DNA ethnicity test: have you? Would you?

[Winter_Wolf]

For some reason Leather Jacket Guy and his Are Ya Having That? clips cropped up in my YouTube recommendations. The topic of one was "how Irish are ya?" (DNA testing edition). Swabbed the mouth, sent off to a lab and got back results. They drew it out and Leather Jacket Guy was an over the top ham, which seems to be part of his gimmick. But it got me thinking. Has anyone here done such a DNA test? Would you bother?

I admit a mild curiosity, but being from the US, and definitely mixed blood, I identify less with any particular ethnic group and strongly with the culture I grew up in. I don't particularly think it would change how I think of myself or my heritage to know exact percentages, but it might be nice to figure out something about my maternal grandmother, since my mother hasn't got a clue beyond "grew up in the South."

[Eldan]

For some reason Leather Jacket Guy and his Are Ya Having That? clips cropped up in my YouTube recommendations. The topic of one was "how Irish are ya?" (DNA testing edition). Swabbed the mouth, sent off to a lab and got back results. They drew it out and Leather Jacket Guy was an over the top ham, which seems to be part of his gimmick. But it got me thinking. Has anyone here done such a DNA test? Would you bother?

I admit a mild curiosity, but being from the US, and definitely mixed blood, I identify less with any particular ethnic group and strongly with the culture I grew up in. I don't particularly think it would change how I think of myself or my heritage to know exact percentages, but it might be nice to figure out something about my maternal grandmother, since my mother hasn't got a clue beyond "grew up in the South."

Central Europe would be complicated ethnically. I mean, I'm Swiss, as have been my parents, all of my grandparents and 7/8 of my great-grandparents. The last one was Bavarian. So, I'm probably pretty purely Germannic Alamanni, but my grandmother claims there's some Russian or Bohemian in there. All in all, probably not too exciting, probably not worth the money to check.

[Murk]

I wouldn't bother personally, because I've never cared that much about ethnicity, let alone biological ethnicity. I just don't see how it would be relevant to me at all (or interesting, for that matter).
Something that is rather similar, but I find much more interesting, would be to let someone research my genealogy. I would much rather hear "you have a great-great-grandfather who fought in the Italian unification war" than "your DNA has a 0.3% match with Sardinian people". Or, "One of your ancient ancestors lived in Cahokia!" then "you have a 0.000002 Miami DNA".

[Joran]

I'd be kind of interested, although, ethnically, I'm supposedly 100% Han Chinese. The thing I'm looking for is what part of China and whether I'm related to Genghis Khan.

However, because of the lack of privacy guarantees, I'm not going to do it.

[Knaight]

I haven't, I wouldn't. To start with I really don't care. Ethnicity is relevant inasmuch as it affects cultural treatment, and that's based on phenome and not genome.

[Murk]

The thing I'm looking for is what part of China and whether I'm related to Genghis Khan.

It's one of those famous stories that everyone from Western European descend is a descendant of Charlemagne - by doubling amount of ancestors every generation (2 parents, 4 grandparents, etc.), someone from Western Europe would have about 2⁵⁰ ancestors - more people than were alive at the time. It is virtually impossible to be of Western European descend and not have Charlemagne somewhere in your pedigree.

This doesn't go for China, of course, but I'm rather sure (especially seeing how many children Genghis had walking around at the end of his life) that there is still a very, very, very high chance of you being related to Genghis Khan.

[Rockphed]

It's one of those famous stories that everyone from Western European descend is a descendant of Charlemagne - by doubling amount of ancestors every generation (2 parents, 4 grandparents, etc.), someone from Western Europe would have about 2⁵⁰ ancestors - more people than were alive at the time. It is virtually impossible to be of Western European descend and not have Charlemagne somewhere in your pedigree.

This doesn't go for China, of course, but I'm rather sure (especially seeing how many children Genghis had walking around at the end of his life) that there is still a very, very, very high chance of you being related to Genghis Khan.

The math is even more elaborate than that. Essentially they figured out that for certain relatively closed populations, only 20% of people at some point had living descendents, but all living people in that group were descended from all of them. I don't remember where I read that, or I would hunt it down and give links.

