My Little Pony XIX: I Emptied Your Thread

[EsperDerek]

My vote: Anything that leads to...

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Nightmare Moon Shoulder Devil Pony. ^^

Oh, my lord.

...

Welp.

A Midnight Nightmare Spoilers:

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I'm going to say, that might be more than enough to propel me to select 'Option C'.

[Deadly]

I was trying to express two separate lines of thought there, and one didn't quite make it through.

The idea was that Twilight is the only pony in the group who didn't grow up in or near ponyville, and also the only one who didn't react to Zecora with fear — fear of evil magic specifically. To me, that suggested a local superstition (the existence of curses as a specific kind of magic) that Twilight doesn't share, so that's what she might have meant with curses not existing.

And now that I typed it all up I think I made things more complicated than necessary. A much simpler explanation is that Twilight was in a state of panic and grasping at straws.

I just think she's generally skeptical, while her friends aren't.

[SiuiS]

Congrats, EsperDerek; you actually got me to panic enough that I'm responding sans quotewall.
Midnight, y u ask continuity during only 12 hours I no here?

Methinks...

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both A and C. I say both, because I sill believe that Nightmare Moon being a separate entity which took over Luna devalues EVERYTHING that is supposed to be good about the pilot. It strips Luna and Nightmare Moon of any actual depth.

Multiple personalities tend not to be real, separate entities. They are slivers of the original. One could say they are mood swings which got out o hand. But Luna also had some hand in Midnight's conception, even if only spiritually¹, so the schism, the depth of the valley between Midnight's active, good qualities and her suppressed negative ones could be part of her inheritance along with her more horse-like features.

So while C has the most potential off the bat for continued story production, I don't see the conflict between A & C at all. Different ways of presenting the same situation; after all, wouldn't the Midnight / Nightmare synthesis give the former some traits of the latter? Hearing a 'different' voice in her head would just be Midnight's way of noting she normally wouldn't have consciously thought that, just as much as it would be having a separate entity in her brain whispering into her pink, spongy wrinkles.

Sort of like a Brock/Venom thing. Sure, they could be separate, but as they often say, "We are Venom!".

-

Also, and most importantly to me,
IF YOU LIKE OPTION B THEN DO IT ANYWAY. We have our own subcontinuity here. There is plenty of room for an original idea which happened to have it's superficial thunder stolen by a marketing gimmick. And as a man who's grip on sanity hinges on infinite potentiality through differing parallels, it's not so hard to understand either; a different world, alternate universe, a thought exercise.

So I, personally, would like you to try your hoof & quill at option B. It doran have to be canon, but I implore you to produce the fruits of this branch, even if only to placate me. If you require payment of some variety, I'm game. But I would hate to see a good thig tossed aside because of "temporal stability", "wrote mysel into a corner", or "Nyx ruined the genre by being highly visible".

Also, that last sentence, I cannot rewrite it without either losing the joke, or sounding like a heel. So take it win a grain of salt. It shouldn't come across as offensive, but one never knows.

Whew. Alright, now to ge back to working on my quote wall. See you in about 2 hours, folks!

EDIT: Dammit!
If the timing on this werent so comedic, I would be rather upset
Good game, Inkwell. Good game~

[Nomar]

I just think she's generally skeptical, while her friends aren't.

Good point. Sometimes too sceptical, as seen in Feeling Pinkie Keen, botched aesop notwithstanding. Probably believes what she reads over what she sees. But that's nothing experience or a good book on the methods of rationality won't fix…

[InkwellPony]

Congrats, EsperDerek; you actually got me to panic enough that I'm responding sans quotewall.
Midnight, y u ask continuity during only 12 hours I no here?

Methinks...

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both A and C. I say both, because I sill believe that Nightmare Moon being a separate entity which took over Luna devalues EVERYTHING that is supposed to be good about the pilot. It strips Luna and Nightmare Moon of any actual depth.

Multiple personalities tend not to be real, separate entities. They are slivers of the original. One could say they are mood swings which got out o hand. But Luna also had some hand in Midnight's conception, even if only spiritually¹, so the schism, the depth of the valley between Midnight's active, good qualities and her suppressed negative ones could be part of her inheritance along with her more horse-like features.

So while C has the most potential off the bat for continued story production, I don't see the conflict between A & C at all. Different ways of presenting the same situation; after all, wouldn't the Midnight / Nightmare synthesis give the former some traits of the latter? Hearing a 'different' voice in her head would just be Midnight's way of noting she normally wouldn't have consciously thought that, just as much as it would be having a separate entity in her brain whispering into her pink, spongy wrinkles.

Sort of like a Brock/Venom thing. Sure, they could be separate, but as they often say, "We are Venom!".

-

Also, and most importantly to me,
IF YOU LIKE OPTION B THEN DO IT ANYWAY. We have our own subcontinuity here. There is plenty of room for an original idea which happened to have it's superficial thunder stolen by a marketing gimmick. And as a man who's grip on sanity hinges on infinite potentiality through differing parallels, it's not so hard to understand either; a different world, alternate universe, a thought exercise.

So I, personally, would like you to try your hoof & quill at option B. It doran have to be canon, but I implore you to produce the fruits of this branch, even if only to placate me. If you require payment of some variety, I'm game. But I would hate to see a good thig tossed aside because of "temporal stability", "wrote mysel into a corner", or "Nyx ruined the genre by being highly visible".

Also, that last sentence, I cannot rewrite it without either losing the joke, or sounding like a heel. So take it win a grain of salt. It shouldn't come across as offensive, but one never knows.

Whew. Alright, now to ge back to working on my quote wall. See you in about 2 hours, folks!

