LGBTAitp - Part Eighteen!

[KenderWizard]

Hi everyone! And welcome to the all-grown-up excellent eighteenth incarnation of the LGBTAitp thread!

This is a thread where we Playgrounders, and LGBTAitp in particular, gather to discuss, share our experiences, give general advice and support one another in such matters as arise relating to, well, the world beyond heteronormativity.

Please note that although the title of the thread names only the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, and Asexual communities, it is intended as an all inclusive environment.

• Everyone is welcome. Let's try to keep from seeming otherwise.
• Keep this topic free of politics and religion. (so, don't violate the board rules, plz)
• It's beyond the scope of this thread to discuss whether LGBT is "Right." (And really, most discussions probably should avoid moralizing too much anyway)
• Please refrain from posting sexually explicit content. (Keep it friendly as well as board safe )

If you would rather be anonymous when asking for advice or sharing your story or views, you can use the address below to send a message to be posted in this thread via proxy.

http://anonmail.smeenet.org/

Keep in mind that content which contain strong language may be filtered (Plus, y'know, the forum-filters), and content that violates the forum rules won't be posted at all.

Here are the links for the previous threads, where much of use or interest may be found:

1. LGBT people in the playground
   
2. LGBT people in the playground - part II
   
3. LGBTitp - part III
   
4. LGBTitp 4: We are a family?
   
5. LGBTitp - Part Five
   
6. LGBTitp - Part Six
   
7. LGBTitp - Part Seven
   
8. LGBTitp - Part Eight
   
9. LGBTitp - Part Nine
   
10. LGBTAitp - Part Ten
    
11. LGBTAitp - Part Eleven
    
12. LGBTAitp - Part Twelve
    
13. LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen
    
14. LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen
    
15. LGBTAitp - Part Fifteen
    
16. LGBTAitp - Part Sixteen
    
17. LGBTAitp - Part Seventeen

And, for reference, here is the Thousand&Wordster Dictionary of Commonly Used LGBTAitp Words and Phrases

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Lagerbeta: A fine brewski to be drunk by queers and allies.
LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*
Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender
LGBTA: LGBT+Asexual/Allies
QUILTBAG:

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Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender, Transexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual
G - Gay, Genderqueer

Allies: Straight people that support equality for sexuality and gender minorities.
MtF: Male-to-Female: A woman born with male nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans woman)
FtM: Female-to-Male: A man born with female nibblies, who may or may not be seeking HRT and/or SRS. (AKA: trans man)
GQ: Genderqueer.
CS: Cis-sexual: sex and gender match (a male with male nibblies, a female with female nibblies.
TS: Transsexual: Sex and gender disparity.
HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's take more progestrogens and oestrogens and FtM's take more testosterone (I think?)
SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa depending on direction. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.
FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Plastic surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. Not very common.

Man: A cisman or transman. Male.
Woman: A ciswoman or transwoman. Female.
Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.
Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between male and female.
Agendered: Someone who feels neither male nor female.
Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa.
Masculine: Something generally associated with men.
Feminine: Something generally associated with women.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.
Gay: A man who is attracted to men.
Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their gender.
Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.
Bisexual: A person who is attracted to both male and female people.
Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender.
Asexual: A person who does not feel any/some sexual attraction.
Demisexual: A person who is only sexually attracted to someone(s) they have formed an intense emotional relationship with.
Androsexual: A person (of any gender identity) who is sexually attracted to the male-bodied form.
Gynosexual: A person (of any gender identity) who is sexually attracted to the female-bodied form
Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.
Radosexual: A person who is only attracted to rad people.
Pomosexual: A person who avoids SO labels.

Sexual Orientation: How one identifies who they are attracted to. (SO)
Gender Identity: How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other". (GI)
Gender Expression: How one expresses their GI to society. (GE)
Significant Other(s): Person you are in a relationship with. (SO)

[Nix Nihila]

New thread!

Thanks everyone for the hugs and well-wishes (and lollipops). And I always fancied myself as a spy when I was little, so that's a fun way to look at it too! Neither LGBT stuff nor religious stuff has been brought up in my visit so far, so I'm not in a fountain of hate exactly, but it's still pretty awful to present as male.

*hugs*

I hope you get through it without too much suckiness.

Slightly off-topic: I know you've had your new avi for a while, but just wanted to say that it's really rad.