[Mith]

It would be interesting because as far as my mother's side of the family go, we are pretty sure where they are all from for a good ways back. One family seems to be pure Scots as far back as the records go, while the other side can trace back to 8 specific farms in Norway. There would likely be some surprises that way, but I think it would be fairly isolated.

My dad's side of the family doesn't have as strong a records, but as far as the family name, seems to be Scots via Normandy (Norman invaders/settlers depending on the story), and then Irish/Scots. I wouldn't expect much connection to continental Europe that wouldn't be explained by the Norse settlement in France or the Celtic Migration towards the British Isles.

I would be more interested in specific genealogy for a better family tree record, but not the % relation. Not sure if I would be interested enough to pay a whole lot for such a test.

[veti]

If you do go in for the DNA thing... be prepared for the possibility of surprises, which may translate into "upsets". For instance, how would you feel if you learned that your DNA couldn't have come from the people you've always thought of as your mother and father? How would your family react to that revelation?

Until the middle of last century, and even later in some communities, it was quite commonplace for the baby of an unmarried mother to be "claimed" by some respectable relatives (the girl's parents, or more distant relatives), who would pretend to all the world - including official records - that it was theirs. Or for women to get married because they were pregnant, and the husband to record himself as the baby's father whether he was or not. Or... oh, just exercise your inner soap-writer, the scenarios are endless. And in many cases, neither the child nor anyone else in their generation would ever find out the truth of this story.

There are a lot of secrets buried in the "official" genealogies. A lot. Before you do something that might result in uncovering some of them, it's worth taking a moment to think about what impact that might have on other people still living.

[2D8HP]

I'm somewhat curious, but it would have to be cheap, and a physical storefront that wasn't far out of my way, and the line would have to be short.

So I'll probably never do it.

[Recherché]

I learned a year or so back that my grandfather is, well not my biological grandfather, due to an accident at the fertility clinic my grandmother received treatment at. They have no idea who my biological grandad is or his ethnicity and neither does anyone else. My mother's reacted to this by having her DNA tested and trying to track down multiple leads on who her biological father could be despite the fact that all the possible candidates are deceased. Me, I've discovered that I don't care; I am who I am now because of the people who raised me and the world I've lived in. The exact origin of my distant ancestors doesn't matter to me . In fact it feels slightly disrespectful to my grandad to spend so much time and effort trying to research who exactly contributed some relatively incidental genetic material. So personally I'd say "no". Its not something I want to be overly concerned with.

[Kalmageddon]

I'm somewhat curious, but it would have to be cheap, and a physical storefront that wasn't far out of my way, and the line would have to be short.

So I'll probably never do it.

Same here.
All things considered, I don't see what the big deal is. It might be interesting if it reveals some really outlandsish ancestor, but seeing how the number of people one is related to grows exponentially the further back you go, maybe even that wouldn't come off as such a big surprise.

[danzibr]

I did it.

My wife's mom is super into genealogy and got my wife a kit for Christmas, and then my wife used it on me. I'm a bit dark (I've been assumed to be Mexican before), so we were expecting, well, not the results.

51% Scandinavian, 18(?)% Irish, then other western and Central European stuff. Nothing else.

[robnar]

My wife and I bought the National Geographic Geno 2.0 kits for our parents one year for Christmas. A couple thoughts:

1. If your parents are interested in it, they make good parents.
2. If you get both of your parents then you will get yourself.
3. The results were fun to think about and talk about with our folks, and basically confirmed stuff that we already thought, but had no confirmation of.

I thought that was a good way to do it, and it was fun doing it with family to be able to talk about it.

[the_david]

It's one of those famous stories that everyone from Western European descend is a descendant of Charlemagne - by doubling amount of ancestors every generation (2 parents, 4 grandparents, etc.), someone from Western Europe would have about 2⁵⁰ ancestors - more people than were alive at the time. It is virtually impossible to be of Western European descend and not have Charlemagne somewhere in your pedigree.

This doesn't go for China, of course, but I'm rather sure (especially seeing how many children Genghis had walking around at the end of his life) that there is still a very, very, very high chance of you being related to Genghis Khan.