EDIT: Dammit!
If the timing on this werent so comedic, I would be rather upset
Good game, Inkwell. Good game~

-(Grins)- I weeen. ^^

[Kurgan]

Alright, sure, I certainly don't mind having a few extra ears on my ideas! Here's my three options that I'm thinking for the conclusion, I could use the advice on which one seems the best to conclude the story. I'll put it under spoilers, so people who don't want to see, don't click on it:

A Midnight Nightmare Ending Options:

Spoiler

Show

Specifically, it concerns the status of Nightmare's existence. I've come up with three different options:

a) For Midnight to be able to survive, the two must become one, and Nightmare volunteers to essentially be 'absorbed' into Midnight's soul. It's basically a sacrifice by Nightmare, for Midnight to insure her survival, and Nightmare pays it gladly out of her motherly love for Midnight. It could probably be the most poignant ending, but also the saddest. it also has a sense of reattaining the 'status-quo', which could be both good and bad. It also would go to show just how much Nightmare truly loves Midnight. This could be considered the "Nightmare as Midnight's Mother" ending.

b) The two are separated into individual beings, Midnight and Nightmare, with Nightmare essentially becoming Midnight's new sister. If this were a month ago, this actually would likely be the option that I personally would select. It would allow for a new 'toy' to play with, essentially, with the easiest, least strange method of doing so. If you've been paying attention to the fandom at all, however, you know the problem with this ending, especially if I release it past this forum. Derivative. This could be considered the 'Nightmare as Midnight's Sister' ending.

c) The two are not able to be separated, and one does not have to sacrifice themselves for the other to exist. Which means that, essentially, Midnight and Nightmare would co-exist in the same body. This is easily the strangest ending, but on the other hand, the mental interplay between the two have been the strongest aspect of these 'Excerpts', and it could be fun to play with that further down the line. It also emphasizes the point that Nightmare and Midnight really *are* a lot alike, and the fact that they shared all the same experiences. The problem, of course, is that it certainly could be considered weird. Right now, I actually kind of rather like this ending, because I'm weird. This could be considered the 'Nightmare and Midnight Together' ending. (AKA: They become truly 'Midnight Mare')

Of course, if anypony has any different ides on how it should go, please, feel free to suggest it, I'm all ears.

Gonna parrot what most of the others said:

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I like options A and C the most.

-A gives us a nice ending and finality. After this, there can be no more Nightmare Moon. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is up to the reader. On the one hoof, the biggest villain from the series is gone for good, on the other hoof, she was mainly lonely and overprotective (at least as you write her).

-C would be harder to write, but seeing the internal dialogue between the two could be interesting. Also a good way to see Nightmare Moon in a non-villain, non-spotlight role.

-B would probably be seen as derivative, unless you go with Aotrs' suggestion of a non-pony form for her. Like a Nightmare Staff, an intelligent magical item that communicates with Midnight telepathically. If you do this, I'd suggest going non-pony, whether that means a different type of animal or inanimate object is up to you.

Now I'm curious if there are Zebra unicorns and Zebra pegasi.

They are called "Zebracorns" and "Pegras", and they totally exist. They are kind of obscure, you've probably never heard of them.

Ah, but they don't dare. Much like they'll never publish an official map of Equestria so they can add, say, a Russia equivalent for an episode when the fancy strikes them, they don't dare establish real rules for Unicorn magic because then in a later episode, when they need Twilight to do something they said Unicorn magic can't do, they're sunk.

You know, this instantly made me think of the Discworld, and how they would never make a map of it (they eventually did). Would it not be awesome if Equestria was on the Disc though?

On the Streets of Ankh Morpork, deep in the heart of the shades.
Princess Celestia told us to go to Ankh Morpork and speak with the Patrician about all the pollution that it is spreading into Equestria. Could you direct me to him good sir?
Random Mugger 1: Aye, the Patrician can usually be found in dark alleyways. He, um, likes the shade...um, just follow me.
Sure, thank you kind sir! I never knew ponies, er, people in the city were so nice! I should write Princess Celestia now! Spike! Spike? Where did you get to Spike?

[Gadora]

Well, I don't see a reason to distribute the unicorn/pegasus stuff among different species. It's not like there are real life unicorns and pegasi that we're having to build the scheme as an analogy of it.

Though now that I think about it, since ungulates all seem to be able to talk, Africa-equivalent might be the single most diverse place on the planet, just by the number of species present.

Well, if you put it that way, then no, I would not be in favor of zebra unicorns and pegasi. I'd much prefer that African mythologies be the source for what populates the Equestrian Africa.

My vote: Anything that leads to...

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Nightmare Moon Shoulder Devil Pony. ^^

I've avoided reading the alternatives, but I think you've won me over to your side.

Actually, I think the "Earth" also has continents resembling an alicorn's head. Who would that be?

I think the important question is not who that is, but instead what happens to the stuff on that landmass when she's set free.

Wow. There's a wiki for everything. Quite comprehensive one in fact. The sad thing is, I'd love to consume that information, but won't have the time now. Where was it 3 years ago

That site (it's not a wiki, by the way) has been around since 1995, so I think the question is: where were you three years ago?

[Lix Lorn]

What would Elan say about tempting fate?

I'm capable of enjoying Dominic Deegan and the Twilight saga. They would have to hire the author of My Immortal to ruin it THAT much.

Alright, sure, I certainly don't mind having a few extra ears on my ideas! Here's my three options that I'm thinking for the conclusion, I could use the advice on which one seems the best to conclude the story. I'll put it under spoilers, so people who don't want to see, don't click on it:

A Midnight Nightmare Ending Options:

Spoiler

Show

Specifically, it concerns the status of Nightmare's existence. I've come up with three different options:

a) For Midnight to be able to survive, the two must become one, and Nightmare volunteers to essentially be 'absorbed' into Midnight's soul. It's basically a sacrifice by Nightmare, for Midnight to insure her survival, and Nightmare pays it gladly out of her motherly love for Midnight. It could probably be the most poignant ending, but also the saddest. it also has a sense of reattaining the 'status-quo', which could be both good and bad. It also would go to show just how much Nightmare truly loves Midnight. This could be considered the "Nightmare as Midnight's Mother" ending.

b) The two are separated into individual beings, Midnight and Nightmare, with Nightmare essentially becoming Midnight's new sister. If this were a month ago, this actually would likely be the option that I personally would select. It would allow for a new 'toy' to play with, essentially, with the easiest, least strange method of doing so. If you've been paying attention to the fandom at all, however, you know the problem with this ending, especially if I release it past this forum. Derivative. This could be considered the 'Nightmare as Midnight's Sister' ending.

c) The two are not able to be separated, and one does not have to sacrifice themselves for the other to exist. Which means that, essentially, Midnight and Nightmare would co-exist in the same body. This is easily the strangest ending, but on the other hand, the mental interplay between the two have been the strongest aspect of these 'Excerpts', and it could be fun to play with that further down the line. It also emphasizes the point that Nightmare and Midnight really *are* a lot alike, and the fact that they shared all the same experiences. The problem, of course, is that it certainly could be considered weird. Right now, I actually kind of rather like this ending, because I'm weird. This could be considered the 'Nightmare and Midnight Together' ending. (AKA: They become truly 'Midnight Mare')

Of course, if anypony has any different ides on how it should go, please, feel free to suggest it, I'm all ears.

