Why are all black women in the comic sluts?

[Lunaya]

I agree fully that Haley shouldn't have been on Wombat's list. After all, we've never seen her do more than cuddle with Elan, not exactly R-rated. Celia just ticks me off in general.

I'm sorry if my views offended anyone. I just happen to think that a woman should love herself enough to make a man fight for her. (By "fight", I mean make him put forth an actual effort to win her heart before winning her body.)

[Zincorium]

Frankly, it didn't even occur to me, and it still doesn't seem to fit my perception of the comic regardless of squinting.

For me, 'slut' is strongly about the inability to be in relationships despite sexual activity. It's a social problem not a moral one.

Roy's mom was married previously, Belkar's fellow trystee has only been shown with one partner that she intends to continue a relationship with, and Sabine is not even a woman. It just doesn't click -at all-.

Edit:

I just happen to think that a woman should love herself enough to make a man fight for her. (By "fight", I mean make him put forth an actual effort to win her heart before winning her body.)

How very romantic of you. Of course, the assumption that without a 'fight' there is no love in a relationship is probably going to offend a lot of people that you didn't intend to hurt.

Although to be clear, the games and contests of the modern dating scene have pretty much killed any romantic bones in my body.

[kusje]

I don't get it. Why are Haley and Celia on that list? As far as I know they only have one boyfriend and have been completely faithful to them.

Celia slept with Roy on the first "date". But if we want to be technical about it and say Sabine isn't a human, then celia isn't human as well.

[Haven]

And Roy's mom. But even with her, the comic doesn't exactly condemn her behavior. Quite the reverse, the fact that not only is she allowed into Celestia, but that Celestia actually has a public "Tavern of Infinite One-Night Stands," seems to indicate that Rich, or at least the powers-that-be in the OotS world, see absolutely nothing wrong with some sexual promiscuity, such as hers. Which seems to be the problem with the "slut" label - not the sex, but the negative connotations of the word which imply condemnation of the behavior, and that simply does not exist here.

Zevox

Zevok wins the thread.

Really, none of the listed characters have used sexuality to hurt someone, like sleeping with one person when they had a commitment to another. If anyone's slutty, it's the guys in this comic--Belkar obviously, but Elan's "seduction" of Samantha is also pretty wrong, sexually-morally speaking. But he didn't know any better. And I don't think any of them have really debased themselves in any way over their sexuality (well, Julia did a bit, but she's 16, Durkon set her straight about "respecting herself", which I thought was a nice little bit).

Sabine's an interesting case. Despite her statements to the contrary, I think she actually WAS mad at Nale for going on that date with Haley, as evinced by her chat with V. But she had a hard time admitting it to herself, much less to Nale.

[Lunaya]

You didn't read my clarification, Zinc. I meant "Fight" to mean some kind of effort made to get to know your potential partner. Is it so wrong to make an emotional connection before a physical one?

[isocum]

The real question is when and why did Roy go from being Black to a much lighter brown?

I mean character redesigns aside, there is a pretty sharp change in his color from the beginning to now.

afaik the old color was causing problems when printing, so rich had to change it.

[Dagren]

Sabine is a shapeshifter, I don't think you can really call her black.

Depends. We've seen her in, oh, maybe half a dozen different forms? She's had similar skin tone in all of them. Whether this actually says anything about her or is just so we can recognise her is another matter, however.

EDIT: By the way, what about Haerta? The whole transparent thing makes it a bit difficult to judge, but she seems to have darker skin than average.

[Omegonthesane]

Depends. We've seen her in, oh, maybe half a dozen different forms? She's had similar skin tone in all of them. Whether this actually says anything about her or is just so we can recognise her is another matter, however.

EDIT: By the way, what about Haerta? The whole transparent thing makes it a bit difficult to judge, but she seems to have darker skin than average.

By comparison with Roy, yeah, Haerta counts as black for this stick figure comic's purposes. I recall the April Fool's thread saying OOTS was racist, citing that the most powerful black person in the strip was an Epic-level evil necromancer.