My mom did some digging and traced back the family line to Charlemagne, so yeah. Dirk the Third was a surprise though. He isn't that well known unless you've lived in Vlaardingen. Guess where I've spend the first 27 years of my life?

As for a DNA ethnicity test? It would probably say mostly Dutch and less than 3/8th Spanish.

[thorgrim29]

As far as I know I come from 2 families that emigrated from France (Brittany on my mother's side for sure, the Paris area or Provence/Gascogne on my dad's side based on wineries that share my name) to what was then Nouvelle-France in the 17th century. I know I had an Irish great-great-grandmother too and that there was probably some intermingling with yankee loyalists after the american revolution. So that means I'm probably mostly germanic (Frank and scandinavian) with a bit of celtic and maybe some native american thrown in for good measure because there was a lot of.... cultural exchange going on between the french settlers and the First Nations before the 7 years war. Which would make sense because I have blue/grey eyes, brown hair, and burn in the sun. It would be interesting to know the exact ratios though since tracking a family name is pretty easy but that only gives you half the info for each generation, I might give it a try one of these days.

[wumpus]

You mentioned that you are in the US, so I wouldn't want to do such a thing without an identification such as "patient #2383490653490" and paying in cash/bitcoins. Expect any DNA information (including health information not given to you) to be available to employers and health insurance companies (thanks Trump&Congress, although I'd assume they would do it illegally without such help).

My father did this (and I can only hope it doesn't bite me. I'm an only child and reasonably healthy so things shouldn't be too bad), and the information isn't much more definitive than "norther Europe" and "Iberian peninsula". I *think* it may have also included some ancestors, but that might have been simply looking up information that dad already gave[1] them and handing it back.

[1] Ancestry.com [much like facebook] takes IP ownership of anything you upload. You might have noticed I'm a bit suspicious of the whole endeavour.

[danzibr]

My wife and I bought the National Geographic Geno 2.0 kits for our parents one year for Christmas. A couple thoughts:

1. If your parents are interested in it, they make good parents.
2. If you get both of your parents then you will get yourself.
3. The results were fun to think about and talk about with our folks, and basically confirmed stuff that we already thought, but had no confirmation of.

I thought that was a good way to do it, and it was fun doing it with family to be able to talk about it.

Ya know, if you know both parents, you don't necessarily know yourself. Each parent passes on half of their stuff to you, but if say your mom is half Japanese and half Irish, you could inherit any mix of the two.

At least, to my limited biology knowledge.

[Winter_Wolf]

Good point and kind logic, wumpus. Pretty much why my curiosity is going to stay a curiosity rather than "hey guess what I did." I already have to do all kinds of things that require me to hand over personal information to organizations that aren't putting my interests first if at all. But why hand 'em the keys to the castle, as it were?

That aside I can't help but be amused by the knowledge that someone somewhere was full of pride over their heritage, and found out it wasn't what they thought. And then have to live with their secret shame. Because you know that's happened to at least a few people by now.

I'm almost completely certain I'm not even 50% anything other than "your ancestors were all human." I'd be more interested in seeing whether I have any Neanderthal DNA than anything else, but not enough to get tested.

[Murk]

I'd be more interested in seeing whether I have any Neanderthal DNA than anything else, but not enough to get tested.

Ooooh I hadn't thought about that one yet. That makes me much more interested in these tests. It's something a simple genealogy can't do (I'm pretty sure we don't have Neanderthal genealogies lying around) and it's exactly the kind of useless trivia I enjoy.

[veti]

I'm almost completely certain I'm not even 50% anything other than "your ancestors were all human." I'd be more interested in seeing whether I have any Neanderthal DNA than anything else, but not enough to get tested.

My understanding is that if you have any European or Asian ancestry, then yes, you have at least some Neanderthal in you.

Which is nothing to be ashamed of, neanderthals were people too. The whole "knuckle-dragging savage" stereotype can safely be written off as racist Cro-Magnon propaganda.

[nyjastul69]

I haven't, I wouldn't. To start with I really don't care. Ethnicity is relevant inasmuch as it affects cultural treatment, and that's based on phenome and not genome.

I came to say this in a much less eloquent fashion. Thank you.

