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2013-03-01, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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2013-03-01, 10:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
>>The only strong option I can come up with is to take a lesson from the scene with Thanh in Book IV and engineer a situation in which obeying Malack's commands requires Belkar to harm Mr. Scruffy, and hope that's sufficiently contrary to Belkar's nature that it throws off the spell (and makes him really mad at Malack). <<
Trip Belkar, put Mr. Scruffy over his eyes, and dismiss Hold Person.
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2013-03-01, 10:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2006
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Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
At the risk of appearing needlessly pedantic, I was referring to the specific case of an exact backwards name, even when it's one that has no feasible pronunciation like "Kcalam" - the anagrams are an old one but not specifically vampire-related, more of a common device in mysteries to shroud the identity of a villain while dangling it in front of the reader's nose. The vampire association is so strong mostly because of the paucity of literature - Carmilla does after all represent half of all the significant vampire-based novels written prior to the twentieth century.
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2013-03-01, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
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Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
: But you can't make an omelette without ruthlessly crushing dozens of eggs beneath your steel boot and then publicly disemboweling the chickens that laid them as a warning to others.
avatar made by Haruki-kun
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2013-03-01, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2013-03-01, 10:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Lake Wobegon
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Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
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2013-03-01, 11:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- In a building.
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Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
Hybridization in the D&D verse could work like plants hybridization does. Plants we quite happily double up on chromosomes (go from two sets to four or more) for a few generations until the extra matching chromosomes are eliminated. This creates a healthy population of fertile hybrids, which can then go on to hybridize again.
This only works if the hybrid isn't left with an odd number of chromosome sets, (Parent a with 2 sets and parent b with 4 sets would create offspring with three sets of chromosomes) because that stops the hybrid from forming gametes. Seedless watermelons, for instance.
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2013-03-01, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
Re: Lizard Men as Cannibals - I'm pretty sure that they *do* eat other Lizard Men from time to time, so the initial description is accurate.
On the other hand, Malack is looking more and more like something less lizardy and more snakey.Last edited by allenw; 2013-03-01 at 11:29 AM.
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2013-03-01, 11:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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- Birmingham, AL
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2013-03-01, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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- Around
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2013-03-01, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- In a building.
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Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
You know I missed those posts because I was distracted by the cannibalism discussion.
I'm going to add my "nnnnoooooooooooo....." and not get mad about the comparing of a sexual orientation to having a contagious supernatural disease, mkay?
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2013-03-01, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
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2013-03-01, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- In a building.
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Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
hehehehe
I'm wondering because, you know, where is the line between cannibalism and eating other sentients?
And I want to know how V didn't kill everyone with Famliacide*, given how many hybrids exist in the OoTS universe. Was it ever confirmed how far it traveled back up the family line?[/nopenotrestartingthatdebate]
*too lazy to look up the spelling.
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2013-03-01, 12:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
BoVD approach is that if it's eating other sentients "for pleasure and power" it's the Evil form of cannibalism.
Familicide
SpoilerStep 1: Kill everyone with the original target's blood.
This is a simple yes/no effect: Is a creature (the secondary target) related by blood to the original target at all, in any way? If yes, kill it. If no, move on. Number of generations or percentage of blood or direction doesn't matter.
Step 2: Kill everyone who shares blood with any of the people killed in Step 1.
Think of it as killing everyone descended from (or siblings to) any and all still-living ancestors of each secondary target. So if Penelope had a grandfather on one side and a great-grandmother on the other side who were still alive, every person who could trace their blood back to either of those people would be dead, because Penelope's daughter carries both of their bloods. If a person can only trace their blood through (say) Penelope's already-dead great-great-great-grandfather, then they're safe. Thus cousins and second-cousins and the like are all dead, but more distant genetic relations are not. It is possible for some cousins to survive if all older generations were already dead, yes, but Vaarsuvius wasn't really likely to take the time to make that distinction while sobbing on a dungeon hallway floor.
Now for some anticipated FAQs:
That's not exactly what Vaarsvuius said when the spell was cast, though.
First, Vaarsvuius is prone to poetic word choice and had no particular reason to include various exceptions or inclusions while in the middle of punishing the dragon. Second, as the author, I also had an interest in not necessarily giving away the twist that the Draketooths would be killed two years ahead of time (leading me to choose words that maybe implied one thing while allowing for another). In other words, don't try to parse the language too precisely.
Wouldn't that spell kill everyone of the original target's species?
In our world? Maybe. The OOTS world is not ours, though. It was created fully populated, even with black dragons. So there could be 100 original black dragons who (as V noted) breed slowly over the relatively-short span of time the current world has been in existence, leading to one-quarter of them being wiped out. If it had been cast on a human first, it may well have taken half or more of the population with it, depending on how many Original Humans there had been and how much interbreeding had occurred. Good thing that's not what happened, right?