Thanks! I'm rather fond of it too.

[The Succubus]

"LGBTAitp Eighteen: We're legally allowed to now!"

...or some other reference to the age of consent.

EDIT: Huh, never came across the term "Pomosexual" until I checked the dictionary above. Is it something to do with Australians that are attracted to us British types?

[Al'izh'dheg]

New thread!

Thanks everyone for the hugs and well-wishes (and lollipops). And I always fancied myself as a spy when I was little, so that's a fun way to look at it too! Neither LGBT stuff nor religious stuff has been brought up in my visit so far, so I'm not in a fountain of hate exactly, but it's still pretty awful to present as male.



Thanks! I'm rather fond of it too.

Heya Nix, good to hear. I'm glad it's not turning out *quite* as bad as you were thinking. I also hope you had a good dinner last night. :)

Edit: I forgot to thank you for posting. I've been worried about you as Thanksgiving approached.

[Asta Kask]

LGBTA Eighteen - no longer jailbait!

Those of you in non-English countries - what is the local equivalent of LGBTA?

In Sweden it's HBT (Homo-, Bi-, Transsexuality). Asexuals haven't been discovered over here.

[KenderWizard]

"LGBTAitp Eighteen: We're legally allowed to now!"

...or some other reference to the age of consent.

LGBTA Eighteen - no longer jailbait!

I was thinking of it, but I didn't want to be all about the sex. Also, age of consent is different in different places, so that'd be a bit weird. (We've been legal for a whole thread as far as I'm concerned! ) I did say in the welcome line that we're all-grown-up!

[Mina Kobold]

What about a thread name having to do with voting? Or golf!

Rainbow golf!

I also forgot to do something last thread, sorry.

*Glomps Nix Nihila*

[Qaera]

EDIT: Huh, never came across the term "Pomosexual" until I checked the dictionary above. Is it something to do with Australians that are attracted to us British types?

It's kind of a joke, for me at least. The Pomo stands for "postmodern" so it's like, moving beyond sexuality labels. I think of it kind of like pansexuals, like you're attracted to who you're attracted to and the rest doesn't really matter.

I'm kind of surprised that my list got there.

~ ♅

[Astrella]

LGBTA Eighteen - no longer jailbait!

Those of you in non-English countries - what is the local equivalent of LGBTA?

In Sweden it's HBT (Homo-, Bi-, Transsexuality). Asexuals haven't been discovered over here.

Holebi around here. (Which stands for "Homo, lesbisch of biseksueel." Trans* isn't included; though transgender is the all-encompassing term for it around here.)

I'm kind of surprised that my list got there.

List is handy.

Also, *glomps*.

[bluewind95]

I like "LGBTAitp Eighteen: We're legally allowed to now!" because it kind of references not only age of consent, but the fact this thread was made a little earlier than usual. We're legally allowed to that now .

[KenderWizard]

It's kind of a joke, for me at least. The Pomo stands for "postmodern" so it's like, moving beyond sexuality labels. I think of it kind of like pansexuals, like you're attracted to who you're attracted to and the rest doesn't really matter.

I'm kind of surprised that my list got there.

~ ♅

It's really useful and you clearly put some effort into it!

If anyone has anything they want to add to it, by the way, let me know!

Also, I really like holebi!

[noparlpf]

"LGBTAitp Eighteen: We're legally allowed to now!"

...or some other reference to the age of consent.

I'm going to school in Massachusetts, so the age of consent is sixteen. I'm also used to Connecticut laws, and it's also sixteen there. (Though according to my twelfth-grade CT law class, there's no age of consent for males...I'm not sure how accurate that is.)

[Al'izh'dheg]

LGBTA Eighteen - no longer jailbait!

Those of you in non-English countries - what is the local equivalent of LGBTA?

In Sweden it's HBT (Homo-, Bi-, Transsexuality). Asexuals haven't been discovered over here.

I've been meaning to ask about asexuality. It seems like I've seen it used in two different contexts. One seems to be an indication of a lack of sexual desire/drive. This definition doesn't seem to preclude romance, but describes a lack of wanting to take that romance to the sexual realm of touching, etc.

The other definition seems to instead refer not to orientation but to gender identity. This reference seems to indicate they do not identify themselves as male or female, but either something in between (something I would call gender-fluid), or that they are "gender blind". Gender just doesn't matter to them at all.