I'm told my heritage is Scottish, English, Irish and French. I am none of those things. I'm a person who grew up in the US, in NE, in RI. I am none of those things either. I am just me.

[Winter_Wolf]

I don't know why anyone would ever be ashamed of that. Based on my very limited understanding from reading a couple of articles in a science magazine, it would be weird if I didn't, based on geography and ancestry. If I do, though, the Neanderthal part either didn't pass on much genetically, or were pretty fine-boned. My wife has more of the sturdy skeletal traits that were said to be associated with Neanderthal physique. Our kids are one more like myself and one more like her. Genetic lottery is just weird.

[AnachroNinja]

I sometimes suspect the entire industry is a front to promote racism by trying to remind people of their generic heritage and make it seem important, thus reinforcing our differences.

But I'm pretty paranoid.

[snowblizz]

I sometimes suspect the entire industry is a front to promote racism by trying to remind people of their generic heritage and make it seem important, thus reinforcing our differences.

But I'm pretty paranoid.

Ah no, unlikely to be more sinister than "-Gee, you think people would pay us for shaking these testtubes for a bit? -They would? -Ka-ching!".

However, downpipe from that... yes I can see the plot to a bad dystopian movie.

I wouldn't mind doing this for a lark. But am not sure I'd want to send it to a US company.

My understanding is that if you have any European or Asian ancestry, then yes, you have at least some Neanderthal in you.
Which is nothing to be ashamed of, neanderthals were people too. The whole "knuckle-dragging savage" stereotype can safely be written off as racist Cro-Magnon propaganda.

The people perpetrating said stereotype were in fact more likely to have less "modern" DNA. Now that's ironic. And sorta shows how a thing like this has another side to it.

[smuchmuch]

First regaurdless of interest I'd question the reliability of the test. Which markers they are based on and the very big factor: how trained are the people who actualy designed it and how much though they've given it beyond 'hey we can make money of this'. Oh sure DNA testing has gone a long way and it's certainly overall, quicker, more secure and much less expensive it once was but it's far from being perfect. Genetics, and particulary population gentics is a whole field of itself for a reason, and defining ethnicity (most of the markers of which which are a purely cultural contructs but whatever.) a gigantic can of worms.
Then I'd look how much it costs.
Then maybe I'd take it out of curiosit and take any results with a big grain of salt

[tantric]

i did 23&me. my paternal grandfather died when i was young. i was always told he was native american, "wild ass indian". since we are in georgia i assumed he was creek/muscogee. 23&me showed no amerind dna at all...but 1% sub-saharan african. hmmm. my grandfather was 'high yellah'/very light skinned, pretending to be an indian so he could marry a white woman. otherwise, he kids would have been black, 'one drop pollutes'. which means that technically, i'm black. but apparently i'm more jewish than black, so go figure

[Leewei]

My understanding is that if you have any European or Asian ancestry, then yes, you have at least some Neanderthal in you.

This substantiates your comment:

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/neanderthal/

Note that even many African populations carry some DNA from Neanderthals. Only isolated sub-Saharan populations did not interbreed with this species.

Modern humans were originally very dark-skinned, adapted to living in regions with strong sunlight. Neanderthal was adapted with fair skin to better produce vitamin D in regions with less sunlight. This makes the notion of whiteness indicating purity a very laughable thing.

[2D8HP]

...Modern humans were originally very....

I've read that evolution actually changes skin color much faster than previously thought.

If somehow the populations of Nigeria and Norway were switched and there was no further migration (some big "if's"!), in less than 3,000 years their descendents skin shades would be close to the populations that they replaced.

[Leewei]

I've read that evolution actually changes skin color much faster than previously thought.

If somehow the populations of Nigeria and Norway were switched and there was no further migration (some big "if's"!), in less than 3,000 years their descendents skin shades would be close to the populations that they replaced.

Note that this article is from 2009. Consensus on Neanderthal DNA is a more recent development (around 2013). The two may well be interrelated. Weaker sunlight certainly was what caused selection toward paler skin, which originates from Neanderthal genes. Successive mutations are part of evolution as well, but since the genes are already with us, there's no need to wait for random changes. Epigenetics are another relatively recent thing which may play a big role in this.