The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel (now planning settings and routes)

[Prime32]

Hence why I suggested that the 'mutation' could be nothing more than unusual skin-colour (at least to start with- we could then ratchet things up a little later on depending on the route in question)...

Skin colour is a little less subtle than funny ears, bumpy foreheads or markings.

I was unaware that it was taken to quite that degree. However, since the chosen are at-least partially human still, they'll have irrational dislikes, same as anyone else- same should be true of the Imperial Federation... There will be poeple who consider muttering to yourself- for example- to be just as creepy as being a chosen, and similarly there might be a reaction amongst the chosen where the mere idea of being entirely human brings about utter revulsion. If there is even the slightest bit of humanity on the side of the chosen, this ought to work both ways.

I don't think they need to be that inhuman.

True, it needs a degree of subtlety and humanity at least at first- but we can always ratchet things up a notch after the big reveal (possibly newly discovered benefits to mutation later on- which could lead to the mutation of characters who were previously mostly human).

[nothingclever]

Basically, an overall "sense" of what the Chosen are like, with the underlying question being, "What sort of society would a group of people become if they were exposed to eldritch horrors for centuries?"

The first question, therefore, is; what sort of elder evils are we working with?

I think we all started the project with the very vague notion that we're dealing with Lovecraftian evils toned down just enough so that, under the right conditions, humanity can pretty much defeat them for good.

This may mean that I'll have to go read actual Lovecraft books, which is something I'm really not looking forward to.

I personally thought it was silly but I didn't say anything because you guys seemed to love your Cthulhus and ftagns.

*reads profile again*

...Kasanip, now I'm picturing you as Ranka.

And when you say that I picture her as this.

I would like to see some short 'monologue' speech for the characters to see how their personality works. Though this isn't quite about 'uniform,' it would be interesting to me to visualize better. Maybe it is a 'two birds one stone' moment.

Sounds like a good idea to me. I'll work on that for Kara.

I personally would prefer to have the chosen be the way they are because of simple pragmatism. Maybe the aliens do a bunch of terrible things to part of the human population but the rest are happy that they have advanced technology/"magic" out of their relationship with them. Maybe whatever mutations they have are beneficial so even if some of them look fugly by regular standards they don't mind much. Maybe being branded/marked/cursed is considered bad at first but later is considered a sign of pride and a blessing. eg. "Boy I sure like my gills! I swim like a champ! They aren't so bad after all! The gill-less are chumps!" Maybe our aliens are in some way vampiric or they demand tribute and unswerving loyalty but they don't brainwash everyone and threaten the entire population with death. Maybe they aren't crazy or beyond comprehension like Lovecraft aliens.

[Prime32]

I think I'd prefer mutation as a status symbol reserved for the highest-ranking members of the theocracy (it might not have a particularly high survival rate). And their media play up how tragic Roag is for being visibly deformed - Chosen society is superior because people like him can be accepted and no matter who you are you can rise to a higher station. Maybe he was a former test subject.

I would like to see some short 'monologue' speech for the characters to see how their personality works. Though this isn't quite about 'uniform,' it would be interesting to me to visualize better. Maybe it is a 'two birds one stone' moment.

I dunno about monologue, but I could give you some stuff on how I imagine Ila's personality working.

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When Ila "disappeared" she was taken in by Roag. He spotted potential in her and told her of the Chosen's goals (not the real ones, obviously). She fell in love with the ideals, and for a time the man, but recently her faith has started to be shaken.

The Chosen commit many atrocities in the war. Ila keeps telling herself that the end is worth it, but all the same... she is very quick to punish any of her troops who harm civilians, for each time something like that happens she becomes frightened that she might be wrong. If the very objective of a mission is cruel then Ila will try to get it done as quickly as possible. When the Chosen score a victory, the battle leaders will make grand speeches of the glory they have won which the crowds eat up, but Ila finds it hard to talk about battle so pleasantly and seldom does so. As a result of these behaviours she tends to come across as cold. Since the war started Ila has felt distanced from Roag - he seems a little too enthusiastic about the whole affair, even if he tells her it's just for the public.

