Thog's Alignment

[Kallisti]

I seriously cannot believe there's been five pages worth of debate on such a clear-cut issue.

Oh, little ice cream friends! Thog delay boredom-driven rampage only for you!
to I pray every day to my dark fiendish overlords that he never finds out we're out of sprinkles.

Chaotic, yes. Evil, yes. End of story.

By the DnD rules, anyone with an Intelligence score high enough to take class levels is intelligent enough to have some moral outlook and qualify for an alignment other than TN.

Thog is CE, but some people don't want to admit it, because everyone loves Thog. I love Thog. He's a great character, he's easy to like, and he makes a great friend. He also murders people to pass the time between ice cream cones. He's evil, but in an endearing way.

[Bibliomancer]

I seriously cannot believe there's been five pages worth of debate on such a clear-cut issue.

Oh, little ice cream friends! Thog delay boredom-driven rampage only for you!
to I pray every day to my dark fiendish overlords that he never finds out we're out of sprinkles.

Chaotic, yes. Evil, yes. End of story.

By the DnD rules, anyone with an Intelligence score high enough to take class levels is intelligent enough to have some moral outlook and qualify for an alignment other than TN.

Thog is CE, but some people don't want to admit it, because everyone loves Thog. I love Thog. He's a great character, he's easy to like, and he makes a great friend. He also murders people to pass the time between ice cream cones. He's evil, but in an endearing way.

However, it might be possible to have class levels without being sentient. Consider the following scenario:

Druid casts awaken on a dog.

The dog goes on some adventurers and levels up as a fighter (sentient animals can take class levels).

The awaken effect is broken by a wizard casting Break Enchantment. Does the dog retain it's class levels?

Anyways, Thog is CE.

[Jaltum]

Great, my argument just got ruined by a gag.

You can forget most of my posts in this thread then.

People have been pointing those events and that comic out for the last four pages.

[Ormur]

Sure he has the mind of a child but aren't kids basically immature sociopaths that can't wield axes with the same skill as Thog?

Being evil doesn't stop him from being lovably cute and crazy since this is just a comic. Yes and he's definitely chaotic. Oots is like a manual for keeping a party with CE PC's functional.

[Jackson]

spargel's argument seems to hinge on the claim that Thog has the intelligence of an infant (as opposed to a child), which is a claim I find fairly dubious. He's clearly behind the purely instinctual meeting of basic needs that drives the thinking of a literal infant. He's capable of exercising choice and agency, able to improvise, and, more surprisingly, able to remember and execute his role in Nale's various needlessly complicated plans (not to mention Elan's plan to get onto an airship).

He's dumb, no doubt. But he's not shown to be quite that dumb. Which is a fairly important distinction to make, apparently.

Also, interestingly, one of the first things he does mention once he reunites with Nale, and well before any mention of ice cream, is killing.

[Bookworm702]

Personally, I like to compare Thog to Buu. Yes he enjoys slaughtering people for fun, but seriously if someone sat down with him for five minutes, explained to him that killing people was wrong, and then gave him an ice cream cone, that would be the end of it.

[Thrax]

Personally, I like to compare Thog to Buu. Yes he enjoys slaughtering people for fun, but seriously if someone sat down with him for five minutes, explained to him that killing people was wrong, and then gave him an ice cream cone, that would be the end of it.

I don't believe it. If someone told Thog that killing is wrong, he would kill that person. And then eat ice creams.

[SadisticFishing]

Err.. when that happened to Buu he split into two people, one even more evil than the original, who ate him.

Seriously, what? Thog is a normal, Chaotic Evil, stupid orc. The end...

[Watcher]

I thought Thog was a half-orc.

[spargel]

People have been pointing those events and that comic out for the last four pages.

No one posted that strip for most of those pages.

[derfenrirwolv]

Assassin
Hit Die

d6.

Requirements

To qualify to become an assassin, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Alignment :Any evil.


Skills: Disguise 4 ranks, Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks.

[Watcher]

How is that relevant?


Off Topic: I fixed my avatar!

[Herald Alberich]

Um ... so? Thog's a barbarian/fighter. The only assassin we've seen is Crystal, and I don't see anyone arguing that she's not Evil.

[Kallisti]

However, it might be possible to have class levels without being sentient. Consider the following scenario:

Druid casts awaken on a dog.

The dog goes on some adventurers and levels up as a fighter (sentient animals can take class levels).

The awaken effect is broken by a wizard casting Break Enchantment. Does the dog retain it's class levels?

Anyways, Thog is CE.

According to the rules as written, yes, it does. Our party did that once--to a rhinocerous. It took levels of Barbarian, with two levels of fighter (just like Thog, actually...), then he turned it back into an animal so he could use Animal Empathy to have it follow him and protect him. That was a weird game...