I would also say that B would have been awesome, but C is my fave.

[SiuiS]

I note everyone seems to dislike the only completely Spike-centric episode¹, you heartless lot. This has been noted...

The only reason Owl's Well isn't my least favorite is because, specifically, it shafted Spike. It's the only episode I can recall spending he whole time going "oh, come on!"

Every turn, there were glaring holes wherein Spike could have shone, and instead they gave him the idiot-ball gag and made him the totem pole of Dumb that the other ponies danced around, like monkeys at an obelisk.
"Look, I think Spike is jealous" "No wai! DERP"
"don't worry Spike, he's not going to replace you, he's just going to do everything for me you usually do, except you don't get any time off for it, you just get yelled at, DERP"
"oh, don't use your innate fire to light the way through the dark forest, we'll follow the owl I can barely see flyin through the trees DERP"

I was horribly upset that Spike got saddled with an actual problem, and even though Twilight was in the wrong, the moral came out that Spike juts needs to be less jelly LOL DERP.

Ugh. Poor guy.

Spike/Rarity will happen!

...

Hang on, I'm missing a trick here. If you're gonna be chased my a crazy goddess, you may as well make use of it...

Lix, you're a shipping goddess; can you make Spike/Rarity happen?

You heard it folks! The loveless spacelich is beseeching the Ship-goddess for her support of his OTP!

we've finally cracked him!
I also note that ship-goddess sounds totally different when preceded by spacelich. *shrug*

C'mon, there's absurd and then there's just plain crazy. You might as well ship BraeburnXOwlowlisious; that's about how canon that romance is. You kids and your crack pairings, honestly.

I could make that work.
Braeburn is the new Rainbow Dash.

When I have enough free time, I am so converting a Radical Recon Tank into a Grav-Trike-Spike.*

And then we shall see!

We. Shall. SEE!!!!

If'n yer want summat done, yer have ' do it yerself...

That is grand, because I wasn't sure I could get you to convert them without you first wanting to. Yay~

It was always my belief that dragons could changed their form, what with half dragons being so prevalent in fictions (I know that's not how a D&D half-dragon works).

That being said, for a half dragon to born to a human mother, I'm gonna say that to make things less freaky and more kosher that the father dragon became a human for conception. Maybe even stayed a human for a time, because he was in love.*

Andddd Spike is a dragon: in my world this means one day when he grows up and learns more grown-up dragon magic, it's possible he could transform into a pony. (Not just for sex, I'm just saying a Rarity/Spike romance shouldn't be taken out just because they're not both "pony".)

The world us FULL of magic! Anything can happen~

It is heavily implied by the setting that dragons don't have any more overt magic than pegasi or earth ponies.
That being said, Spike knows Twilight, who could help him. I just hope it's done in a more serious manner than the tics I've seen.

Actually, that shape shifting is exactly how most half dragons are conceived.

If the human parent is lucky.

How often to half-dragons appear in non-D&D fiction anyways? *The closest I can think of is a "dragon-blooded" common theme for spellcasters, which doesn't seem to be the same thing (although I guess it would involve polymorphing dragons sometime back).

About half as much as Carpathian vampires, so about 1/6th of all fantasy fiction over all.

So, I noticed that there is an elemental theme for avatars next week. Does anypony think that we could scrounge together some avatars for the elements of ponythread, or is this just a bad idea?

Hm. Wonder what mine would be? A stone wall, wherein each brick and the mortar (and the grass at the bottom) were made of different colored text? Heh.

Ah, thanks. *Didn't know about that.
Hmm... should I take off my avatar to be properly insignificant for the week? *I wouldn't want anyone to think I'm embodying the element of anything significant enough to embody while embodying an element. *

More seriously, I'm not an artist and am poor as describing details on a character, so I doubt I'm getting a new avatar anytime soon.

... Oh wow. That's actually really clever. We will get you an avatar-sized square of forum background color; then say your avatar was made courtesy of ponythread. No one will know what's going on, unless they are curious enough to highlight the avatar area, to see you went through all that trouble just to not really have an avatar!

You, you're a smart one, Erikun. Real clever, you are.

BraeburnXOwlowlisious is a bad example since it's canon. Braeburn had one scene where he said 3 words to Rainbow Dash, Rainbow Dash is the heroine of Scootaloo, and Owlowsious is a bird. So Braeburn and Owlowsious have a relationship and are an official couple. At least by ponysanity standards.

Wow. I could follow that. I blame... Eh. It's in the sig.

Y'know, I've said it before and I'll say it again: I fail to see the practical difference between a cursed plant and a plant that somehow knows exactly how to magically prank you. *For that matter, as much as she was trying to distinguish her magic from curses, once magic is in the picture, it's a meaningless distinction. *If Twilight had to mix chemicals to make alchemical effects, and that's how her magic worked, fine. *But as long as her magic works by "horn glows, stuff happens," to my mind Twilight was just insisting on her terminology. *

There's no such thing as curses. *Magic has predictable, distinct effects. *

But we just got cursed by a nonsentient entity in personalized ways.*

LALALALALALA NO SUCH THINGS AS CURSES THE BOOKS TOLD ME SO..

Aye, it's pretty dumb. Far as I can tell, almost all magic fits into 3 D&D categories, based on duration;
Concentration, instantaneous, and for the wings, a specific time table.

Being permanently cursed, but having that curse be removable - that is, undone, rather than specifically using a permanent effect to undo a permanent effect (should probably say instantaneous, rather than permanent...) - seems to be beyond her.

She's like an old school alchemist; just enough provable knowledge that she feels confident when she say sometime that's bat-plop insane.

