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2019-05-20, 11:51 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2015
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
The issue is that technology has radically increased what you can do with information that, decades ago, was almost universally agreed to be public information, which has caused folks to change how they think about the reasonable expectation of privacy. In the United States at least, your reasonable expectation of privacy was pretty much limited to your home, and certain specific public situations: your car, closed containers or concealed parts of your clothing, public restrooms, lockers, etc. In short, if you took steps to physically prevent others from overhearing or seeing something you wanted kept private, in a manner that you had the right to do, then it was reasonable for you to expect that your secrets remain secret.
The catch was that the individual had some minimal level of responsibility for their own privacy. If you didn't want people to see some document, then you keep it in your home, or in a suitcase, or in your pockets, and the law recognized that the government and private individuals shouldn't forcibly extract that document from you without a damn good reason. If you latched your bathroom stall behind you, someone shouldn't be crawling under the door to see what you're up to.
As technology changed, our expectations have as well, as has the law. We pretty much all agree that the same social norms that protect us from the guy crawling under the bathroom door should also protect us from hidden cameras in the same stall. However, this is the point where reasonable people start disagreeing on the line. Even within the United States, wire-tapping rules vary wildly. Some states believe that every party to a conversation needs to know about and consent--even if consent is demonstrated only by not leaving the conversation after realizing it's being recorded. Others only require that a single party knows about the recording, the general idea being that you have a reasonable expectation that a third-party nobody knows about shouldn't be eavesdropping on a conversation, but since a party to the conversation can share its substance anyway, having a recording doesn't make a huge difference.
Where people really disagree, and what I find troubling, is when people don't do anything to avoid being seen, heard, or recorded, but then they still expect privacy. I think this line of thinking has led to some good results: While I don't think anybody has the right to expect that when you leave your home, everyone else should pretend you're invisible and ignore what you're doing, I'm glad that the government doesn't have CCTV blanketing every public space.
However, I also think it's brought about a lot of laws and expectations where individuals essentially put their "private" activities out in public, but then expect the government or society to impose limits on how that information is used. Humans naturally like to gather, organize, and share information. While I agree that we should put reasonable limits on egregiously intrusive conduct, such as a guy following you around without your consent, video recording all of your public activities for a day, I find it troubling (not to mention a nightmare to enforce) to contemplate norms where you can see a guy you know doing something in public, and you're expected not to tell anyone what you saw, or use what you know about him to draw inferences about what he's doing.
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2019-05-20, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
Yeah tecunology chanhes things. Years ago taking a photo of your door would have been creepy because photos cost money and cameras were bulky so someone taking a photo of your front door way back then would have to be weirdly determined. But now photos are part of everyday life so it's no longer stalkerish
EDIT:
As for the front door specifically anyone who walks or drives by can see it.Last edited by Bohandas; 2019-05-20 at 12:43 PM.
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2019-05-20, 12:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
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2019-05-20, 12:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
The point is it's not creepy now because you don't have to go obsessively out of your way to do it. It's not a sign of obsession like it would've been back then
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2019-05-20, 01:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2018
- Gender
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
Meh. The basic rule of everything even vaguely connected to the internet is that within 24 hours of information being posted online, someone, somewhere, who shouldn't have access to it has access to it. People I've never heard of know far more intimate details about me than what my door looks like.
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2019-05-20, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
Hi, folks, OP here.
Just to clarify, I’m not asking for input about whether this is creepy or illegal. I’m just asking if anyone knows a way to opt out of it.
I found one internet article from about a year ago which insists it’s easy to opt out, and gives step-by-step instructions—but those instructions don’t seem to apply anymore. If there’s still a way to opt out, Amazon is doing a really good job of hiding it, since I can't find it anywhere on my account.
So, this is my question: does anyone know how to opt out of this?
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2019-05-20, 02:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2015
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
True, but the two are often inextricably tied, and examining what's illegal at a given time is often a good way to see how the most conservative boundaries of acceptability have changed with time.