Personally, I like to compare Thog to Buu. Yes he enjoys slaughtering people for fun, but seriously if someone sat down with him for five minutes, explained to him that killing people was wrong, and then gave him an ice cream cone, that would be the end of it.

Not likely. If Thog liked that person, he'd say, "Thog agrees. Now Thog and all Thog friends go out for ice cream! Yay!" Then five minutes after that, he gets angry/bored/hungry/etc., then forgets the whole "Killing is wrong" thing and kills someone, preferably whoever is responsible for his becoming angry/bored/hungry/etc., but anyone nearby will do. Thog kills people, not because he doesn't know better, but because he feels like it.

[Evil Mastermind]

Thog is Evil, but I think that he's only Evil because Nale is Evil, and Thog always obeys Nale. Thog is simply easy to influence. Remember that Thog killed nobody while he was escaping prison with Elan.

[Trixie]

Um, he almost killed Haley. Going out of his way to do so.

Also, thread necromancy for the win

[Cracklord]

Thog is more evil then Belkar, as Belkar makes some effort to have control over himself, while Thog just gives in to his impulses. And Thog is evil on a broader scale then Belkar, as Belkar's acts, while atrocious, are not actually all that common.

[Spiryt]

Seriously, why people don't read what they fellow playgrounders have written?

I mean, how many times someone can come up with:

"Thog's not evil, he just obeys Nale"?

It's getting a bit boring.

[spargel]

Seriously, why people don't read what they fellow playgrounders have written?

I mean, how many times someone can come up with:

"Thog's not evil, he just obeys Nale"?

It's getting a bit boring.

What about the "Thog is insane" argument?

[Kish]

Completely lacking in textual support, other than that it's unassailable.

[Murdim]

Um ... so? Thog's a barbarian/fighter. The only assassin we've seen is Crystal, and I don't see anyone arguing that she's not Evil.

She's actually a Lawful Good Rogue/Paladin/Avenger. And in love with Haley. And it totally makes sense

[Kaytara]

She's actually a Lawful Good Rogue/Paladin/Avenger. And in love with Haley. And it totally makes sense

The Crack Pairings thread is two doors down, you know. Across the fiery pit of squishy entangling doom.

[Optimystik]

Thog is more evil then Belkar, as Belkar makes some effort to have control over himself, while Thog just gives in to his impulses. And Thog is evil on a broader scale then Belkar, as Belkar's acts, while atrocious, are not actually all that common.

Broader perhaps, but also shallower - Belkar murders of his own volition, but Thog only does so on Nale's command.

DCF Bonus Strip:

Spoiler

Show

When placed in a Zone of Truth, Thog attributes 178 murders (plus the Earth Sylph) to Nale's direction.

He fails his will save so badly that he moves on from the question he was asked and ends up telling the guards several embarrassing details about his life; to me, this indicates that the Nale-inspired killings were the only ones he's done.

I still think he's evil, but more evil than Belkar is quite a stretch.

The Crack Pairings thread is two doors down, you know. Across the fiery pit of squishy entangling doom.

Bring eye bleach!

[Trixie]

Broader perhaps, but also shallower - Belkar murders of his own volition, but Thog only does so on Nale's command.

DCF Bonus Strip:

Spoiler

Show

When placed in a Zone of Truth, Thog attributes 178 murders (plus the Earth Sylph) to Nale's direction.

I still think he's evil, but more evil than Belkar is quite a stretch.

And then, he committed further 417 here. That's ~600 kills, order of magnitude more than Belkar (even counting the SSGoW incident)

[Kish]

You're seriously suggesting that Belkar hasn't killed 600 innocent people in his life?

[hamishspence]

We have no idea how many- there were the people in the bar, referred to in Origin, the barbarians, the prison guard, and Solt Lykyurg the gnome. But aside from those, we don't know.

[Optimystik]

And then, he committed further 417 here. That's ~600 kills, order of magnitude more than Belkar (even counting the SSGoW incident)

Those were also all at Nale's direction, as they were all part of his plan.

We have no idea how many- there were the people in the bar, referred to in Origin, the barbarians, the prison guard, and Solt Lykyurg the gnome. But aside from those, we don't know.

His nickname in Celestia - "Death's 'lil helper" - indicates he's been quite busy at it.

And if Thog is so close to Belkar on the evil scale, why isn't Celestia tracking him?

[spargel]

Completely lacking in textual support, other than that it's unassailable.

Other than the way he acts throughout the entire comic?

[Optimystik]

Other than the way he acts throughout the entire comic?

He's not insane. Childish, perhaps, but he's certainly aware of what he's doing and what's going on around him. His "not-nale" speech confirmed that.

[spargel]

He's not insane. Childish, perhaps, but he's certainly aware of what he's doing and what's going on around him. His "not-nale" speech confirmed that.

Mentally retarded then? He could probably try an insanity defense and succeed.

I don't even think his not-nale speech makes any sense.