What's Redcloak's 2nd Level-9-Spell

[Ancalagon]

Assuming Redcloak is just level 17 to be able to cast 9th level spells and assuming he does not has enough Wisdom to get bonus spells there, and assuming "Implosion" is his Domain Spell slot, what of the core spells would fill his one normal level 9 spell*?
The question is: If you have "the most powerful tool available" (Level 9 spells), which would fit Redcloak's character the most?

I think someone as Redcloak would go for Etherealness, as it allows him to run to safety if all is lost. He does not strike me as someone who'd use Engery Drain or Soul Bind, those are more Xykon's stick (this does not mean Redcloak would not/never use them if they offer the way to go about things).
My second choice would be a second Implosion, being able to insta-kill 8 creatures in 8 rounds seems to be a very powerful option.

* If Miracle exists in the OotS-verse has still to proven.

[Cranica]

We know Wish exists in OOTS-land, so why wouldn't Miracle? I'd expect that to be Redcloak's choice, given his relationship with the Dark One.

[Kish]

Since when is Miracle an optional spell?

I mean, obviously the DM can change anything. But why would "If Miracle exists" be something to question in the absence of evidence, any more than, say, "If Magic Missile exists"?

[Cranica]

We know Wish exists in OOTS-land, so why wouldn't Miracle? I'd expect that to be Redcloak's choice, given his relationship with the Dark One.

[Morthis]

We know Wish exists in OOTS-land, so why wouldn't Miracle? I'd expect that to be Redcloak's choice, given his relationship with the Dark One.

Where have we seen wish? I can't recall seeing it but maybe I missed it.

[zimmerwald1915]

Where have we seen wish? I can't recall seeing it but maybe I missed it.

The IFCC mentions it when they're telling V about the limits of the Soul Splice.

[Gift Jeraff]

Where have we seen wish? I can't recall seeing it but maybe I missed it.

Wish and Limited Wish were mentioned here.

[The Pilgrim]

I guess his second 9th-Level spell is Summon Monster IX, given the fact that he summoned Barded Devils.

[AngryDaikon]

Looks to me like he cast two implosions. Once on the elven leader and the second on the red haired archer elf.

[Slamexo]

Looks to me like he cast two implosions. Once on the elven leader and the second on the red haired archer elf.

One cast of implosion can splurtch another target for up to four rounds, so it was probably only one slots worth there.

[Valyrian]

From what I know about the spell (no D&D regular), Miracle allows for too many plot-altering powers that I could imagine the Giant would let Redcloak have it. Maybe that means it doesn't exist at all, or he'll find another reason for Redcloak not to have it, similar to V's teleport.

[Morthis]

Wish and Limited Wish were mentioned here.

The IFCC mentions it when they're telling V about the limits of the Soul Splice.

Thanks, forgot about that. Their wording definitely suggests V did have access to wish, just with additional limitations.

[Delusion]

Gate perhaps? What with all the devils he has summoned.

[Morthis]

From what I know about the spell (no D&D regular), Miracle allows for too many plot-altering powers that I could imagine the Giant would let Redcloak have it. Maybe that means it doesn't exist at all, or he'll find another reason for Redcloak not to have it, similar to V's teleport.

Well, an ordinary miracle isn't anything too special and wouldn't be too bad. Meanwhile a powerful miracle (the ones that cost exp) wouldn't allow him to just insta finish the plot or anything of that nature. It has to be something TDO can grant him, and since TDO specifically needs Redcloak to do his bidding because he can't do it himself, it's pretty easy to restrict Redcloak's options with miracles.

[Psyren]

I honestly don't think it matters - being a cleric, he knows his entire list, so we'd only be discussing what he prepared that particular day as opposed to what he knows. And he could crush a rag-tag band like that even without 9ths.

Though I do have a question - given his newfound powers, can't he raise Right-Eye now?

[Icedaemon]

From what I know about the spell (no D&D regular), Miracle allows for too many plot-altering powers that I could imagine the Giant would let Redcloak have it. Maybe that means it doesn't exist at all, or he'll find another reason for Redcloak not to have it, similar to V's teleport.

That seems to be too much of a 'the plot demands this' situation for the Giant to go for. There is no reason for him not to go with Miracle.

Psyren's point is a valid one though. In such a situation, casting Miracle every day will annoy any god, even if it is done by the chosen high priest. There can be a new Redcloak if the god so chooses - Jirix is a high level cleric, after all.

[Psyren]

Remember that Miracle isn't a spell so much as it is a request. Just because Redcloak asks for something (outside of the listed uses) doesn't mean he'll get it. Wish has a similar clause as well ("partial fulfillment.") So I doubt we'll have either of them "solving the plot" even if they aren't banned.

Miracle is especially egregious since the gods have a gag-order concerning the Snarl. With everything Redcloak does being related to the Snarl in some way, any direct assistance he could get from the Dark One is limited.

[TheRiov]

Looks to me like he cast two implosions. Once on the elven leader and the second on the red haired archer elf.

Implosion lasts 4 rounds allowing the caster to kill one target per round.

[Ancalagon]

Don't hang yourself on the miracle-thing, I did not exclude it. If you want, say miracle. Given the strong (and to it limited) reactions I assume those of you how complained without mentioning another spell have picked "Miracle" as his second option?