But if it worked like that, it would have [insert obscure effect proven with math]!
Yeah, well, it didn't. Why? I don't know. But it didn't. I guess that makes me a crappy writer because I didn't think of whatever implication you just thought of, but there it is. I'm not a biologist or a mathematician. If it makes you feel better, just assume that all the laws of heredity and genetics work differently because It's Magic™.Last edited by hamishspence; 2013-03-01 at 12:16 PM.
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2013-03-01, 12:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2011
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- In a building.
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Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
Ah, that clears things up.
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2013-03-01, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
so...doing Atkins to prep for Olympic gold is...eevil XD
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2013-03-01, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
Sentient in the D&D sense- which would better be called sapient.
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2013-03-01, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2009
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Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
According to dictionary.com:
sa·pi·ent [sey-pee-uhnt] Show IPA
adjective
having or showing great wisdom or sound judgment.sen·tient [sen-shuhnt] Show IPA
adjective
1.
having the power of perception by the senses; conscious.
2.
characterized by sensation and consciousness.
noun
3.
a person or thing that is sentient.
4.
Archaic. the conscious mind.Cuthalion's art is the prettiest art of all the art. Like my avatar.
Number of times Roland St. Jude has sworn revenge upon me: 2
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2013-03-01, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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2013-03-01, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
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2013-03-01, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Garbsen, Germany
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Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
I had the suspicion for a while that malack actually is a member of
SpoilerStart of Darkness spoilerSpoilerThe lizardfolk tribe that competed with redcloak's tribe for Xykons leadership.
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2013-03-01, 12:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2012
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2013-03-01, 01:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2013-03-01, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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- Arad, Israel
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Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
Dracula was operating under a pseudonym in the Bram Stoker Novel, just a very subtle one. His real name is Vlad III Dracula of House Draculesti, Voivode of Wallachia; he was only pretending to be a minor count as part of whatever scheme he was planning in London that the Harkers, van Helsing and the rest disrupted. Dracula was hiding his true identity in plain sight, counting on his foes not to know the history of his people. (Pun intended. )
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2013-03-01, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
No they were Lizardfolk. The Troglodytes were in "OtooPCs"; Sir Francois was trying to negoitate with them, but Elan offended them with comments about their odor.
SpoilerMalack can not have belonged to the group of Lizardfolk competing for Xykon's help, since not only was that much less than two hundred years ago, they lived in a swamp on the Northern Continent.
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2013-03-01, 01:26 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2004
Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
Ah? My mistake.
I'll stick with the time frame objection then.Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2013-03-01, 01:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
I think in a LGBT (and whatever other bizarre abbreviations they've added onto it) context Malack's situation seems to some extent comparable, although I agree with you that I doubt that Rich intended Malack's vampirism to be a direct metaphor for something else; I think, at most, he might have adopted the structure of certain LGBT experiences to help flesh out an interesting encounter.
"I decide ta help me leader an' come after our teammate, an THIS is wha I find? A vampire?!?" Substitute homosexual or transsexual in this situation.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0871.html
Note certain lines with the possibility of swapping terms: "Frankly, I thought my lack of body heat would have given it away before this point." Swap it to say, that Malack is actually a transman or transwoman.
"Brother Thundershield, I understand that this can be upsetting for the living. That's why I prefer to keep my condition private. But nothing has really changed since our engaging discussions. I am still the same man who offered you guidance and friendship."
"Are ye mad??? Ev'rything's changed! Yer an undead monster tha drinks the blood o' tha innocent!"
Replace with buggers men or dresses as a woman/man.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0874.html
"Surrender, Malack!"
"So you can destroy me?"
"So I can resurrect ye! I'm sure the livin' Malack would--"
Seems awfully similar to trying to fix someone's gender identity / sexual orientation issue, no?
===
I think if you argue that Rich intended Malack to be a homosexual allegory you'd be stretching the evidence, as others have stated, the evidence is not really there. However, I think if you try to read a LGBT subtext into Malack's experience you can have some success and hopefully some pleasure.Last edited by Inst; 2013-03-01 at 01:34 PM.
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2013-03-01, 01:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2013
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2013-03-01, 01:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2013
Re: OOTS #874 - The Discussion Thread
This is going to get locked soon, isn't it?
A game is a fictional construct created for the sake of the players, not the other way around. If you have a question "How do I keep X from happening at my table," and you feel that the out-of-game answer "Talk the the other people at your table" won't help, then the in-game answers "Remove mechanics A, B, and/or C, impose mechanics L, M, and/or N" will not help either.
Tragak's Planar Reconstruction Archive (current active project: Acheron)
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2013-03-01, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2006
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- Arad, Israel
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