Ah, but they don't dare. *Much like they'll never publish an official map of Equestria so they can add, say, a Russia equivalent for an episode when the fancy strikes them, they don't dare establish real rules for Unicorn magic because then in a later episode, when they need Twilight to do something they said Unicorn magic can't do, they're sunk.

This is funny, because this is exactly how Dominic Deegan operates, but here it's a storytelling advantage, and there it's just one more reason to tear Mookie a new one.
Which is why I am able to give DD a second chance and like it again; just so Lix doesn't try to kill me

It does seem a little poorly thought out, I'll admit. But perhaps it's simply Twilight knowing that Zecora is not a unicorn and thus can't do magic. And because she doesn't know about the Poison Joke, she has no reason to believe that anything Zecora might do could result in anything curse-like. Obviously magic could do those things to the six ponies, but Zecora supposedly can't do magic. Maybe that's her reason for dismissing the "curse" idea.

She does it again in Feeling Pinkie Keen, dismissing the idea that Pinkie's sense could be magic, or similar to magic anyway. Her given reason there is pretty lame, but it would be reasonable if she assumed non-unicorns can't possibly do magic (which might be wrong too)

I jut think Twilight is classically racist. She insists only unicorns have magic, even though Word of Faust has eery pony type being magical, just not 'casting' magical spells.

Twilight is the standard Wizard calling sorcerers a bunch of bunkum con-artists.

Again, she never heard of the story before, so she wouldn't know that. It's a reasonable assumption if we assume magic IS mostly predictable. Indeed I think ponies treat magic almost like a science. Which means predictable cause and effect.

I would say this is a case of wilful ignorance combined with lack of exposure to the wider world of Equestria. You'll be surprised how people cling to their beliefs even in the face of contrary evidence.

Again, ancient Alchemist. "no no, mercury isn't poisonous; he just didn't cleanse his humors first! That's what he hemlock is for, duh~"

She is her aunt, and both of them realize it. But when Midnight was *a lot* younger, she referred to Celestia as her 'Gammy', and it delighted the Princess so much she kept encouraging it.

In an OOC reason, it's sort of a reference as how Celestia acts as Twilight's 'mother' figure, ergo, any child Twilight would have, she would act as her 'Grandmother' figure.

(Blame Inkwell for that. He came up with it.)

And thanks, everypony, for the compliments. I never really expected to extend this, this far when I did the first one, it started as just a small thought in my brain.

I'm trying to figure out the conclusion, but the problem is, I have three options and I'm not sure which one I actually want to select.

Write all three! Or that's what I would have said.

Alright, sure, I certainly don't mind having a few extra ears on my ideas! Here's my three options that I'm thinking for the conclusion, I could use the advice on which one seems the best to conclude the story. I'll put it under spoilers, so people who don't want to see, don't click on it:

A Midnight Nightmare Ending Options:

Spoiler

Show

Specifically, it concerns the status of Nightmare's existence. I've come up with three different options:

a) For Midnight to be able to survive, the two must become one, and Nightmare volunteers to essentially be 'absorbed' into Midnight's soul. It's basically a sacrifice by Nightmare, for Midnight to insure her survival, and Nightmare pays it gladly out of her motherly love for Midnight. It could probably be the most poignant ending, but also the saddest. it also has a sense of reattaining the 'status-quo', which could be both good and bad. It also would go to show just how much Nightmare truly loves Midnight. This could be considered the "Nightmare as Midnight's Mother" ending.

b) The two are separated into individual beings, Midnight and Nightmare, with Nightmare essentially becoming Midnight's new sister. If this were a month ago, this actually would likely be the option that I personally would select. It would allow for a new 'toy' to play with, essentially, with the easiest, least strange method of doing so. If you've been paying attention to the fandom at all, however, you know the problem with this ending, especially if I release it past this forum. Derivative. This could be considered the 'Nightmare as Midnight's Sister' ending.

c) The two are not able to be separated, and one does not have to sacrifice themselves for the other to exist. Which means that, essentially, Midnight and Nightmare would co-exist in the same body. This is easily the strangest ending, but on the other hand, the mental interplay between the two have been the strongest aspect of these 'Excerpts', and it could be fun to play with that further down the line. It also emphasizes the point that Nightmare and Midnight really *are* a lot alike, and the fact that they shared all the same experiences. The problem, of course, is that it certainly could be considered weird. Right now, I actually kind of rather like this ending, because I'm weird. This could be considered the 'Nightmare and Midnight Together' ending. (AKA: They become truly 'Midnight Mare')

Of course, if anypony has any different ides on how it should go, please, feel free to suggest it, I'm all ears.

I have already cast my vote, I'm just too lazy to cut out a bunch of now-unimportant quotes.

Ah but that's Twilight. *I don't think of her as a scientist. *She's a scholar of, among other things, the sciences. *It's very different; she reads about what scientists do, she performs clumsy experiments with no thought to control groups or specific hypotheses. *She just hooked up Pinkie and got data, with no specific ideas of what she was looking for. *She reads it in books and accepts it as gospel; the scientist who studied curses is likely much more open to correction if there turns out to be a real curse. *

This is not to disrespect Twilight. *She's very good at what she does, which is the practical application of magic and general scholarship. *She's very knowledgeable. *If I want to know what the melting point of Boron is, Twilight's the one to talk to. *However, generating ORIGINAL scholarship isn't her strong point (maybe that's why Celestia has given her the friendship mission; it's something that gets her some friends and social experience AND she can't just find all the answers in a book. *She has to reach her own conclusions, not just parrot authorities.)

She just isn't a scientist, much like it's no insult to say that Einstein wasn't a Latin scholar or Bill Gates isn't a philosopher. *Their skills and expertise just lie in different areas.

That's... Very true. Hm.

Geez, everypony.*

A Midnight Nightmare Ending Discussion:

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Way to be...basically evenly split on the two options that I was *seriously* considering.

Option 'B' really is a non-starter because, as previously stated, just exceptionally poor timing. It simply would not work in this environment anymore.

But to be almost evenly split on options 'A' and 'C'!*

...Don't make me make this a multiple choice ending.

Multiple choice! Multiple choice!

OOH! OOH! I KNOW!

