Belkar vs. Roy (DEATHMATCH)

[Fyraltari]

That panel is part of Roy's most mentally unstable moment in this comic. And the worst thing he did is drawing his sword and threatening Belkar. I can't see him killing Belkar, unless Belkar do something horrible veyond compare.

So you can picture him killing Belkar. That is within the realm of possiblity. As the Original Poster said this is a "what if" scenario. Imagine that Belkar just murdered Celia, Julia, Durkon, Elan and Hinjo if you need to.



In that case it's just comparing their stats, and answer to that is obviously Roy.[/QUOTE]

No, there's also how cunning they are andwhat character flaw the other can exploit. Aswell as their preferred style of combat.

[zimmerwald1915]

That panel is part of Roy's most mentally unstable moment in this comic. And the worst thing he did is drawing his sword and threatening Belkar. I can't see him killing Belkar, unless Belkar do something horrible veyond compare.

But could you see Roy exiling himself to the island of Giggles-worshiping orcs to punish himself for that moment of weakness?

I'm not sorry.

[Fyraltari]

But could you see Roy exiling himself to the island of Giggles-worshiping orcs to punish himself for that moment of weakness?

I'm not sorry.

Well it's a green sword after all.

[Quartz]

It's Roy in a canter. What kills it is that while both have sufficiently low ACs that the other can always hit with their first attacks, Roy has huge adds from Strength and can use Power Attack with a two-handed weapon.

Let's run the numbers:

Both have ACs around 20 so we'll give them both AC 20. Both are combat types so we'll give them both Con 14.

Roy has a BAB of +14/+9/+4. Add +1 for Weapon Focus, +5 for the weapon, +14 for Strength and you end up with +34/+29/+24. Roy does a base of +21 damage (+14 Str, +2 Specialisation, +5 weapon).

Belkar has a BAB of +14/+14/+9/+9/+5/+4, and a +2 or +3 Strength bonus. We'll give him +3. He also has a +5 dagger of Collision and a +4 light dagger. So you end up with +22/+21/+17/+16/+12/+11. Belkar gets a max of +6 favoured Enemy bonus damage. Belkar does d4 +19 damage with his dagger of collision and d3 +13 damage with his other dagger.

Roy hits every time except on a 1 and can trade 6 points of BAB for +12 damage so does 38.5 average on a normal hit (85%) and 77 points on a critical hit (10% chance), for a total DPR of 121 HP / round.

Note that Roy's critical hits force a Massive Damage save.

As a 14th level Ranger / Barb 1, Belkar has an average of 103 HP, so Roy can take him out in a single round.

Only Belkar's first two attacks automatically hit for 36.5 damage (85%) or 73 HP damage (10%), Belkar's second attacks miss on a 2 and a 3 respectively, and Belkar's third and fourth attacks miss on 8- and 9-. Total DPR is 84 HP / round.

Note that Belkar's primary dagger hits do not force a Massive Damage save on a critical.

As a 14th level fighter with Con 14, Roy has an average of 109 HP, so Roy survives into the second round but is severely wounded.

If we give them both Con 18 then Belkar survives into the second round but both die.

Roy could drop 2 points of Power Attack to counter Belkar fighting defensively and Belkar would still die in the first round and it's not worth it for Roy to fight defensively himself.

[martianmister]

I'm not sorry.

I am. snake in the grass

[brian 333]

stuff

How do Roy and Belkar have anywhere near the same AC?

Roy = Plate Mail or Full Plate armor 7 or 8 + 1 Dex bonus if applicable.

Belkar = Chain Shirt 4 + 4 Dex bonus if applicable.

Belkar has never been shown to be dextrous. He has displayed Mobility, which requires 13 Dex. I can't imagine he has an 18 or 20 Dex and never uses a ranged weapon. He never uses Weapon Finesse either, probably because his Str bonus is superior to his Dex bonus.

Magical bonuses should be fairly equal at their levels, so at a minimum Roy's AC is 3 points better than Belkar's. It is more likely four points better. This equates to a 15% to 20% difference in their to hit number. Given the limited number of attacks either will get, this difference might prove inconsequential. But I'd take it.

[Liquor Box]

How do Roy and Belkar have anywhere near the same AC?

