a couple levels of Cleric casting levels (like the shield of the sun or something in 3.5), as I think he casted a higher level spell right after putting it on.

[Peelee]

Yeah, I meant outed as not actually being durkon. You think high priests would have more ranks then a random priest.

And yet the vampire seems unconcerned with that possibility.

I'd wager that most high priests do know how vampires work.

I'll take that bet.

[Bad Wolf]

And yet the vampire seems unconcerned with that possibility.

Maybe because there's some sort of non-violence clause at the moot?

[Peelee]

Maybe because there's some sort of non-violence clause at the moot?

But as you pointed out, that would alert the other party members. I don't think the vampire is going to split from the party or try to take them all on so soon.

[Emperordaniel]

Didn't the Giant also say something about needing Skill Focus [Knowledge (Religion)] or something as well in order to have enough ranks to identify a vampire's dual-soul issue?