We can make it a dating sim while we're at it!

And yes, my black cat is named Percious (Pronounced Persius) due to a mispelling that I liked on her adoption papers. Admittedly, I could have named her 'Hey, you little black b****' for how well she responds to it.

I love cats~

Also, haha, he fell into your evil plot!

I was trying to express two separate lines of thought there, and one didn't quite make it through.

The idea was that Twilight is the only pony in the group who didn't grow up in or near ponyville, and also the only one who didn't react to Zecora with fear — fear of evil magic specifically. To me, that suggested a local superstition (the existence of curses as a specific kind of magic) that Twilight doesn't share, so that's what she might have meant with curses not existing.

And now that I typed it all up I think I made things more complicated than necessary. A much simpler explanation is that Twilight was in a state of panic and grasping at straws.

Hm. So Twilight is the only one whose culture wasn't steeped in recognition of poison joke. If it's grown in the Everfree since Ponyville was founded, then even if no mentioned by name, it would affect the folklore of the pontoons Ponies.
*

I just think she's generally skeptical, while her friends aren't.

Well, yes. That too.

[Beacon of Chaos]

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To be fair Nightmare-as-seperate-from-Luna is not a new concept, even taking Nyx into account. (One other extremely good fic that did it a totally different way is Lingering Darkness, where Nightmare (or Noctis as it called itself) was a sort of malevolent parasite.)

So then, a suggestion: perhaps a Nyx-avoiding compromise would be to have Nightmare be released, but into a non-pony form of some type, if that is what you'd really rather happen in your heart of hearts. Just a thought.

My vote: Anything that leads to...

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Nightmare Moon Shoulder Devil Pony. ^^

Congrats, EsperDerek; you actually got me to panic enough that I'm responding sans quotewall.
Midnight, y u ask continuity during only 12 hours I no here?

Methinks...

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both A and C. I say both, because I sill believe that Nightmare Moon being a separate entity which took over Luna devalues EVERYTHING that is supposed to be good about the pilot. It strips Luna and Nightmare Moon of any actual depth.

Multiple personalities tend not to be real, separate entities. They are slivers of the original. One could say they are mood swings which got out o hand. But Luna also had some hand in Midnight's conception, even if only spiritually¹, so the schism, the depth of the valley between Midnight's active, good qualities and her suppressed negative ones could be part of her inheritance along with her more horse-like features.

So while C has the most potential off the bat for continued story production, I don't see the conflict between A & C at all. Different ways of presenting the same situation; after all, wouldn't the Midnight / Nightmare synthesis give the former some traits of the latter? Hearing a 'different' voice in her head would just be Midnight's way of noting she normally wouldn't have consciously thought that, just as much as it would be having a separate entity in her brain whispering into her pink, spongy wrinkles.

Sort of like a Brock/Venom thing. Sure, they could be separate, but as they often say, "We are Venom!".

-

Also, and most importantly to me,
IF YOU LIKE OPTION B THEN DO IT ANYWAY. We have our own subcontinuity here. There is plenty of room for an original idea which happened to have it's superficial thunder stolen by a marketing gimmick. And as a man who's grip on sanity hinges on infinite potentiality through differing parallels, it's not so hard to understand either; a different world, alternate universe, a thought exercise.

So I, personally, would like you to try your hoof & quill at option B. It doran have to be canon, but I implore you to produce the fruits of this branch, even if only to placate me. If you require payment of some variety, I'm game. But I would hate to see a good thig tossed aside because of "temporal stability", "wrote mysel into a corner", or "Nyx ruined the genre by being highly visible".

Also, that last sentence, I cannot rewrite it without either losing the joke, or sounding like a heel. So take it win a grain of salt. It shouldn't come across as offensive, but one never knows.

Whew. Alright, now to ge back to working on my quote wall. See you in about 2 hours, folks!

EDIT: Dammit!
If the timing on this werent so comedic, I would be rather upset
Good game, Inkwell. Good game~

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Oh wow. These ideas should be combined. Nightmare becomes separate from Midnight as a miniture version of herself that hangs around Midnight (as her pet and/or assistant?) and dispenses bad advice :D

Edit:

Hm. Wonder what mine would be? A stone wall, wherein each brick and the mortar (and the grass at the bottom) were made of different colored text? Heh.

I almost didn't catch that. Well done sir, well done

[Welf]

I think if we tried to explain quantum mechanics to Blaise Pascal, with some examples, he would ultimately accept it. But I doubt he would be very good at furthering the scientific frontier. The new generation's familiarity not only implies acceptance, but also having the new theory studied from youth, knowing it well enough to actually be able to improve it.

I think that depends on the circumstances. if Blaise Pascal traveled trough time to today he would accept it because the world says so; but if someone travelled back and explained the theory and even showed some experiments that validate the theory he wouldn't.

Of course. I think it's going a bit far to imply that most or all of them have that problem, but it is definitely there.

The more fundamental a idea the harder it is to accept. For example the concept of coincidence and random is pretty defining for the modern world and sciences. But a few hundred years ago no one would have believed it because it implies that fate and destiny do not rule the universe. The same goes for the idea that matter is both corporeal and wave.

Ah but that's Twilight. I don't think of her as a scientist. She's a scholar of, among other things, the sciences. It's very different; she reads about what scientists do, she performs clumsy experiments with no thought to control groups or specific hypotheses. She just hooked up Pinkie and got data, with no specific ideas of what she was looking for. She reads it in books and accepts it as gospel; the scientist who studied curses is likely much more open to correction if there turns out to be a real curse.

This is not to disrespect Twilight. She's very good at what she does, which is the practical application of magic and general scholarship. She's very knowledgeable. If I want to know what the melting point of Boron is, Twilight's the one to talk to. However, generating ORIGINAL scholarship isn't her strong point (maybe that's why Celestia has given her the friendship mission; it's something that gets her some friends and social experience AND she can't just find all the answers in a book. She has to reach her own conclusions, not just parrot authorities.)

She just isn't a scientist, much like it's no insult to say that Einstein wasn't a Latin scholar or Bill Gates isn't a philosopher. Their skills and expertise just lie in different areas.