Which of these definitions is the "correct" one, and what is the other really called? Or are they both correct and you're supposed to figure out which one through context?

[noparlpf]

I've been meaning to ask about asexuality. It seems like I've seen it used in two different contexts. One seems to be an indication of a lack of sexual desire/drive. This definition doesn't seem to preclude romance, but describes a lack of wanting to take that romance to the sexual realm of touching, etc.

The other definition seems to instead refer not to orientation but to gender identity. This reference seems to indicate they do not identify themselves as male or female, but either something in between (something I would call gender-fluid), or that they are "gender blind". Gender just doesn't matter to them at all.

Which of these definitions is the "correct" one, and what is the other really called? Or are they both correct and you're supposed to figure out which one through context?

When I say that I'm asexual, I mean that I don't have a sex drive, but I do have a gender identity; I am cis-male. I usually hear "agendered" used to refer to "gender-blind" people.

[Mina Kobold]

I've been meaning to ask about asexuality. It seems like I've seen it used in two different contexts. One seems to be an indication of a lack of sexual desire/drive. This definition doesn't seem to preclude romance, but describes a lack of wanting to take that romance to the sexual realm of touching, etc.

The other definition seems to instead refer not to orientation but to gender identity. This reference seems to indicate they do not identify themselves as male or female, but either something in between (something I would call gender-fluid), or that they are "gender blind". Gender just doesn't matter to them at all.

Which of these definitions is the "correct" one, and what is the other really called? Or are they both correct and you're supposed to figure out which one through context?

Never heard anyone use asexual as anything but a lack of sexual interest or desire. I personally would use agendered or gender-queer to describe the gender variety, but I am no expert on orientational semantics.

Do take my experience with a grain of apeppered salt, though. I have met few in the physical world who even know what asexuality is.

[KenderWizard]

I don't think I've come across asexual to mean "gender blind". I would always think of it as "not interested in sexual relations" or "of no sexual orientation".

[Anethiel]

My magical redirect link to the latest post of the latest LGBTAitP thread has been updated. (By the way, it's also available through the banner in my signature).

Also, fresh and awesome news: starting today, gay couples living in the city of Naples (Italy) can register their civil union.
Italy currently has no nation-wide recognition of same-sex unions, but they will have the same rights of married couples for everything pertaining to the municipal administration (eg. municipal housing). They also will be able to obtain a "family status" document from the municipality, stating that they are a registered family.
Naples is the third large city to introduce this type of recognition, after Turin and Milan. I'm extra happy for this because I live in a town near Naples and, if everything goes smooth, I should move to the city itself by the next 6 months.

[SMEE]

I find myself very confused. In real life, I'm pretty "normal". I'm attracted to girls, and I know what I like when I see it. It's my fantasy life that confuses me. Namely the parts where I fantasize about a heterosexual encounter, except that I'm the girl. My fantasies aren't exclusively that, but the fact that those exist at all confuses me. Normal? Slightly odd? Thoughts?

This is just in at the anonmail.

[Mono Vertigo]

In response to the anonmail:
Before all, if you describe it as a fantasy, then it is just that, a fantasy. A sort of fetish that is extremely unlikely happen, but still is pleasing to imagine. Much like dreams, it doesn't have to mean anything deep about yourself. It doesn't have to mean you actually are a girl.
Now, if you imagine yourself as a girl in other contexts or find yourself regretting your body is not that of a girl, then it may be worth investigating further.
Alone, though, fantasies that don't leave the realm of your mind... not very concerning.
Hope it helps.

[Yora]

I regard such a thing as being part of me being of androgyne gender. I think sexual reproduction with individuals specialized for parts of mating was one of the big mistakes of evolution.
We should all have been like snails. Anyone with anyone, it's a match!

As I see it, even with all our openness regarding gender, the dynamics of relationships, especially romanic ones, are influenced by gender. You can't just transfer a specific scenario to other people who would be a different combination of genders. And if a specific situation seems appealing to you, it might just not work with your in your own sex.

If it is an indicator for (but not proof!) for a possible genderqueer identity, I don't know. For me it is, and I only realized that when I was 23.

LGBTA Eighteen - no longer jailbait!

Those of you in non-English countries - what is the local equivalent of LGBTA?

We are germans, we are cooler! We don't translate new words.

