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2017-09-04, 08:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
Yeah your definition of straight doesn't add up since most of the guys who identify as straight are NOT interested in trans women with d**** or otherwise.
The fact is: For most of the population your original genitalia is a decisive factor defining your sexuality and orientation.
You may be "above that" but that doesn't make you right, superior or more evolved just that your opinion go against the majority of the population, just as people who believe that the earth is flat for example, you are entitled of your beliefs but have no right to claim superiority or that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Does it?Last edited by Zendy; 2017-09-04 at 08:16 PM.
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2017-09-04, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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- San Francisco Bay area
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Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
I hope your right, and other places are just "playing catch-up", but sadly from what I read and see (this Forum, and the news), I sometimes fear that bigotry is increasing compared to when I was a youth (maybe it just feels that way because I'm just encountering more people than those I grew up with).
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2017-09-04, 08:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
Last edited by Zendy; 2017-09-04 at 08:34 PM.
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2017-09-04, 08:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2012
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- In the Playground, duh.
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2017-09-04, 08:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
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Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
Nope.
I do work in (and for) The City and County of San Francisco, and while my brother was born and went to college in "The City", I was not, and did not, nor have I gone to any other schools in the City.
I'm working class (blue collar, no college), and was born in Oakland, where I've slept most of my life, and no San Franciscan would consider me a fellow "City kid", only someone from L.A. (and those other places down state) would call me "from San Francisco".
I imagine others would call me a "Californian" or an "American"?
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2017-09-04, 09:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
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- Its Complicated
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Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
I lived in Santa Cruz CA for a few years and even there some people considered Oakland to be basically part of SF. Up here in Washington where I am now almost everyone thinks of Oakland as a part of SF. It might not be right but the idea is is pretty widespread once you get away from the Bay area.
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2017-09-04, 09:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
- Gender
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2017-09-04, 09:31 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Bottom of a well
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
Says who? My experience is genitals are at most a limit on what you can do, not what you like to do. A limit bypassable to some extent by cleverness and love. You comparing this to flat earthers is both apropos and insulting: People who have studied this by and large disagree with you (including both academic sex researchers all the way to pornography sites, whose data show that straight men are the largest demographic viewing trans women). And at this point, you might as well keep digging. Might come out the other side.
I...
I be dragons?
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2017-09-04, 09:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2015
- Location
- San Francisco Bay area
- Gender
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
I'd say the odds are likely, the presence of big Dragons is why no BART or Cal-Trans trains stations have built down there, right?
We also have some Dragons, albeit tiny ones.
On land
and,
in the water
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2017-09-04, 10:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Bottom of a well
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
That's a shame. I like using the BART whenever I head up north. The thought they're deliberately excluding me is a little hurtful. I will sooth myself with the traditional Santa Cruz soothings, of being pretty queer, rolling around on a pile of gold, and eating free trade, organic artichokes roasted with our breath weapons.
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2017-09-04, 11:00 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
Well, that's a slippery slope of a definition: "anyone who isn't willing to have intercourse with any other human with a pulse is a whatever-your-criteria-for-attraction fetishist".
It's really a useless definition, since nearly everybody out there will be fetishists. I, for example, as a hetero guy, am a woman fetishist.Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2017-09-04, 11:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
Definitions are definitions precisely because they're reductive. The term "bisexual" exists, and by very definition is less reductive than "homosexual" and "heterosexual". Labels being reductive aren't a problem, it's pretty much the goal of having labels! If a given label doesn't apply to someone, then another label will. That's the point.
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2017-09-04, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
But sometimes labels will be fussy. And of course, just because someone is attracted to X category of people, doesn't mean that they'll be attracted to every member of it. It's best not to think too hard about labels.
Speaking of labels...how do people feel about the word "queer"?Hail to the Lord of Death and Destruction!
CATNIP FOR THE CAT GOD! YARN FOR THE YARN THRONE! MILK FOR THE MILK BOWL!
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2017-09-04, 11:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
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- Bottom of a well
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
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2017-09-04, 11:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2017-09-04, 11:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2010
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- Its Complicated
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Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
Queer's my preferred description of my orientation because anything else would be an essay. While I understand it's history and that it can be used as a slur its really helpful to have a term for "not easily categorized." I do occasionally get irritated at people thinking that it means I'm 100% lesbian though.
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2017-09-04, 11:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
Of course, but it's still important to realize that "being reductive" is a feature, not a bug, of these terms. Otherwise there wouldn't be any point in them.
Speaking of labels...how do people feel about the word "queer"?
I've never, ever used it. I have never encountered a strict need for it.
Edit: Interestingly enough, Recherché right above my post - which I didn't see before posting - makes a good argument for it.Last edited by lio45; 2017-09-04 at 11:41 PM.
Offer good while supplies last. Two to a customer. Each item sold separately. Batteries not included. Mileage may vary. All sales are final. Allow six weeks for delivery. Some items not available. Some assembly required. Some restrictions may apply. All entries become our property. Employees not eligible. Entry fees not refundable. Local restrictions apply. Void where prohibited. Except in Indiana.
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2017-09-04, 11:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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- San Francisco Bay area
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Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
It's so cruel. BART really should invest in more flame retardant upholstery and expand. Your post was glorious! :Biggrin: If I can't fit some of it in my Sig, I'm putting it into my Extended Signature. Please?
Also you quoted someone who posted (in response to one of my posts):
"Aren't you from San Francisco? Isn't that like the gayest city in the planet?"
I had three alternate ideas on how to have responded:
1) Why yes, thank you.
2) No that's Disneyland ("Happiest place on Earth")
3) So?
I just went with "I'm from Oakland", because I didn't actually understand the purpose of the question.