In the U.S. in particular, the only place privacy is explicitly mentioned in the Bill of Rights in the Fourth Amendment, where the language refers to "the reasonable expectation of privacy" and gives nothing more detailed or concrete regarding what that reasonable expectation should be. In that respect, the law explicitly asserts that societal norms (the umbrella under which "is this creepy?" probably falls) should be a major basis for how the law treats privacy concerns.
@OP: As others have pointed out, the guys actually taking the picture are most likely some sort of subcontractor, which means that there probably isn't a handy automated system to opt out without having to interact with a human. If it's even possible to opt out, you'll most likely have to talk to Amazon customer service, and hope that they're willing to somehow flag your account as opting out in perpetuity, or tell you a way to put it in the comments for your order.
If they're not willing to do specifically do that for you, you might also see if you can to opt in to requiring signature confirmation for every order you make, no matter how small. Since this would largely resolve any issues with proof of delivery and liability, it makes the picture unnecessary. Also, it would mean that they can only release the package to somebody there, meaning that it would be really awkward to then take a picture of the front door.Last edited by Xyril; 2019-05-20 at 03:04 PM.
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2019-05-20, 03:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2016
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
And if you DO find a way to opt out and then a package gets lost on its way to you they're definitely going to assume you're scamming them and not give you a refund
"If you want to understand biology don't think about vibrant throbbing gels and oozes, think about information technology" -Richard Dawkins
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2019-05-20, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Gender
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
P.O. Box or a storage unit would both accept packages, storage units can accept very large ones if you import bicycles or car parts or the like. They will put the item in the unit for you and lock the door behind them.
Source: Former storage manager.
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2019-05-20, 05:36 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
- Location
- Tail of the Bellcurve
- Gender
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
We also drop the decimal via unusual rounding. Somebody who turns age X + 1 tomorrow is referred to as being age X. Even more weirdly, we consider them age X + 1 as soon as their birthday begins, even though if I was born at near midnight, at 6:00 AM I'm much farther from the clock time of by birth than I was the date of my birth 6 hours and a minute prior. Yet at 11:59 PM the day prior, I'm still considered age X.
Mathematically I find this obnoxious, hence I'm about 32.Last edited by warty goblin; 2019-05-20 at 05:39 PM.
Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
When they shot him down on the highway,
Down like a dog on the highway,And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.
Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.
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2019-05-21, 01:33 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Gender
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2019-05-21, 02:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2004
- Location
- Dijon, France
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2019-05-21, 07:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
I think that I must have some setting selected where Amazon never has to deliver packages on time. I mean like *never* . . . *never ever*. I expect there is a delivery vehicle that circles my block until the delivery would be late by 1-2 days, and then delivers the package. I understand that I might be able to start getting free months of Amazon Prime from this.
Last edited by darkrose50; 2019-05-21 at 07:12 AM.
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2019-05-21, 08:08 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2009
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
- Gender
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2019-05-21, 08:42 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
Originally Posted by Xyril
…there probably isn't a handy automated system to opt out without having to interact with a human.
Unfortunately I’ve been all over my Orders page and can’t find anything like this, which is why I’m asking if anyone else knows how.
Originally Posted by Peelee
Don't think they're as generous anymore.
They’re also much more stringent about replacement books. About a year ago I had a real problem with books arriving crumpled, mangled or otherwise damaged, due to extremely poor packaging that offered zero protection. This was especially hard on slender softbacks like Pathfinder modules and Player Companions.
For a while, Amazon would take my word on the damage, but they changed their policy to require a return of the damaged item. It’s more of a hassle, but it’s certainly fair, and I can understand why they’d want to do that. But not nearly so generous as they used to be.
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2019-05-22, 10:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2016
- Location
- The Lakes
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
It is one thing to suspend your disbelief. It is another thing entirely to hang it by the neck until dead.
Verisimilitude -- n, the appearance or semblance of truth, likelihood, or probability.
The concern is not realism in speculative fiction, but rather the sense that a setting or story could be real, fostered by internal consistency and coherence.
The Worldbuilding Forum -- where realities are born.
