The Index of the Giant's Comments IV - A Rich Source of Quotassium

[The Linker]

Well, the fact that it can happen does not mean that it happened.
You can link to something saying "This scroll can explode", and people could still think "OK, but that is not what happened" - while the tweet doesn't explain it, it does give a conclusive answer that it actually happened.

I mean, yeah, but I find it really difficult to believe that any reasonable person couldn't make that connection once they have all the facts. Blackwing says "Good news is, I have no idea what I'm doing!" and then makes it blow up with nonsense words + using a magic device when you don't know what you're doing makes it blow up... anyone trying to argue "Maybe he turned it into a scroll of fireball!" at that point can only be trying to live their life as if Occam's razor is their kryptonite.

But then, I've argued with people on this board who sincerely thought that everyone disbelieved Blackwing's existence in Blood in the Family because he got too close to the rift the previous book and it erased most peoples' memories, and they only stopped when the Giant stepped in and said "What? No. It was just a joke." As much as I really, really don't want it to be true, sometimes the author stating the obvious is the only thing you can reference.

[Gwynfrid]

We could include the translation cleartext as a supporting link, I suppose; but it isn't a quote from the Giant so it can't form an entry by itself. (A2 excludes second-hand sources, which is what anyone else saying the Giant said would be).

That's a neat solution.

[Rodin]

Speaking as a non-D&D player, it was pretty obvious to me what was happening as inexperienced people failing to use a magical object (or cast a spell) having unexpected explosive results is a pretty common trope. I can think of at least 4 or 5 cases in literature off the top of my head, including at least one case where the failure was intentional.

I also just realized that there is precedent within the comic itself to explain what happened - when Haley practices using wands, she blows herself up.

[Ruck]

Speaking as a non-D&D player, it was pretty obvious to me what was happening as inexperienced people failing to use a magical object (or cast a spell) having unexpected explosive results is a pretty common trope. I can think of at least 4 or 5 cases in literature off the top of my head, including at least one case where the failure was intentional.

I also just realized that there is precedent within the comic itself to explain what happened - when Haley practices using wands, she blows herself up.

Indeed, as others have pointed out in the thread on #1020, translating the runes to the scroll reveals this very information, that the scene in #970 establishes explosions as precedent for the misuse of magic items.

[Jasdoif]

OK, looks like the first one (the Gygax Magazine quote) is getting in, and the second (the explosion sourcing) is in votable range. So the tentative list is:

The OotS Strips in Gygax Magazine Will Be in a Collection Someday	#1020	01/22/2016	Tentative, appears will be included without vote.
Blackwing's Explosion in #1020 is a Scroll Activation Mishap Furthermore, the writing on the scroll reads "STRIP #970 P5 ESTABLISHES THAT MAGIC ITEMS EXPLODE WHEN ACTIVATED IMPROPERLY".	#1020	01/22/2016	Tentative, appears will be eligible for vote.

[Ron Miel]

Furthermore, the writing on the scroll reads "STRIP #970 P5 ESTABLISHES THAT MAGIC ITEMS EXPLODE WHEN ACTIVATED IMPROPERLY".

That isn't a quote from The Giant.

[Jasdoif]

That isn't a quote from The Giant.

Right, which is why it has to be a supporting quote and can't be the basis for an entry on its own. There was some support for including a reading of the scroll text to help explain the concept, and we have had supporting links before:

Real World Intent
The Giant Applauding 5E D&D's Acknowledgement of Diversity Specifically, how the core rules take into account gender, gender identity, and sexuality; as referred to the article here.	#958	07/24/2014

[SaintRidley]

That isn't a quote from The Giant.

Getting super technical, if that's what the words on the scroll say when transliterated to the Latin alphabet, then Rich did actually say it. In comic. As a thing for us to discover.

[Gwynfrid]

Without resorting to fine technical points: The quote as proposed by Jasdoif fulfills the purpose of the Index. Calling it redundant with the strip would be a big stretch, since it takes a code translation to infer the same information from the strip. Therefore, inclusion is warranted.

[137beth]

Without resorting to fine technical points: The quote as proposed by Jasdoif fulfills the purpose of the Index. Calling it redundant with the strip would be a big stretch, since it takes a code translation to infer the same information from the strip. Therefore, inclusion is warranted.