[13_CBS]

The current discussion on the Chosen is excellent and interesting, but I must ask everyone to not totally forget about uniforms.

One last check: the final plan for female bridge crew uniforms is this:

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...including color scheme decisions and length of skirt. If you have any major objections, voice them now. Going once...going twice...

Also, I'd still like opinions on what color scheme to go for on the Imperial flag: nothingclever's color scheme, or the other one?


In other words, this:

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Versus this:

Spoiler

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And finally, our basic outline on what Bridge Crew uniforms look like:

Bridge Crew Dress Uniform
a- Overall appearance and style should be similar to the combat uniform to aid overall recognition, but more flamboyant. This uniform isn't designed for combat, so pants and skirts is a reasonable option, and we can make the skirts shorter here (possibly by imperial edict).
b- colour scheme should be the same as the combat uniform, but with additional epaulets and gold piping
c- hats are probably a must here- although we might do better with helmets- if only because they look good in formal parades and ceremonies. However, these should come from an ex-imperial nation such as this or possibly this.
d- Again, boots to the mid-calf for footwear, but given the ceremonial treatment with gold piping and buttons.
e- Insignia should be a separate piece and be transferred from combat uniform to dress uniform depending on which you're wearing at the time, but the dress uniform would, where appropriate have rows of medals beneath the insignia.

...I'll see if I can maybe get a concept art sketch of it up sometime this week, if Kasanip doesn't get to it first.


---------------------------------------------

I would like to see some short 'monologue' speech for the characters to see how their personality works. Though this isn't quite about 'uniform,' it would be interesting to me to visualize better. Maybe it is a 'two birds one stone' moment.

I'm assuming that you want the monologue to be about the character before he/she develops into something else? That is, the way the characters are at the beginning of the story?
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On the Chosen issue: I guess our new question is how we want to portray them. It looks like the core of the current debate is between making the Chosen be inhuman and making them humanized.

So...yeah. Which version shall we go for? Humanized enemies (the Chosen are simply people with a different culture and different set of values) or inhuman enemies (the Chosen on monstrous slaves of horrible space beings, bent on annihilating everything we hold dear)?

I personally would prefer the former, if only because I like my stories to be morally Gray. This ultimately isn't a critical issue, as long as the eldritch horrors are done the way the must be done.

Speaking of which, how the eldritch horrors are portrayed is up to you guys, as long as the following condition is met for the sake the theme; the eldritch horror must be sufficiently powerful and fear-inducing enough to metaphorically represent the many obstacles that lie between a person and the fulfillment of that person's dream. I'm personally fine with having either eldritch horrors be unknowable horrors in the style of Lovecraft, or something else entirely as nothingclever would like to have it.

[Prime32]

One last check: the final plan for female bridge crew uniforms is this:

Spoiler

Show

...including color scheme decisions and length of skirt. If you have any major objections, voice them now. Going once...going twice...

As I said, I'd prefer a shorter jacket and a change in the colour of the trim (but not of the coloured panels). And maybe slightly darker.

Also, I'd still like opinions on what color scheme to go for on the Imperial flag: nothingclever's color scheme, or the other one?


In other words, this:

Spoiler

Show

Versus this:

Spoiler

Show

nc's.

And finally, our basic outline on what Bridge Crew uniforms look like:

Bridge Crew Dress Uniform
a- Overall appearance and style should be similar to the combat uniform to aid overall recognition, but more flamboyant. This uniform isn't designed for combat, so pants and skirts is a reasonable option, and we can make the skirts shorter here (possibly by imperial edict).
b- colour scheme should be the same as the combat uniform, but with additional epaulets and gold piping
c- hats are probably a must here- although we might do better with helmets- if only because they look good in formal parades and ceremonies. However, these should come from an ex-imperial nation such as this or possibly this.
d- Again, boots to the mid-calf for footwear, but given the ceremonial treatment with gold piping and buttons.
e- Insignia should be a separate piece and be transferred from combat uniform to dress uniform depending on which you're wearing at the time, but the dress uniform would, where appropriate have rows of medals beneath the insignia.