Given what characterization we have of her, I can't really imagine Haerta putting out all too easily. Particularly given she is, after all, Evil, and a Wizard, and thus is probably just a Dominate Person away from getting any guy she desires.

[Captain Alien]

Ummm... in the real world, it's 2009. Why on earth are there still people in 2009 who think that enjoying sex is an inherently "bad" thing?

Yes, and no. People seem to think that only man can have sex, or something. Just like in the middle age.

When a man is constantly having sex with different girls, most people admire him. When a woman does the same, most people call her a slut. Even the other girls.

There's only one character in OotS that perhaps you may call "slut" (And it's still a discriminatory word): Sabine. But, you know. She is a succubus. You're not going to blame her for that, are you?

[ZeroNumerous]

(... look at Mialee)

I'd much rather not..

Correlation does not imply causation.

But it does, as xkcd put it, point and snicker loudly.

Sabine. But, you know. She is a succubus. You're not going to blame her for that, are you?

Actually, yes you very well could blame her for that. There is established precedent for chaste succubi.

[shadzar]

Um, maybe sex and relationships is just another running gag in the strip? Like it always turns up to be in games of D&D. There is little story or plot involved in them, but somehow sexual encounters (how much XP and are they solo or mob encounters? ) are always brought into the game by at least one player, so OOTS just takes it to the extreme and in order to help show they are people living in the OOTS world itself?

[EyethatBinds]

Rich is just trying to portray a realistic D&D game. Have you ever seen one which didn't have a strangely large portion of the female populous that were easy?

[Lissou]

I'm sorry if my views offended anyone. I just happen to think that a woman should love herself enough to make a man fight for her. (By "fight", I mean make him put forth an actual effort to win her heart before winning her body.)

I understand your point (you think that a woman should be in love before she has sex, and that having sex without love means a low self-esteem, if I'm correct).
I disagree, however. I don't see why love and sex should go together. It can for you of course, but I don't think it should for everybody. I can certainly think of times I have been in love without having sex at all, and cases I had sex without being in love. Not because I didn't respect myself, and no, I didn't give my body, it's a shared experience. Thinking the man is winning the woman's body sounds a bit sexist to me.
You're two people, you "win" each other's body, or rather you share something. It can be a hug, it can be intercourse. I don't consider one more wrong than the other, and I don't consider either requires being in love.

As far as I'm concerned, trust and respect are required, but I wouldn't hold anyone else to that either. It you have sex with someone you don't trust or respect, just for the pleasure of the thing, well sure, why not. It's like eating a piece of chocolate cake without being hungry. Some actually say it tastes better if you're not hungry.

Anyway, about the black thing... I've always seen Sabine more as a... I don't know the word in English, a half-black, half-white person. As such, she's as much white as she's black to me.

[Boogastreehouse]

I'm sorry if my views offended anyone. I just happen to think that a woman should love herself enough to make a man fight for her. (By "fight", I mean make him put forth an actual effort to win her heart before winning her body.)

No, no. I understand your view, and I don't disagree with the sentiment that's in the foreground; if a woman feels that it is important for a man to fight for her, then she shouldn't settle for something less. I'm right there with you so far. My comment stems from the subtext of your statements—the implication (in the quote above, for instance) that if she doesn't feel the need to make a man fight for her, that she then doesn't love herself enough.

My comment addresses the idea that a woman can just enjoy a sexual lifestyle for the pleasure of it (or for the love and affection of just being friends with her lover, or from any number of rewards), with no need to have her partner prove his or her devotion to her. This woman is not necessarily suffering from a lack of scruples, nor is she automatically suffering from a lack of self-respect—a conclusion that I perceive you to be drawing—just because her priorities are different.

Is it so wrong to make an emotional connection before a physical one?

Absolutely not. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that at all. Is it so wrong for a woman not to feel the need to do so?