I agree with this assessment.



The most recent tweet by the Giant about orcs on a carpet, on the other hand, appears not to be related to the comic, though it is a bit fuzzy since it involves OOTS minitatures. I think it should not be included.

[DataNinja]

The most recent tweet by the Giant about orcs on a carpet, on the other hand, appears not to be related to the comic, though it is a bit fuzzy since it involves OOTS minitatures. I think it should not be included.

I don't know how fuzzy the quote is, but it's certainly less fuzzy than that carpet.

That being said, I don't think it should be included, as all it say is he's working on stuff.

[Ruck]

I thought the "+1 carpeted terrain" Orc comment was clearly a joke.

[Kish]

His Twitter response to someone who showed him a picture of using his orc miniatures? Does anyone think it should be included? It's not about OotS (a cardboard Elan is an OotS miniature; a cardboard orc is generic, and his miniatures are aimed at creatures people use in campaigns, with only coincidental overlap with creatures who have shown up in OotS) and he said it on Twitter. The thread's weird "let's not include a lot of things he says on the forum that clearly are about the comic" thing since Rich asked that his views on unrelated media not be included aside, what he actually said was that he doesn't want people cataloging things he says on places that aren't the OotS forum and aren't about OotS. It should not be included and has a high risk of drawing Wrath of Giant if for some weird reason it is included.

[137beth]

His Twitter response to someone who showed him a picture of using his orc miniatures? Does anyone think it should be included? It's not about OotS (a cardboard Elan is an OotS miniature; a cardboard orc is generic, and his miniatures are aimed at creatures people use in campaigns, with only coincidental overlap with creatures who have shown up in OotS) and he said it on Twitter. The thread's weird "let's not include a lot of things he says on the forum that clearly are about the comic" thing since Rich asked that his views on unrelated media not be included aside, what he actually said was that he doesn't want people cataloging things he says on places that aren't the OotS forum and aren't about OotS. It should not be included and has a high risk of drawing Wrath of Giant if for some weird reason it is included.

Pretty much my thoughts, and why I think it shouldn't be included.

[Jasdoif]

His Twitter response to someone who showed him a picture of using his orc miniatures? Does anyone think it should be included? It's not about OotS (a cardboard Elan is an OotS miniature; a cardboard orc is generic, and his miniatures are aimed at creatures people use in campaigns, with only coincidental overlap with creatures who have shown up in OotS) and he said it on Twitter. The thread's weird "let's not include a lot of things he says on the forum that clearly are about the comic" thing since Rich asked that his views on unrelated media not be included aside, what he actually said was that he doesn't want people cataloging things he says on places that aren't the OotS forum and aren't about OotS. It should not be included and has a high risk of drawing Wrath of Giant if for some weird reason it is included.

The odds of it getting included are exceedingly slim. Unless the Kickstarter Mystery Prize is a sourcebook along the lines of the Miniatures Handbook and is clearly branded as an "Order of the Stick" supplement, or another contrived scenario comes about, I don't see how a comment (joke or otherwise) on Twitter about someone else's array of cardboard miniatures using art resembling orcs in the comic gets past Rule B1 (which "excludes non-comic-related opinions, statements, etc. from Rich").

Pretty much my thoughts, and why I think it shouldn't be included.

It kinda throws things/me off a bit when people bring up things they don't think should be included....

[137beth]

It kinda throws things/me off a bit when people bring up things they don't think should be included....

I figure that there might be someone else who would want to include it, but hasn't noticed it, so I bring it up for discussion. Also, I figure that there is a rather high chance that if I don't bring it up, someone else will. Hence, I am preemptively arguing against it. If, as appears to be the case here, everyone already agreed with me, then in hindsight I didn't accomplish anything by bringing it up except arguing with myself. But then posting on the forum is never really an accomplishment

It's not the first time I brought up a quote which I didn't want to be included, though it's been a few years since the last time I did it....

[Jasdoif]

It's not the first time I brought up a quote which I didn't want to be included, though it's been a few years since the last time I did it....

If by "few years" you mean "several months".