She goes out and try to prove things; that makes her a scientist in my view. Just not a good one. So I concur that she is more of an scholar than an actual (i.e. good) scientist. Also it makes her more likely to stick to something she read and force everything into known categories.

Now I'm curious if there are Zebra unicorns and Zebra pegasi.

Now I'm curious if you're curious because you subconsciously remembered the picture below. I'm pretty sure you have seen it already on dA because we frequent the same groups.

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I think she's trying too hard now, but maybe that IS in line with Twilight's character

I think the statement as it was made by Twilight in the episode is clearly wrong. Probably a mistake on the writers' part, but it makes the problems with the rest of the episode worse.

Anyway, all I'm saying is, Twilight would have had a much better argument if she simply said she didn't believe in Pinkie's sense because Pinkie is not a unicorn and thus can't have magic. And the same for curses, Zecora couldn't do anything curse-like because Zecora is not a unicorn. Any claims of curses done by non-unicorns must be nothing but pony tales. Makes sense.

She might end up being proven wrong and that would be great (non-unicorn magic, what a revolutionary discovery that would be, she'd become instantly famous!), but it would be perfectly reasonable given her knowledge (and ours) at the time.

It#s said before, but maybe it's really just a matter of semantics. In the poison joke flower could be a profane illness. Remember, this is a world where the ponies have to take care that the plants grow, the animals are feed and the clouds are moved. Their idea of magic and profane should be very different than ours.

[RdMarquis]

Gonna parrot what most of the others said:

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I like options A and C the most.

-A gives us a nice ending and finality. After this, there can be no more Nightmare Moon. Whether this is a good thing or a bad thing is up to the reader. On the one hoof, the biggest villain from the series is gone for good, on the other hoof, she was mainly lonely and overprotective (at least as you write her).

-C would be harder to write, but seeing the internal dialogue between the two could be interesting. Also a good way to see Nightmare Moon in a non-villain, non-spotlight role.

-B would probably be seen as derivative, unless you go with Aotrs' suggestion of a non-pony form for her. Like a Nightmare Staff, an intelligent magical item that communicates with Midnight telepathically. If you do this, I'd suggest going non-pony, whether that means a different type of animal or inanimate object is up to you.

Ditto. If I had to choose though, I'd pick C.

[Bayonet Priest]

Oh, my lord.

...

Welp.

A Midnight Nightmare Spoilers:

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I'm going to say, that might be more than enough to propel me to select 'Option C'.

Midnight Nightmare stuff

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Part 7 was very nice just like the previous parts. Now the ending, hmm...

A is sad and status quo and I don't really care for either of those things so I don't care for A that much.

B is better but as you've said Nyx kind of messes up what would have been pretty original. I'd say to avoid this option.
Edit: Looking over what others have said, if Nightmare Moon were seperated but in a non-Pony way this could work out.

C I like the best. It's strange but it's certainly the most interesting of the three. Its kind of funny that I was working on a sort of Jekyll and Hyde bickering like a married couple split personality concept for a warlock that I plan to play in a DnD game in the near future and this comes up. I really like the idea of back and forth between Midnight and Nightmare but I would prefer Midnight to remain the more dominant of the two. Also, Nightmare Moon shoulder devil is the best thing ever.

You should pick the one you like best of course but C is my favorite of the three.

[MCerberus]

I was going to make up Applejack the "Lone Wanderer" because my ARTS has ADD... then I got a Strange Backburner in TF2.

Priorities.

[darthbobcat]

snip

I've never actually seen that picture before, but I have seen others on the same theme.

[EsperDerek]

A Midnight Nightmare Update:

Wow, so many people posting their opinions. This pleases me so much, thank you all.

I've decided on the ending, and now I'm slowly developing the whys and hows of what happens. I feel I have a pretty solid handle on what's going to happen, and that I can make it as solid as possible.

But since it's going to probably be the longest of the excerpts, and I'm still *really* mentally and physically exhausted from having to help put on a wedding yesterday, you shouldn't expect the final Excerpt until tomorrow.

Part of the reason why it's going to be until tomorrow, is because I'd like to go back and brush up the earlier Excerpts, to make it more in line with the tone and the story that was established as I went along here.

So, yeah, it'll be tomorrow, when I'll post a much larger post, with all eight Excerpts, including revisions to some of the earlier ones. Stay tuned for it!

I just have one last question. I use DarkOrchid for Midnight, and Green for Nightmare. But what color should I use when I'm referring to them both at the same time?

[Bayonet Priest]

A Midnight Nightmare Update:

Wooo, looking forward to it.

[Grif]

A Midnight Nightmare Update:

Wow, so many people posting their opinions. This pleases me so much, thank you all.

I've decided on the ending, and now I'm slowly developing the whys and hows of what happens. I feel I have a pretty solid handle on what's going to happen, and that I can make it as solid as possible.

But since it's going to probably be the longest of the excerpts, and I'm still *really* mentally and physically exhausted from having to help put on a wedding yesterday, you shouldn't expect the final Excerpt until tomorrow.

Part of the reason why it's going to be until tomorrow, is because I'd like to go back and brush up the earlier Excerpts, to make it more in line with the tone and the story that was established as I went along here.

So, yeah, it'll be tomorrow, when I'll post a much larger post, with all eight Excerpts, including revisions to some of the earlier ones. Stay tuned for it!

I just have one last question. I use DarkOrchid for Midnight, and Green for Nightmare. But what color should I use when I'm referring to them both at the same time?

This of course.

And NMM Shoulder Devil? Thirded... Fourthed..? Gah! Nth!

[Welf]

I've never actually seen that picture before, but I have seen others on the same theme.

You haven't seen it? It's featured in #MLPFriendshipIsMagic, I thought that was your primary source.

huh, time for an image dump, Pinkie Pie edition.

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I don't know why, but I love Pinkie's face in this one.

[Thanqol]

If economists were capable of emotions I might be offended.
But to quote Max planck: “A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it”. You should note that he was a physicist.

This is the best quote. If I had sig space anywhere I'd be using it.