Roy = Plate Mail or Full Plate armor 7 or 8 + 1 Dex bonus if applicable.

Belkar = Chain Shirt 4 + 4 Dex bonus if applicable.

Belkar has never been shown to be dextrous. He has displayed Mobility, which requires 13 Dex. I can't imagine he has an 18 or 20 Dex and never uses a ranged weapon. He never uses Weapon Finesse either, probably because his Str bonus is superior to his Dex bonus.

Magical bonuses should be fairly equal at their levels, so at a minimum Roy's AC is 3 points better than Belkar's. It is more likely four points better. This equates to a 15% to 20% difference in their to hit number. Given the limited number of attacks either will get, this difference might prove inconsequential. But I'd take it.

I don't think Roy has plate or full plate armour. See this early strip which made a joke of Durkon having plate armour, but appeared to suggest Roy didn;thave it:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0025.html

[Quartz]

How do Roy and Belkar have anywhere near the same AC?

Roy = Plate Mail or Full Plate armor 7 or 8 + 1 Dex bonus if applicable.

Roy's armour is magical.

Belkar = Chain Shirt 4 + 4 Dex bonus if applicable.

Belkar has a +3 vest.

But if you want to skew the AC in Roy's favour, it just makes him more of a winner. I'll note that I gave Belkar the full +6 Favoured Enemy bonus to humans. His bonuses are more likely to be +4/+4/+2 than +6/+2/+2

Edit: something else to note: if Roy did not have his Belt of Giant Strength, he would be toast. If Belkar had a Belt of Giant Strength, Roy would be toast. So many variables.

[Synesthesy]

Interesting stuff

Are if we add an attack of opportunity made from Mr Scruffy to Roy's face?

[SlashDash]

How do Roy and Belkar have anywhere near the same AC?

Roy = Plate Mail or Full Plate armor 7 or 8 + 1 Dex bonus if applicable.

Belkar = Chain Shirt 4 + 4 Dex bonus if applicable.

Belkar should also get a size bonus to armor, shouldn't he?


Another advantage that Belkar has over Roy is his massive Hide skills.
He is a halfing Ranger after all.

He could try kyting Roy if he wanted to. Halfings are also good with thrown weapons.



Also are we counting their full arsenal of abilities? Because I don't know how much Mr.Scruffy would affect the battle one way or another
We have seen him flat out killing someone on his own

And if we add Bloodfeast to the mix things get even worse for Roy.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I don't think Roy has plate or full plate armour. See this early strip which made a joke of Durkon having plate armour, but appeared to suggest Roy didn;thave it:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0025.html

And when they're considering jumping into the Snarl gate with the ocean he says 'Guy in heavy armor says, "No thanks."', so that means he probably wears banded mail.

Banded mail 250 gp +6 +1 –6 35% 20 ft. 35 lb.

(Probably, because the characters have made a point of not needing levels in a samurai class to be a samurai and such, so heavy armor might not be what the srd says it is.)

[zimmerwald1915]

He could try kyting Roy if he wanted to. Halfings are also good with thrown weapons.

That's not gonna work. Nowadays Roy can heal himself better than Miko could.

[Lacuna Caster]

That's not gonna work. Nowadays Roy can heal himself better than Miko could.

Wait, what? Did he pull out some other sword-power when I wasn't looking?

[zimmerwald1915]

Wait, what? Did he pull out some other sword-power when I wasn't looking?

Yeah. I'm kinda impressed you missed that splash panel, actually.

[Fyraltari]

Wait, what? Did he pull out some other sword-power when I wasn't looking?

He certainly healed himself right there.
Dunno if that's better than what Miko could do, or if he can do it again or what, still.

Ninja'd

[Lacuna Caster]

Yeah. I'm kinda impressed you missed that splash panel, actually.

I saw that panel, I just missed that he was healed in the process. In my defence, I don't generally pay much attention to the recent strip.

[SlashDash]

That's not gonna work. Nowadays Roy can heal himself better than Miko could.

Do we know for a fact how many times can Roy do that?

For all we know, he has X limited uses per day or whatever and Belkar can keep running and taking shots on the run.

Of course Roy is a supreme strategist, so I'm guessing he'll realize what the little rascal is doing.