I'd just be careful as it might come over too much as Deus Ex Machina in this environment that is focussed more on a plot than a strict setting that sticks to the rules.

But if you want to say Miracle, really feel free to say Miracle.

[Kish]

We don't have enough information for me to want to speculate about Redcloak's second prepared ninth-level spell. It could be any ninth-level cleric spell without the "Good" or "Chaotic" descriptor. I'm not choosing Miracle; I'm wondering why your footnote is there. If you'd rather not discuss it, just don't reply to this and I probably won't post in this thread again.

[zimmerwald1915]

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Though I do have a question - given his newfound powers, can't he raise Right-Eye now?

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True Resurrection still works like Raise Dead unless the spell description mentions otherwise. Its spell description does not mention that it can return unwilling creatures, and one of the reasons Redcloak didn't try to Raise Right-Eye, besides Xykon telling him not to, was that Right-Eye wouldn't be willing to answer his call.

[Kish]

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Redcloak could have resurrected his brother right after killing him. Xykon pointed out that then he would have to look into eyes that knew he had been willing to kill his brother for Xykon, that he was Xykon's slave, and that he didn't have the balls to do that.

None of that has changed.

[Ancalagon]

We don't have enough information for me to want to speculate about [...]

Since when has that kept anyone around here from speculating?

It could be any ninth-level cleric spell without the "Good" or "Chaotic" descriptor. I'm not choosing Miracle; I'm wondering why your footnote is there. If you'd rather not discuss it, just don't reply to this and I probably won't post in this thread again.

I just put it there because I myself would be very careful to assume this spell exists and is always availble. Yes, it is core, but it also poses a big problem with how the story unfurls.
Rich can easily handwave anything away that is hin his way of the story. "Why is character X not doing Y to solve Z in a much better way" is easy to dismiss "because it needs to be this way for the story".
But Miracle is such an obvious choice to use in a very tight situation to just "move everything closer to where you like it" that it is a very critical thing in the hands of the evil people and I'd be easier to just make an exception here.

Miracle does not serve any real purpose to advance the story but CAN be a very problematic thing, so if it did not exist (or was available), it would not surprise me.
No matter what happens, I fear Rich nmight have to drop a word either in the comic or in the forum to "deal" in some way with the miracle-problem (Xykon is not such an issue as he has fixed spells). This also could be circumvented by simply having the spell not "available" at all times for all purposes.

I just wanted to express that with the footnote and what it contained (Miracle) was not on the list of assumptions at the beginning of the comic.

[Fitzclowningham]

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Not to mention that Right-Eye was getting on in years at the end of SOD. It's like 30 years later at this point, so he'd be beyond his natural lifespan, and impossible to raise.

[Zevox]

I honestly don't think it matters - being a cleric, he knows his entire list, so we'd only be discussing what he prepared that particular day as opposed to what he knows.

Agreed. Due to how Clerics work, it really doesn't matter what other 9th-level spell he prepared that day. He can prepare any of them, and can change which one he prepares daily, so it's not an important piece of information.

Though I do have a question - given his newfound powers, can't he <spoiler snipped> now?

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Xykon wouldn't even let him bury Right-Eye back when he killed him. Do you really think he'd let him raise him now? Also, do you actually think Right-Eye would want to come back, especially while Redcloak is still working with Xykon? Or that Redcloak would think it a good idea to try bringing him back given how they parted?

Also, he could've raised Right-Eye back when he first killed him. He had 7th-level spells at the time (he mentions that Right-Eye had asked him not to use regenerate to regrow his eye back when he first got access to that level), and Resurrection or Raise Dead (a 5th-level spell) would both have worked shortly after Right-Eye's death. Actually, Resurrection would've worked at any time, as long as he still has some small portion of his body, because its time limit is 10 years per caster level after the target's death, so he could've raised Right-Eye at any time if he wanted to and Xykon wouldn't forbid it. Which means either he doesn't want to, Xykon wouldn't allow it, or both.

Zevox

[Fish]

Smart money is that he has already cast it: Monster Summoning IX can summon extraplanar beings such as demons.

[Ancalagon]

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Not to mention that Right-Eye was getting on in years at the end of SOD. It's like 30 years later at this point, so he'd be beyond his natural lifespan, and impossible to raise.

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I think you natural lifespan only increases while you are alive. Are the rules explicit here? Can you live 40 years, be dead for a 100, get raised and live out your remaining 30something years?

[KillianHawkeye]

Old age only stops coming back from the dead if you DIED from it. Literal time spent since birth has no meaning in this context. If the person died too early, then they still have time left.

As for spells, I'm betting he used Gate since horned devils are too strong to be summoned.

[Ancalagon]

I'd agree, but the last devil seems to pop in by being summoned. He could teleport, though but we do see Redcloak having some spell active in the following, so I assume that is the reminder of his summon-spell (as he's not seen casting something else).
Thus, I assume all the horned devils (if they are horned devils) are summoned (who again summoned the bearded devils).

For summons, they'd last too long, though. That might indicate a Gate-spell or Rich being not strict on the duration of summonings.

[Fish]

As for spells, I'm betting he used Gate

It's uncertain how Cloister might affect Gate. We know Monster Summoning would work.