Alright, sure, I certainly don't mind having a few extra ears on my ideas! Here's my three options that I'm thinking for the conclusion, I could use the advice on which one seems the best to conclude the story. I'll put it under spoilers, so people who don't want to see, don't click on it:

A Midnight Nightmare Ending Options:

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Specifically, it concerns the status of Nightmare's existence. I've come up with three different options:

a) For Midnight to be able to survive, the two must become one, and Nightmare volunteers to essentially be 'absorbed' into Midnight's soul. It's basically a sacrifice by Nightmare, for Midnight to insure her survival, and Nightmare pays it gladly out of her motherly love for Midnight. It could probably be the most poignant ending, but also the saddest. it also has a sense of reattaining the 'status-quo', which could be both good and bad. It also would go to show just how much Nightmare truly loves Midnight. This could be considered the "Nightmare as Midnight's Mother" ending.

b) The two are separated into individual beings, Midnight and Nightmare, with Nightmare essentially becoming Midnight's new sister. If this were a month ago, this actually would likely be the option that I personally would select. It would allow for a new 'toy' to play with, essentially, with the easiest, least strange method of doing so. If you've been paying attention to the fandom at all, however, you know the problem with this ending, especially if I release it past this forum. Derivative. This could be considered the 'Nightmare as Midnight's Sister' ending.

c) The two are not able to be separated, and one does not have to sacrifice themselves for the other to exist. Which means that, essentially, Midnight and Nightmare would co-exist in the same body. This is easily the strangest ending, but on the other hand, the mental interplay between the two have been the strongest aspect of these 'Excerpts', and it could be fun to play with that further down the line. It also emphasizes the point that Nightmare and Midnight really *are* a lot alike, and the fact that they shared all the same experiences. The problem, of course, is that it certainly could be considered weird. Right now, I actually kind of rather like this ending, because I'm weird. This could be considered the 'Nightmare and Midnight Together' ending. (AKA: They become truly 'Midnight Mare')

Of course, if anypony has any different ides on how it should go, please, feel free to suggest it, I'm all ears.

My vote is -

My vote: Anything that leads to...

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Nightmare Moon Shoulder Devil Pony. ^^

- Well said.

HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG

Oh, my lord.

...

Welp.

A Midnight Nightmare Spoilers:

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I'm going to say, that might be more than enough to propel me to select 'Option C'.

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I do like A, especially in the way that I immediately visualised the ending. But I think that C gives legitimate long term character growth for two characters and spins up so many by-products and additional complexities it's just worth it. It's an endless source of narrative fuel.

I'm also imagining Midnight with one green Nightmare Moon eye and one regular eye, and when she's talking to herself the eyes cross.

[SiuiS]

A Midnight Nightmare Update:

Wow, so many people posting their opinions. This pleases me so much, thank you all.

I've decided on the ending, and now I'm slowly developing the whys and hows of what happens. I feel I have a pretty solid handle on what's going to happen, and that I can make it as solid as possible.

But since it's going to probably be the longest of the excerpts, and I'm still *really* mentally and physically exhausted from having to help put on a wedding yesterday, you shouldn't expect the final Excerpt until tomorrow.

Part of the reason why it's going to be until tomorrow, is because I'd like to go back and brush up the earlier Excerpts, to make it more in line with the tone and the story that was established as I went along here.

So, yeah, it'll be tomorrow, when I'll post a much larger post, with all eight Excerpts, including revisions to some of the earlier ones. Stay tuned for it!

I just have one last question. I use DarkOrchid for Midnight, and Green for Nightmare. But what color should I use when I'm referring to them both at the same time?

Hope ya recover well, mate. And my offer of bribery still stands.

Switching back and forth in the same sentence has worked well.
Alternately, for single lines, do the line twice, in smaller font win one on top, one on bottom. The mind should scan the two together.

We are Midnight Mare!
We are Midnight Mare!

In other news, I enjoy the accidental connection you made between me as a mare, and Nightmare Moon.

-(Grins)- I weeen. ^^

Reaction image forthcoming

[EsperDerek]

This of course.

And NMM Shoulder Devil? Thirded... Fourthed..? Gah! Nth!

Navy is a pretty decent color, I might go for that.

And also, congratulations, Inkwell, I think everypony loves the idea of a NMM Shoulder Devil.

My vote is -

- Well said.

HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG

See?

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I do like A, especially in the way that I immediately visualised the ending. But I think that C gives legitimate long term character growth for two characters and spins up so many by-products and additional complexities it's just worth it. It's an endless source of narrative fuel.

I'm also imagining Midnight with one green Nightmare Moon eye and one regular eye, and when she's talking to herself the eyes cross.

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I actually like that heterochroma idea, so I think I might yank it. And, yes, part of the reason why I'm slanting towards 'C' in my ending is because there's so much that can be done with the idea further. It'd be a shame to waste that, I think.

Hope ya recover well, mate. And my offer of bribery still stands.

Switching back and forth in the same sentence has worked well.
Alternately, for single lines, do the line twice, in smaller font win one on top, one on bottom. The mind should scan the two together.

We are Midnight Mare!
We are Midnight Mare!

In other news, I enjoy the accidental connection you made between me as a mare, and Nightmare Moon.

I'm recovering, I'm just honestly exhausted, but it's a good type of exhaustion.

I might take you up on the bribery. In fact, I might end up writing out the two endings that I have not selected as sort of a 'DVD Extra' alternative endings, simply because I feel like all three endings could be strong.

And god, the trouble I had picking a green that was not already taken, and was actually freaking readable. Y'all already took the great greens, so ponies kept thinking it was either Lyra or you who was speaking with Midnight at the start there.

[PhoeKun]

Ok! So. Everypony in my hotel room is asleep because they are wussies. GenCon's all over and stuff, because things end. It's part of that 'time' thing I've heard so much about. What this means is that I'm not home, but I've got time to post. Hooray!

And... I... you... y-y-y-y-y-y-you... f-filled... a thread. An entire thread while I was away. It was only for a couple of days! 50 pages! You know when I said I wasn't going to bother catching up? This is why! Cheese on toast, guys. What exactly were you all up to, anyway?

[Grif]

Ok! So. Everypony in my hotel room is asleep because they are wussies. GenCon's all over and stuff, because things end. It's part of that 'time' thing I've heard so much about. What this means is that I'm not home, but I've got time to post. Hooray!