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2019-05-23, 03:19 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Gender
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2019-06-02, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2019
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
I personally don't have a problem with that. Not sure if they take more than one picture, but usually I receive the pictures only with my door on the picture so I dont think that might be a privacy problem
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2019-06-03, 09:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2011
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
To follow up on this, I never could find a way to disable the photo-taking option from my account--which is entirely deliberate on Amazon's part.
So, I had to get on the phone with customer service, and go through all the miserable rigamarole that usually involves, which ended up with me talking to a supervisor and learning that she, too, had absolutely no idea how to deactivate this "feature."
I persisted, so she eventually figured it out, but still no option for me to make the change myself--she had to deactivate it on her end. It seems to have worked, because I'm not seeing photos on my most recent order; but the question is if they've stopped taking photos, or if they've just stopped posting them.
I wish one of these hip, trendy, stylish digital-life websites would stop admiring their own futurism long enough to do a little update article about this. It's clearly been a change in Amazon policy within the past year, but I couldn't find any inkling of it online.
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2019-06-13, 07:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2010
- Location
- Dallas, TX
- Gender
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
No. It isn't possible.
Anything visible from a location with public access is public. If they are allowed to deliver a package to your front door, then they are allowed to photograph it.
They can't take a picture inside your door or window, but public access is, well, public.
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2019-06-14, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
Yea no. A picture of your front door adds virtually zero useable information. Your address already gets a person to the location. Are you afraid that a picture of your door is going to tell someone what tools they need to pick your lock? Don't worry, a crow bar is easier and works on almost every lock. And their are other, easier, ways to obtain entrance to most building that do not require anyone going through a door or window.
Wrong. You've never done a reverse image lookup on Google?
^^ This
Just posting them to the visible part of your account. They are probably visible to Amazon agents, and most certainly are still in their database. I can tell you with some certainty that the person delivering your package is not checking to see if you have a "no pictures" policy. I'm sure they are told to take a picture of every delivery. Training and compliance would be a nightmare to try and get them not to take pictures at all but 1 houses on their list of deliveries in a given week.
In short, all you (probably) have managed to do is make less information available to yourself, not to anyone else.
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2019-06-14, 03:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2008
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums.
I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that. -- ChubbyRain
Current Design Project: Legacy, a game of masters and apprentices for two players and a GM.
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2019-06-18, 02:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Re: Amazon Taking Photos of Your Front Door
Exactly. Some of these posters are having a knee jerk reaction to something new that they found unsettling, but haven't actually thought it through at all. Delivery companies have had your address associated with your name since forever. It's never been illegal to walk down the street and take pictures of buildings (pictures through bedroom windows starts raising issues, but front doors are uncontroversial). Google has been doing street maps for a long time where they take that concept to the next level and systematically take pictures along every stretch of every public street. That was somewhat controversial at the time, but that ship has sailed, and apart from needing to blur a few things Google wasn't found to be doing anything wrong. So unless you have a very long private driveway or live in a very remote area, your front door is already associated with your address. So any business that you've had to give your address to, such as a package deliverer, already knows what your front door looks like. There is no reason that people need to hack a delivery company to get a picture of your door. They could access that company or any number of other databases to get your address and then they'd have the door picture from that anyway. This new step isn't changing anything tangible, it's just unfamiliar enough that people want to complain about it not meeting their expectations.
I've used a regular delivery service that has done this for years. It usually doesn't make any difference, but every once in a while they'll have a new driver and there will be a mixup, and in those situations it's helpful in figuring out what went wrong. Once they just left it at the guest entrance at the side of my house, so it was easy to find with a picture. But once they showed me a picture of a completely different house, that didn't look like mine or any nearby neighbor that I could recognize. I just responded to the guy telling him that and suggesting he look at previous days photos to see it's a totally different house. Because of the picture evidence there was zero ambiguity that they'd messed up the delivery, and they not only refunded me with no hassle but gave my account a credit for the trouble. Without the picture there's always a question of whether the customer is trying to scam them, and they'd have to be more skeptical with refunds.Last edited by Errata; 2019-06-18 at 03:22 PM.