Because I'm old I still have some negative associations with the word:
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2017-09-05, 12:01 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2008
- Location
- Bottom of a well
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
Sure, sig away.
And yeah... I think people know the fraught history of the word, and I do really get why people might object. I know I have some really terrifying and bad experiences with it as a slur. But I also like it because it has positive history for it. Both my sexual and gender identities are enough off kilter that I often go with "queer" for myself (though Bisexual suffices for people who don't need to know more). Positive memories, I remember a march when I was a kid with the "We're Here, We're Queer," call. It's not all negative, and it's inclusive enough and enough a badge of pride reclaimed in my mind, that... eh.
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2017-09-05, 12:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2005
- Gender
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
Edit-
Not a suicide threat.
I need to go to bed. I'm fine.Last edited by ArlEammon; 2017-09-05 at 12:54 AM.
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2017-09-05, 03:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Gender
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
The problem is that people like, dismiss other people's sexualities. Like, say, if you look at trans women porn or just trans women as a group, like, gay men aren't interested in us at all; so it does mean that like it's beyond just genitals. My point is just that like, while genitals do factor into attraction, they're hardly the only thing that's at play. I doubt many straight men are into Buck Angel for example.
And it just bugs me a bit when people do the whole, oh, he's dating a trans woman, he must be gay. Or vice versa when people insist a woman's not really a lesbian cause she has a trans girlfriend.
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2017-09-05, 04:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
I also like queer. Best umbrella word for "not cishet but maybe don't fit into one of the better known neat categories" I've come across. I object to people claiming straight people aren't allowed to use it.
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2017-09-05, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
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- Charlotte, NC
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Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
I both like "queer" and hate it at the same time. On one hand, its a really good catch-all for people that aren't easily defined, like myself and many of my loved ones; on the other hand I am unfortunately someone that gets caught up in meanings and definitions by simple fact of my brain working that way, so my internal monologue usually ends up in a fist fight with what I want to say or share.
There was something here and in the avatar box, and there will eventually be again. I just need to figure out what I want...
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2017-09-05, 09:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2017
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
Yeah I bet your experience is not a niche of society.
Everyone who is not a member of the LGBT communbity! Just ask any random guy and you will see.
Your experience don't serve as a base because you are LGBT, yeah they see a lot of trans porn that just proves that they have a fetish, porn doesn't mean that they want to love and build a life together with a trans person.
Overall, just look at the definition.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/straight+person
"a heterosexual person; someone having a sexual orientation to persons of the opposite sex"
Did you see that they used "sex" not "gender"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_an...er_distinction
There you go sex is genital (the anatomy of an individual's reproductive system, and secondary sex characteristics)and gender is mental and social (gender identity).
So there you have it, I win you lose. Will you have the decency and humility to admit defeat? Probably not, since to LGBT people only your view is the right one.Last edited by Zendy; 2017-09-05 at 09:27 AM.
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2017-09-05, 09:24 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2010
- Location
- Israel
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
Ask a random guy and he might lie to you.
The reason a lot of manlymanmachodudebros dont admit to being ok with trans women is because 1. Transness isnt really understood at large 2. Transphobia is still institutional at large 3. Transphobia is seen as "simple no nonsense masculine manliness" to people due to the above facts.
That way you get a lot of people bragging about fighting trans people, or sharing "horror stories" about "thinking youre a manly man by having sex with a woman, suddenly discovering the woman is trans, by transphobia meaning not a woman, ergo you are a gay, ergo unmanly, jokes on you".
Man do i not miss trying to fit in that mold.Last edited by super dark33; 2017-09-05 at 09:28 AM.
Despite everything, its still me.
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2017-09-05, 09:38 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
Sure, but they're still a major factor in sexual orientation. If you're a man and find yourself having pleasure doing all kinds of things to/with another person's **** in the bedroom, you're not actually straight. We've got terms and definitions for everything, so there is clearly a need for a term for the millions of men - likely a majority of human males, but at the very very least, millions - who are not turned on sexually by a **** and balls. That term, last I checked, was "straight" and/or "heterosexual".
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2017-09-05, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
- Location
- In the Playground, duh.
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
I think you're trying to make a dictionary definition about a socially complex word into an argument, and it's not going to work the way you think it will.
I'll be sure to let my straight boyfriend who has only ever been with women and only ever wants to be with women know that he's not straight.
Actually he can probably read this comment and tell you why it's not true on his own, but...Last edited by Jormengand; 2017-09-05 at 10:08 AM.
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2017-09-05, 10:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
I will say this-it's okay to not be sexually attracted to people with the wrong (as in, wrong for you-not wrong universally) set of genitals. There's nothing wrong with saying "I'm a heterosexual man, I'm attracted to women, and if they have a penis, then I'm not into them sexually."
That being said-you should not deny them their womanhood. (Or manhood, in the vice versa situation.) So, if we take the example of a trans woman who has not had bottom surgery, still has her penis, all that jazz, then there's nothing wrong with a heterosexual man saying "I'm not into her." But, the man in this situation should absolutely, 100% acknowledge that the woman he's not attracted to is, in fact, a woman.
And yes-as someone who finds Jor incredibly lovely and awesome, it doesn't really matter what junk they're packing. They're a wonderful girlfriend regardless of the parts between their legs. (And, since they are genderfluid, they're still an awesome friend when not a woman.)Last edited by JNAProductions; 2017-09-05 at 10:25 AM.
I have a LOT of Homebrew!
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2017-09-05, 10:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2017
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
{Scrubbed}
Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2017-09-05 at 01:54 PM.
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2017-09-05, 10:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2012
- Location
- In the Playground, duh.
Re: LGBTAI+ Question and Discussion Thread III: Third Time's A Charm
{Scrubbed}
Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2017-09-05 at 01:55 PM.