It may seem that I'm trying to start a fight, but I'm sincerely not. I've just spent years hearing people I know, people whom I am close to—balanced, loving and self-loving people—being called sluts (in a negative way) because of the degree of comfort they have with their own sexuality. It's left me with some strong opinions, and a degree of sensitivity, when I perceive judgment being passed.

I honestly hope that I am sufficiently expressing my respect in this exchange, despite my disagreement.

[Ridureyu]

So Sabine's Halle Barry, then?

[Boogastreehouse]

Lissou, your post did a much better job of saying what I was trying to say. I agree with you.

Thinking the man is winning the woman's body sounds a bit sexist to me.

I've always thought of that as the Olive Oil syndrome. The desire (need?) to have your lover prove their devotion by competing for it (like Popeye and Bluto).

Anyway, about the black thing... I've always seen Sabine more as a... I don't know the word in English, a half-black, half-white person. As such, she's as much white as she's black to me.

Is the word you're looking for mulatto? I believe that is the traditional term, although I think it might currently be politically incorrect. Then again, everything is politically incorrect at some point, isn't it?

[Querzis]

Actually, yes you very well could blame her for that. There is established precedent for chaste succubi.

Yeah, which is one of the stupidest thing to ever come out of planescape.

You didn't read my clarification, Zinc. I meant "Fight" to mean some kind of effort made to get to know your potential partner. Is it so wrong to make an emotional connection before a physical one?

Not at all, but its very wrong to assume girls who dont think love and sex have anything to do with each other have no self-respect.

Anyway, the only reason we even see promiscuity as wrong is because of our culture. OOTS is a magical world where gods walk the Earth and where we actually know for a fact about the afterlives so the fact that people dont make such a big deal about sex in a world like that just seems logical to me.

By the way, it also surprise me that a guy who sleep with many girls is admired by other guys while a girl that sleep with many guys is called a slut by other girls. But once again, its part of our culture and our upbringing.

[Lissou]

Is the word you're looking for mulatto? I believe that is the traditional term, although I think it might currently be politically incorrect. Then again, everything is politically incorrect at some point, isn't it?

Right, except mulatto sounds like it would be for a male, to me. And I have no idea if it's incorrect to use, sometimes I can't really follow these things.
Either way, it's always seemed weird to me that (in French at least) there is a word for someone with a black parent and a white parent, but no other "combination" (except when both parents are the same of course). Only the word "métis" that means you're a mix, but it could be anything, including mulatto.
Anyway, it's a bit hard to see ethnicity in oots, but to be Sabine kinda moves between mulatto and latino, depending.

Someone asked when Roy's skin tone changed, btw, and the answer is about the way it looked in print. His eyes and mouth couldn't be seen with his skin so dark so Rich made it lighter.

The problem with stick figure is that you can only change the skin tone, and that doesn't mean that much without features. There are people in India with a very dark skin tone who aren't considered "black" because they don't have the features. There are Japanese people with a darkish skin, same as latinos. In Africa there is a broad range, from North Africa (Arabia, Tunisia...) with un-black, medium skin toned people, to Black Africa, with people so black you can't always see their features and their eyes looks so white (in Senegal for instance).

Anyway, I'm guessing the Giant has a few skin tones he uses, and unless it really matters for the story (all Azurites are Asian, Roy's family is black like him..) he probably just picks one at random, I'd say. I don't think it is of any importance or relevance that Jenny has dark skin.

(Sorry about that whole speech. I recently tried to make it obvious that a stick figure character was a First Nation guy. No such luck >.>)

[factotum]

Right, except mulatto sounds like it would be for a male, to me. And I have no idea if it's incorrect to use, sometimes I can't really follow these things.

"Mulatto" can refer to either gender, AFAIK, but it's an archaic (and probably offensive) word so you won't really hear it today. There's also "quadroon" (one-quarter black ancestry) and "octoroon" (one-eighth)--again, archaic and probably offensive these days; I think the only time I ever saw the latter word used was to describe someone in Huxley's "Brave New World", which was published in 1932!