I'd expect the dress uniforms to have longer skirts. But then, I'm not a military expert and I'm not an eccentric Emperor.

On the Chosen issue: I guess our new question is how we want to portray them. It looks like the core of the current debate is between making the Chosen be inhuman and making them humanized.

So...yeah. Which version shall we go for? Humanized enemies (the Chosen are simply people with a different culture and different set of values) or inhuman enemies (the Chosen on monstrous slaves of horrible space beings, bent on annihilating everything we hold dear)?

I personally would prefer the former, if only because I like my stories to be morally Gray. This ultimately isn't a critical issue, as long as the eldritch horrors are done the way the must be done.

I prefer humans, though the upper ranks of the cult might have some weirdos.

Speaking of which, how the eldritch horrors are portrayed is up to you guys, as long as the following condition is met for the sake the theme; the eldritch horror must be sufficiently powerful and fear-inducing enough to metaphorically represent the many obstacles that lie between a person and the fulfillment of that person's dream. I'm personally fine with having either eldritch horrors be unknowable horrors in the style of Lovecraft, or something else entirely as nothingclever would like to have it.

KD, NC? Get Draken in here.

[13_CBS]

KD, NC? Get Draken in here.

...

[nothingclever]

I don't know. I'm lost too. Maybe he's referring to the fact that he, KD, Draken and I are all in BleachitP. Oh yeah, and Draken loves designing Lovecraftian eldritch horrors and all things spooky.

[KnightDisciple]

I don't know. I'm lost too. Maybe he's referring to the fact that he, KD, Draken and I are all in BleachitP. Oh yeah, and Draken loves designing Lovecraftian eldritch horrors and all things spooky.

Pretty much this.

Draken is the go-to guy over there for unspeakable horrors.

[Prime32]

I don't know. I'm lost too. Maybe he's referring to the fact that he, KD, Draken and I are all in BleachitP. Oh yeah, and Draken loves designing Lovecraftian eldritch horrors and all things spooky.

This is Draken's character.

[nothingclever]

This is Draken's character.

The hand on the right looks like it's holding a mouse with a skull design on it. Also I feel he is channeling White Wolf's Wraith.
I think we can do better.

[Draken]

I have heard a call from beyond!
As in, from outside GitP forums, KD mentioned this to me over instant messenger. I don't check this area a whole lot, just Kasanip's sketchbook every now and then.

Hey look, it is Revlid's drawing of Pesadelo. Pretty awesome image there.

White Text Edit: This is media discussions. Not Arts and Crafts. Let me change what I said. I pretty much never come here.

[horngeek]

Draken is the go-to for Unspeakable Horrors. Partially because of Draken the ACRO character.

What are those bugs called again?

Anyway: they seem to want your advice for their Cosmic Horrors.

[13_CBS]

@ Draken: to get you caught up on things...

We're basically discussing what sort of eldritch space horror we want to implement for our sci-fi giant robot series. The current debate is over whether we want Lovecraft-style unknowable, unspeakable creatures, or just very powerful space aliens.

As I said, I'd prefer a shorter jacket and a change in the colour of the trim (but not of the coloured panels). And maybe slightly darker.

Alright. I'll see what I can do.

What color do you want the trim to be?

I'd expect the dress uniforms to have longer skirts. But then, I'm not a military expert and I'm not an eccentric Emperor.

What?! Prime objecting to ZR?!

IMPOSTOR



Ok, but seriously...it'll be easy enough to change dress uniform skirt lengths to something longer.

[Draken]

@horngeek: Kyorl'Zuraj and Karish. Your standard legion of space ants. Not locusts. Locusts come, devour and leave. Ants settle and you will never be rid of them.

So. Any preferences? The sentient insect swarm? Dogmatic Aliens? Living World (so much potential!)?

So many possibilities!

Oooh. I have never tried The Ones From Another Dimension.

Then again I had those Marans I never much anything with... You would like them. Mirror people. Pretty nice when they are not glassing terraforming glassing worlds.