[Emanick]

He can also throw his sword and get it back immediately, so Belkar is out of luck if he expects to be safe at a distance.

[martianmister]

Belkar's biggest chance to defeat him is to stab him in the back while Roy's not suspecting his betrayal.

[PopeLinus1]

I’m not sure Belkar actually knows how to fight someone without killing them.

[SlashDash]

He can also throw his sword and get it back immediately, so Belkar is out of luck if he expects to be safe at a distance.

I meant if Belkar was hiding while throwing.

I’m not sure Belkar actually knows how to fight someone without killing them.

He clearly fought but didn't kill Miko

[Synesthesy]

I’m not sure Belkar actually knows how to fight someone without killing them.

He defeated but didn't kill Crystal.

Actually, he defeated but didn't kill Jenny, but it's another story

[TRH]

As is, it hardly seems like a contest. Roy has better stats and a better weapon that seems to be able to compensate for most, if not all of the shortcomings a two-handed DPS fighter like himself normally has. Ironically, though, I wonder if Belkar might have been able to win before Roy unlocked his Weapon of Legacy simply by disposing of the sword somehow. Roy's stubborn refusal to carry other weapons has been a major hindrance historically, and if Belkar could then keep the pressure on while Roy frantically attempted to improvise, he'd stand a decent chance of dropping him. No real chance of that now, though.

[Quartz]

He could try kyting Roy if he wanted to. Halfings are also good with thrown weapons.

Not really. His magical daggers do not have the Returning property. Roy has plate pauldrons so he's either wearing half-plate or banded mail.

If Roy has a simple greatsword he loses 30 points of damage from Power Attack and 15 from the +5 bonus, so does an average of 76 HP a round.

OTOH we've seen him hulk out when his sword gets broken...

[SlashDash]

Not really. His magical daggers do not have the Returning property. Roy has plate pauldrons so he's either wearing half-plate or banded mail.

If Roy has a simple greatsword he loses 30 points of damage from Power Attack and 15 from the +5 bonus, so does an average of 76 HP a round.

OTOH we've seen him hulk out when his sword gets broken...

I guess we need to define what we're allowing in terms of the battle ground.

Belkar took out Miko via and shots from hiding which included setting her on fire. I'm assuming it wasn't really his stuff he was using but rather whatever he could have found in the meantime in the area.

So it depends where said hypothetical battle should occur.





Also, I'll repeat again that people ignore that Belkar has companions that are of great significance to his fighting capabilities.
Roy's companions from the bag of tricks aren't.

While Roy managed to chop off a dino's head easily, I doubt he'll do that to Bloodfeast.

[Lacuna Caster]

URL="http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0270.html"]Belkar took out Miko via and shots from hiding[/URL] which included setting her on fire. I'm assuming it wasn't really his stuff he was using but rather whatever he could have found in the meantime in the area.

This is the same non-magical fire that supposedly does 1d6 damage per round?

[Emanick]

Yeah, if you factor in Bloodfeast then everything changes. Roy probably loses.

Then again, allosauruses are CR 7, so maybe Roy could beat it, too.

Edit: Come to think of it, Belkar has no way of transforming Bloodfeast back into a full-sized dinosaur, so Roy is actually probably fine.

[zimmerwald1915]

Yeah, if you factor in Bloodfeast then everything changes. Roy probably loses.

Then again, allosauruses are CR 7, so maybe Roy could beat it, too.

Roy has nothing whatsoever to fear from Bloodfeast, even if it were transformed back into an allosaurus.

[SlashDash]

Roy has nothing whatsoever to fear from Bloodfeast, even if it were transformed back into an allosaurus.

It's teeth seems to have went through the damage reduction of the Exarch and if Roy is attacking it, it doesn't attack Belkar.


Also, can't we have a repeated joke here? I recall Miko's horse taking out Belkar due to size modifier for grappling.
Bloodfeast is huge, isn't it?




The main issue here is that Bloodfeast (and Mr.Scruffy) both require boosts to be of any significance which they got from various items and potions, which Belkar doesn't have.

Are we allowing him to purchase hypotheical potions?

[Emanick]

Roy has nothing whatsoever to fear from Bloodfeast, even if it were transformed back into an allosaurus.

This comic suggests otherwise.