[Mephit]

Correlation does not imply causation.

My thought exactly.

[Assassin89]

Must restrain self from stabbing thread

The conclusion made should be invalid because we have only seen three females with dark skin and a succubus. The conclusion is also based on a fraction of the entire world, meaning that there is not enough evidence to support the conclusion.

[Lunaya]

I didn't give my body, it's a shared experience. Thinking the man is winning the woman's body sounds a bit sexist to me.
You're two people, you "win" each other's body, or rather you share something.

You're absolutely right. Without going into detail, I'll chalk my feelings to the contrary up to a lifetime under a very domineering man. I know it's very wrong, but it's difficult for me not to see sex as man exercising control over woman. Stupid, I know. But I'm sure I'll get over it eventually.

I honestly hope that I am sufficiently expressing my respect in this exchange, despite my disagreement.

Absolutely! I respect your views too. It's completely cool that what works for me may not be what works for other people. Mostly, I wanted to express that there doesn't seem to be any correlation in this comic between race and alleged promiscuity...Really, I don't know why the OP thought there was.

[Swordguy]

Why are people trying to bring our society morals into a fantasy setting?

Again, and embiggened, since it didn't seem to take the first time.

I can't believe this hasn't been locked yet.

[Dixieboy]

Must restrain self from stabbing thread

The conclusion made should be invalid because we have only seen three females with dark skin and a succubus.

Two of whom were related, and while yes. The mother was sexually liberated and the daughter was quite eager to direct attention towards her "assets"... Screw it, that is fairly slutty, and while yea there is a bar of infinite one night stands in heaven, they ARE trying to make you feel guilty about it. (According to Roys archon)

The last girl was faced with the charms of the belkster, we would've all have fallen for him, even the dudes. (Which i myself, am one of)

But in the end.
Who cares?

[theMycon]

Zz'dtri has no sexual connotations whatsoever.

Likewise, V's children, despite making up a full male and a full female between the two of them, did not offer themselves to the dragon.

When Roy donned the Belt of Gender Change, he didn't suddenly spread his legs to that gnome, despite it being very willing.

There. Two and a half counter-examples. Versus three and a half examples (Zz'dtri Vs. Sabine).

Also, Dude, black is not the preferred nomenclature. African-Stickversian, please.Yes, I know there's no "Africa" here. I can never resist a Big Lebowski quote when the situation calls for it.


Furthermore, the OP's treating objects like they're women.

[factotum]

Screw it, that is fairly slutty, and while yea there is a bar of infinite one night stands in heaven, they ARE trying to make you feel guilty about it. (According to Roys archon)

Ironically, though, the way they make you feel guilty about the one-night stands is to make you start your life in Celestia living with your parents...at least, that's the implication of the conversation Roy had with his archon there!

[Adeptus]

Why are all black women in OOTS sluts?

Huge eyeroll for the medieval "sexual morals" in the opening post. Jesus H Christ.

/edit

And anybody who is willing to use that name and think it only applies to women is misogynist to the level of racism. If anything it's the blokes who will sleep with pretty much anyone at any time.

[Haven]

Furthermore, the OP's treating objects like they're women.

Bwah??

[Adeptus]

The real question is when and why did Roy go from being Black to a much lighter brown.

There was some issue with how the colours look in the books, I seem to recall.

[Lord Seth]

Celia slept with Roy on the first "date".

That may have been a bit quick, but as far as we know Roy was her only boyfriend at the time. Let me pull up my handy dandy dictionary...
Slut: A slovenly or promiscuous woman.

Slovenly: (Especially of a person or their appearance) Messy and dirty
Promiscuous: Having many sexual relationships, especially transient ones.

Promiscuous is the key bit here, and I don't see how sleeping with Roy on their first date makes her promiscuous. It's moving a bit fast, but as far as I know she's stayed faithful to him, and only tried a relationship with him AFTER her previous boyfriend cheated on her. That's not promiscuous.

There's loads of things to dislike about Celia, but she isn't promiscuous.