[13_CBS]

So. Any preferences? The sentient insect swarm? Dogmatic Aliens? Living World (so much potential!)?

So many possibilities!

At the moment, the form of the eldritch horror isn't the issue as much as what sort of eldritch horror we want: Lovecraft-style unknowable horror (Cthulhu) vs just a big, ugly space alien (something like...say...The Reapers from Mass Effect).

As I said in in an above post, the point of the eldritch horrors is to metaphorically represent the obstacles that stand in the way between a person and the fulfillment of that person's dreams.

[Draken]

Hmm...

If I might say. Something that appears as defeatable as anything else in the short run but is in truth much, much more powerful than expected in the long run works better. Crushes that small spark of hope from the hearts of the common man instead of just driving everyone depressive or making they pray they will go unnoticed.

So I will recommend the threatening species. Not the giant thing adrift in space. There are asteroids for that.

Scratch that. Went to see the second example of the reapers. Legion of giant things.

Hmm...

In this particular case I will recommend one truly titanic thing that spawns giant things. So... A living world. Like Phaaze.

[nothingclever]

I kind of like the living world idea. I think it would be neat if the aliens are somehow able to control/commune with the planet(s) and terraform it/them in exchange for the loyalty of the inhabitants. There might be mutations that are visually superficial that allow the humans to handle the climate better.

[13_CBS]

I kind of like the living world idea. I think it would be neat if the aliens are somehow able to control/commune with the planet(s) and terraform it/them in exchange for the loyalty of the inhabitants. There might be mutations that are visually superficial that allow the humans to handle the climate better.

FYI, at the moment the Chosen are based on Alpha Centauri.

So...I'm a little apprehensive about making the planet a living creature.

[Draken]

Isn't the idea of the eldritch horror to be an opposing force? Having it diplomatic and helpful towards humanity is somewhat... Counterproductive to the task, is it not?

[13_CBS]

Isn't the idea of the eldritch horror to be an opposing force? Having it diplomatic and helpful towards humanity is somewhat... Counterproductive to the task, is it not?

He's referring to the Chosen, a group of humans stranded on Alpha Centauri that eventually become the servants of...whatever creature we decide upon. If the Chosen are to become the creatures' minions, then it'd make sense for the creatures to provide some sort of benefit for them, especially since we want the Chosen to at least somewhat amiable towards the creatures.


I'm assuming that there are no further opinions on Bridge Crew dress uniforms, aside from Prime's suggestion for lengthening the skirts. Again, I'll see if I can come up with concept art in a few days.

[nothingclever]

FYI, at the moment the Chosen are based on Alpha Centauri.

So...I'm a little apprehensive about making the planet a living creature.

Well I only said I kind of liked it. What I really meant was that I like the idea of the aliens sort of being part of the planet in the sense that they can control parts of its atmosphere and what not either through technology or some power that seems magical to outsiders. It would give the humans a reason to worship them. Maybe some of the aliens are large stationary beings that are pretty much part of the environment because they never move and people either come to them directly to talk or they communicate electronically. The world itself being alive sounds a bit much for me.

[Draken]

I see.

Anyway. Here is my suggestion or extremely rough outline.

1. Living World thing sends "terraforming seed" to planet. Living World can be anywhere in the universe, that's what wormholes are for.

2. Seed begins process. Byosphere carried over from Living World begins to multiply, including sentients. Maybe Xenomorph beings.

3. Sentient xenomorphs assume humanoid shape (by taking the shape from local humans) and make contact with humans, what happens next? ???

4. Alien cult begins. Profit.

[13_CBS]

What I really meant was that I like the idea of the aliens sort of being part of the planet in the sense that they can control parts of its atmosphere and what not either through technology or some power that seems magical to outsiders. It would give the humans a reason to worship them. Maybe some of the aliens are large stationary beings that are pretty much part of the environment because they never move and people either come to them directly to talk or they communicate electronically.

Fair enough...I actually like the sound of that, too.