Or we are so lame, that when completely lack vital concepts and out of sheer frustration sometimes have to resolve to use whatever english had to offer. I'm not sure.

[Triscuitable]

New thread!

Thanks everyone for the hugs and well-wishes (and lollipops). And I always fancied myself as a spy when I was little, so that's a fun way to look at it too! Neither LGBT stuff nor religious stuff has been brought up in my visit so far, so I'm not in a fountain of hate exactly, but it's still pretty awful to present as male.



Thanks! I'm rather fond of it too.

I'd forgotten to mention how much your avatar has picked up in awesomeness!

[Heliomance]

I also assumed that pomosexual meant attraction to Brits :P

And you're still missing andro/gynosexual.

[Yora]

So pomosexual is what hipsters are?

[noparlpf]

So pomosexual is what hipsters are?

I think it means people who are attracted to hipsters.

[Lanaya]

Anonmail: How about that. I was just about to ask the exact same thing, except my fantasies are exclusively about being the girl. Even if I force myself to fantasise about the male perspective, it just doesn't do it for me at all. No idea if there's any kind of cause behind it or fancy name to use, but at least you're not alone.

[H Birchgrove]

@ A bit confused: I wish I could help you there, but I think the other posters have said what can be said on the topic.

<.<

>.>

I have imagined how it would be like to be female, but while it would be interesting in many regards, the moment I remember how much I resemble my sister even as a male, I shudder and stop thinking about it. When I've thought about it in terms of a story with an Author Avatar, it's solved with the Wizard/Cleric character using illusions or something to make me look like a blonde or Asian or...

"What is this I don't even and who are those Asians you keep talking about?"

... anyway, after some time the Wizard/Cleric removes curse spell on the Belt of Changing Gender and it's back to status quo.

I suppose this could serve as a warming up for what I planned to post.

Even before I posted the link to the crappy article short text about and the photo gallery with the gorgeous Japanese (trans)woman, I've realised that I feel attraction toward pre-op transwomen. Not as much as ciswomen or post-op transwomen, perhaps, but definately as much as toward cismen. I wouldn't mind being with a transman, but I don't think about transmen as much, I've to confess.

But for some reason, I feel ashamed of it. I don't feel this ashamed of being bi (unless I consider my family's hypothetical reactions to coming out of the closet, though that is less about being ashamed and more about being worried). Maybe I'm worried that transpersons would be disturbed that I or any other cisperson would feel attraction when they still have the "wrong" parts. Because this I admit: I wouldn't mind having sex with a woman with male genitals or a man with female ones. (I've also watched porn with transwomen, and I *liked* it despite the idiotic use of the slang term that I'll avoid if possible. At least they got pronouns right.) But if the hypotethical girlfriend or boyfriend wanted to go through Sex Reassignment Surgery, I would support her or him all the way and beyond.

Please comment.

[KenderWizard]

I also assumed that pomosexual meant attraction to Brits :P

And you're still missing andro/gynosexual.

Can you make definitions for them and I'll pop them in?


@H Birchgrove: I always think you can't really help what you find attractive in a person, and I don't see anything there that you should be ashamed about. You seem to be open and accepting, and I don't think someone could ask more from you than that. Then, I'm not trans+, so there could be things I don't pick up on.

[Coidzor]

Can you make definitions for them and I'll pop them in?

Bam?

androsexual - sexually attracted to the male-bodied form.

gynosexual - sexually attracted to the female-bodied form.

[golentan]

Hey, new thread. For the Awesome!

[Yora]

Well, it's a complicated issue, which I've always been thinking a lot about.

Attraction to trans-people is a difficult thing. On the one hand, you could just ignore it. But that would be like denying the fact that they are able and have the right to have a sexual life as well. Or you admit your attraction and then you are getting turned on by a condition that causes the people who are affected by it considerable suffering and harship.
Shying away from transsexuality is unfair, being open to it exploits transsexuals. Either way, you could feel bad.

I think for myself, I have come to the solution to think "I find these people attractive, but I would do so if they were not transsexual as well". Once again, pansexuality comes to the rescue.

I also have to admit, that I am very open to sexual relationships with trans-people, but the thought of sexual reasignment surgery makes me feel uncomfortable.I know I should support it and should feel happy for the people who finally can feel a bit more normal than they used to, but I think it would be something really difficult for me to handle.