And... I... you... y-y-y-y-y-y-you... f-filled... a thread. An entire thread while I was away. It was only for a couple of days! 50 pages! You know when I said I wasn't going to bother catching up? This is why! Cheese on toast, guys. What exactly were you all up to, anyway?

EsperDerek written a whole new fic based on the RP we did in... hm Thread 17?
Midnight Mare is now canon!

Also, lots of pony. Yeah.

[SiuiS]

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I actually like that heterochroma idea, so I think I might yank it. And, yes, part of the reason why I'm slanting towards 'C' in my ending is because there's so much that can be done with the idea further. It'd be a shame to waste that, I think.

while it is a good idea, I feel I should step up and point out that heterochromia is one of the top three signs of a Mary sue character.
Of course, NMM really only comes to the fore when she's under duress, so the One Green Eye could work like the dad blowing a blood vessel in Daria. She gets angry, fumes, then POOF! green left eyeball.

I'm recovering, I'm just honestly exhausted, but it's a good type of exhaustion.

Being exhausted after a stressful period is the best exhaustion.
It's those "I'm beat and I'm not even halfway there yet" that kills me. Like moving! Nothing is worse than finally being done moving, collapsing for a heap meal and a nap, and realizing now you have to unpack every darn thing XD

I might take you up on the bribery. In fact, I might end up writing out the two endings that I have not selected as sort of a 'DVD Extra' alternative endings, simply because I feel like all three endings could be strong.

And god, the trouble I had picking a green that was not already taken, and was actually freaking readable. Y'all already took the great greens, so ponies kept thinking it was either Lyra or you who was speaking with Midnight at the start there.

WOOHOO! Go-Go-Gadget marketable Skill!
And sorry about that. Even worse? If I weren't assaulted by my brothers to pick a different color, to fit the scheme and to free up the younger's girlfriend's favorite color.

It would have been a purple
I have a connection to the entire family, almost; only Trixie escapes my schema. Except we dress alike. Har.

Inkwell; ponibooru doesn't love me so your reaction pic will have to wait. If I draw it myself, it comes after Filly Snowflake and some wool, in Spinning a Yarn (in theaters this summer!)

[EsperDerek]

Ok! So. Everypony in my hotel room is asleep because they are wussies. GenCon's all over and stuff, because things end. It's part of that 'time' thing I've heard so much about. What this means is that I'm not home, but I've got time to post. Hooray!

And... I... you... y-y-y-y-y-y-you... f-filled... a thread. An entire thread while I was away. It was only for a couple of days! 50 pages! You know when I said I wasn't going to bother catching up? This is why! Cheese on toast, guys. What exactly were you all up to, anyway?

Well, remember, we did have that 'one day try to post as much as possible', and while we didn't clear our goal, we posted an *awful* lot.

But, mostly, yes, we posted ponysanity. So, so much ponysanity.

[SiuiS]

Ok! So. Everypony in my hotel room is asleep because they are wussies. GenCon's all over and stuff, because things end. It's part of that 'time' thing I've heard so much about. What this means is that I'm not home, but I've got time to post. Hooray!

And... I... you... y-y-y-y-y-y-you... f-filled... a thread. An entire thread while I was away. It was only for a couple of days! 50 pages! You know when I said I wasn't going to bother catching up? This is why! Cheese on toast, guys. What exactly were you all up to, anyway?

It's a Phoe! High, Phoe! (get it? "high fee"? No? Psh. Fine, I'll try context next time...)

Believe it or not, from 25-45 of last thread was the most on-topic we have been since... Around thread 5. There are a couple neat highlights.

Scootaloo and why she can't fly.
Military application of Pegasus pony magic.
Starship technologies.

Um... There's more, but I can't remember any of it. Oh! And Inkwell did a Filly Phoe wi' yarn.

[EsperDerek]

while it is a good idea, I feel I should step up and point out that heterochromia is one of the top three signs of a Mary sue character.
Of course, NMM really only comes to the fore when she's under duress, so the One Green Eye could work like the dad blowing a blood vessel in Daria. She gets angry, fumes, then POOF! green left eyeball.

See, I never associate heterochromia as a Mary Sue trait, mostly because of one of my other fandoms. I always associate it with this:

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[TheAmishPirate]

Ok! So. Everypony in my hotel room is asleep because they are wussies. GenCon's all over and stuff, because things end. It's part of that 'time' thing I've heard so much about. What this means is that I'm not home, but I've got time to post. Hooray!

And... I... you... y-y-y-y-y-y-you... f-filled... a thread. An entire thread while I was away. It was only for a couple of days! 50 pages! You know when I said I wasn't going to bother catching up? This is why! Cheese on toast, guys. What exactly were you all up to, anyway?

Inkwell posted this. I think you'll like it:

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Midnight Mare

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I honestly like SiuiS's solution the best, as it also solves some of my previous concerns. The spell can save Midnight, but it reduces Nightmare to a head-voice, or only has partial control, or whatever. Do what you want with the dual-eye color thing; other people may assume the wrong things, but that's their problem, not yours.

Any other points I could give have already been said. Get some sleep, and I look forward to your final excerpt!

I know you've already decided, but I just wanted to throw my last two cents in. The Amishman approves of your decision.

[Kindablue]

Ok! So. Everypony in my hotel room is asleep because they are wussies. GenCon's all over and stuff, because things end. It's part of that 'time' thing I've heard so much about. What this means is that I'm not home, but I've got time to post. Hooray!

And... I... you... y-y-y-y-y-y-you... f-filled... a thread. An entire thread while I was away. It was only for a couple of days! 50 pages! You know when I said I wasn't going to bother catching up? This is why! Cheese on toast, guys. What exactly were you all up to, anyway?

Have you heard this?

The more fundamental a idea the harder it is to accept. For example the concept of coincidence and random is pretty defining for the modern world and sciences. But a few hundred years ago no one would have believed it because it implies that fate and destiny do not rule the universe. The same goes for the idea that matter is both corporeal and wave.

Science is based on consensus opinion, not individual opinion. As you age your brain loses plasticity--the ability to learn and understand new things; it's not a trait of scientists but of rabbits and dogs and humans too. It also doesn't really matter because new blood is constantly being added to replace the old. It all evens out.