Said aliens will still need a way to be powerful enough to challenge Imperial ships, of course; giant terraformers, while understandably awe-striking to puny humans, aren't quite as impressive when they get vaporized by orbital bombardment. (See: Eternal Silence superweapon, wielded by our very own Kamia Kasei)

[nothingclever]

Isn't that where the Chosen come in with their pew pew pew lasers to repel invaders? How about the aliens give them advanced technology and resources so even if their military is smaller they make up for it with larger better ships? They could mostly live deep underground too to avoid bombardment.

[horngeek]

An alternate idea: Alpha Centauri is where the world is at the moment.

In actual fact: it can move. Think Zonama Sketot from the New Jedi Order series...

but Cosmic Horror.

[Draken]

The spaceship matter is something that I can't place in a rough outline.

But right now I was still thinking of a few minor adaptations to the original marans. And they had a nice starship. Easily maneuverable. Powered by solar winds.

And obviously, a giant space heat cannon used to glass worlds. First step of maran colonization. Vitrify the surface. Second stage, add chlorine to the oceans, add sulphur to the atmosphere, burn away atmospheric protections against solar radiation. Third step, add marraenic (their homeworld, Marraen) byoforms.

Quite the simple process.

[13_CBS]

Isn't that where the Chosen come in with their pew pew pew lasers to repel invaders?

That's valid, but I feel that having the alien(s) also be an active threat (that is, it'll pop out of the planet, fly into space, and tear up your ships with its bare hands) fits the metaphor a little better.

...

Idea: what if the nature of the alien changed from route to route?

* For Siela's idealistic route, we could have the alien be the terraforming, tech providing entity that you envision, and the final scene involves an epic space battle to get rid of the alien's bodyguards and the alien itself.

* For Kara's realistic route, we could have the alien be both a terraforming, tech providing entity that's also capable of defending itself more than adequately, even without its Chosen bodyguards.

* For Kamia's dark route, we could have the alien be a nigh-unstoppable creature, something that cannot be defeated by the efforts of puny, puny humans.

Thoughts?

How about the aliens give them advanced technology and resources so even if their military is smaller they make up for it with larger better ships?

I think that's what the rest of us have been thinking, actually (or, at least, I was).

They could mostly live deep underground too to avoid bombardment.

Hmm...possibly.

[nothingclever]

Thoughts?

Sounds fine with me. How about there being small possibly humanoid ones and also the gigantic ones you want? Maybe the giant aliens have arrived on the planet with a race of humanoids already around to serve them? They could do most of the talking with the humans for their larger overlords. Maybe only the top chosen know about the massive ones. This would also explain who indoctrinates the humans, gives them their alien customs and sells the idea that mutations aren't so bad while still having big monstrosities that can make people go temporarily insane when they see them.

[Draken]

After getting mildly lost at your last post I went to take a look at the opener and got a stronger grip of the main tale here, should be capable of providing better help now.

Idea: what if the nature of the alien changed from route to route?

An evolving story is always better than a static one.

* For Siela's idealistic route, we could have the alien be the terraforming, tech providing entity that you envision, and the final scene involves an epic space battle to get rid of the alien's bodyguards and the alien itself.

Sounds about right.

* For Kara's realistic route, we could have the alien be both a terraforming, tech providing entity that's also capable of defending itself more than adequately, even without its Chosen bodyguards.

Essentialy very similar to the other route, but with more violence.

* For Kamia's dark route, we could have the alien be a nigh-unstoppable creature, something that cannot be defeated by the efforts of puny, puny humans.

The "bad ending", can't say this isn't the course of action I like the most.

Either way. An alien threat must have the means to be a threat, that is a given. When designing one you must not think "why don't they just nuke 'em?" you must think "why is it pointless to just nuke 'em?".

Another point where my Maran concept shows promise. They thrive in radioactive, caustic environments. Human's can't just destroy them with their normal means. Specialy if they go underground, which should be the first defense option of any race at space war, if planetary shielding is not avaiable.

[13_CBS]

The "bad ending", can't say this isn't the course of action I like the most.

Perhaps, but that's the point of the route.

...actually, just wondering, but do you know how our visual novel is going to be structured? That may clear up some confusion.