On the flip side, I believe that the Giant's non-response to a stupid, offensive, and just plain inaccurate analogy should NOT be added to the index. Indexing the Giant's post locking that thread would merely give more view to the post that the Giant didn't want to dignify.

I didn't mention it before (beyond a general comment about one-sided-nos on a different quote) because, frankly, it's a minor inconvenience to me; I simply can't assume the initial mention of a quote has implicit support (which is what I do if someone posts a link without any commentary of their own). I don't maintain the Index for my own convenience

But when you're agreeing with someone who's concerned over the inclusion of a quote that no one's wanted included, which was only brought up because you brought up....It seemed an appropriate time to mention the trivial impact to me.


Also, I see "unconvinced but unsure" as an entirely different matter to "don't include it". The former I can see value in bringing up in case others are more certain; the latter...well, historically we haven't had problems with quotes finding supporters, if supporters exist.

[Sniffnoy]

The Giant's recent tweets on what Roy can remember from the afterlife seem relevant.

[2.5 cats]

The Giant's recent tweets on what Roy can remember from the afterlife seem relevant.

Excellent point!

[unbeliever536]

Excellent point!

Oh, definitely.

[Gwynfrid]

The Giant's recent tweets on what Roy can remember from the afterlife seem relevant.

I think these two quotes are not covering anything that wasn't there in #666 already.

[littlebum2002]

I think these two quotes are not covering anything that wasn't there in #666 already.

If this was true then Rich never would have been asked the question which led to that response.

People are asking the question, therefore it wasn't clear. Now we know what "fulfilling blur" means, and we should include it.

[Gwynfrid]

If this was true then Rich never would have been asked the question which led to that response.


People are asking the question, therefore it wasn't clear.

Allow me to disagree entirely. People ask questions all the time: It proves nothing. There are many questions, because people will miss things in such a rich, complex, long story, not because the comic is unclear.

[Keltest]

If this was true then Rich never would have been asked the question which led to that response.

People are asking the question, therefore it wasn't clear. Now we know what "fulfilling blur" means, and we should include it.

You are assuming that people have a 100% perfect memory of every word ever spoken in every comic released online.

What roy says is, if anything, even more specific than what the Giant tweeted. I see no reason to include them because they are simply restating something already said by the comic.

[Peelee]

If this was true then Rich never would have been asked the question which led to that response.

I have made similar claims before, and have been proven wrong every time. It's surprising.

[snowblizz]

The Giant's recent tweets on what Roy can remember from the afterlife seem relevant.

Helped me it did. I was totally wondering how it all came together vis a vis not remembering anything but Roy seemingly having perfect recollection of stuff. Strip nr 666 be damned.

[pendell]

I would recommend the tweets be included because

1) They are specifically about the comic.
2) They clarify something in-comic that is confusing.


666 does not provide the exact same information, so this is additional data. This is also a useful quick reference for those who don't wish to page through the archives.

*Ponders*

Would that be a useful thread to supplement this one? A thread whose purpose is to cross-reference and index specific strips where questions are answered?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Peelee]

Helped me it did. I was totally wondering how it all came together vis a vis not remembering anything but Roy seemingly having perfect recollection of stuff. Strip nr 666 be damned.

Strip 666, panels 4 and 5, paraphrased: "I remember everything that wasn't past the big golden gates." Strip nr 666 be salvationed.

[Jasdoif]

I think these two quotes are not covering anything that wasn't there in #666 already.

To be completely fair, it is rather ambiguous whether the elevator "shaft" counts as "beyond the Big Golden Gate"....And it's not clear whether Roy finished his jambalaya before he got off the elevator in the clouds, since both events appear to have happened between 600 and 601.

[tomandtish]

To be completely fair, it is rather ambiguous whether the elevator "shaft" counts as "beyond the Big Golden Gate"....And it's not clear whether Roy finished his jambalaya before he got off the elevator in the clouds, since both events appear to have happened between 600 and 601.

Exactly. This clarifies that he has actual memories (fuzzy though they may be) of all of his afterlife, not just the part before the gate. If we just went by 666, then you could argue that he doesn't remember anything concrete past the gate except vague ideas for a sword move.