General WoD Discussion #2: Its time to Celebrate!

[123456789blaaa]

Constantly.
Every book.
Both giggles and groaners.....
did one really get to you?

Yeah. I was reading the WOD: Inferno book in the section where it talks about how demons are rebellious creatures. At the end of the section, after it says

Sin is rebellion against righteousness, Vice an insurrection against virtue. Demons are the embodiment of that rebellion, whether you see them as fallen angels rebelling against a broken God or a vicious nest of devils rebelling against the preeminence of mankind

it suddenly goes (jealous, much, little demons?).

I mean as you can see, the author was normally informing you about the subject when out of nowhere he suddenly seems to start talking to himself. And it's in italics so it contrasts even more jarringly with the mostly calm tone of the previous text.

It's such a small thing but I found it hysterical when I first read it. There's other funny stuff in the book as well (...what cruel revelation?) but this one stuck out.

Very much so. I'm immediately reminded of the passage in the Requiem core book where it talks about extreme environments:

I presume you added the comments?

The best V:tR chronicle.

Sick of having to interact with Kindred Society, the coterie sets out to create a moon base.

[Sith_Happens]

I've generally assumed most Prometheans DO attempt to create progeny more than once, as given that Prometheans have finite lifespans under normal circumstances, otherwise all the lineages are at below population replacement levels. It doesn't seem like it would make any sense that the older lineages could still exist.

Wait, so you're saying that most Prometheans, as part of their long, arduous quest to rid themselves of a cursed existence, deliberately bring more of their kind into the world to live out that same cursed existence?

...Then again, this is the World of Darkness.

[The Glyphstone]

I presume you added the comments?

[/I]

No, I didn't. It's a direct quote from the V:tR rulebook, comments and all. That's why it's so funny.

[The Random NPC]

Wait, so you're saying that most Prometheans, as part of their long, arduous quest to rid themselves of a cursed existence, deliberately bring more of their kind into the world to live out that same cursed existence?

...Then again, this is the World of Darkness.

If I recall, some of the Prometheans are required to make more to become human. The Frankenstein ones in particular.

[Yuki Akuma]

If I recall, some of the Prometheans are required to make more to become human. The Frankenstein ones in particular.

All Prometheans are required to make one as part of their Pilgrimage. One. No more, no less.

Of course, some Prometheans abandon the Pilgrimage without ever making another. And some Prometheans create more progeny out of loneliness or what have you. And some Prometheans just erupt spontaneously due to the vagaries of the Divine Fire, although that's pretty rare.

[SiuiS]

If I recall, some of the Prometheans are required to make more to become human. The Frankenstein ones in particular.

So, wait, Promethean – the game largely touted as literally unplayable – has a win condition?

[Mr.Bookworm]

So, wait, Promethean – the game largely touted as literally unplayable – has a win condition?

Er, no, Promethean is entirely playable. Finding a game is the hard part, because it's super-niche, which is what people generally talk about with Promethean.

But, yeah, Promethean has a win condition. Follow the right path and you can become a human, no ifs or buts about it. Promethean borrows heavily from alchemy; you can, through effort and enlightenment, turn lead into gold.

Which is part of the reason it's entirely niche game, mind you.

[SiuiS]

Er, no, Promethean is entirely playable. Finding a game is the hard part, because it's super-niche, which is what people generally talk about with Promethean.

But, yeah, Promethean has a win condition. Follow the right path and you can become a human, no ifs or buts about it. Promethean borrows heavily from alchemy; you can, through effort and enlightenment, turn lead into gold.

Which is part of the reason it's entirely niche game, mind you.

*shrug* I dunno. I've heard a lot of love for the game, but at the same time it's supposed to be so bass-ackwards as to be untenable; a poor balance between going crazy because you'll never have friends and your friends going crazy because of your aura.

Although, now I remember a fan splat about dragons? Perhaps I'm mixing the two? That sounds like a dragon thing. Something involving Tiamat, too.

And, neat! Way better than Changeling. Wyrd 10 is "go stark raving mad and become one of the Gentry", isn't it?

[Turalisj]

I didn't even know there was anything for Wyrd 6-10 Changelings.

[The Random NPC]

And, neat! Way better than Changeling. Wyrd 10 is "go stark raving mad and become one of the Gentry", isn't it?

I don't believe it's that explicit, but it is heavily implied.

[Lord Raziere]

uh no.

Equinox Road only says you go Gentry if your at Wyrd 10 and Clarity 0.

from my recollection, I'll go check the actual book…

yup, it does, and it only happens when you reach Wyrd 10 and gradually start losing Clarity if you fail your roll when you wake up. the only way to avoid this is apparently venting Wyrd and going back down to Wyrd 9.

[SiuiS]

Oh, neat. I didn't know about the venting Wyrd being possible thing. That makes the end-game much better. Especially in games were the ST liked the idea of arcane experience so much, they imported it... And it only applies to Wyrd.

[Lord Raziere]

yea but be wary: the insanity and loss of Clarity in question is a slow thing and is kind of like a drug-induced hallucination, except you only feel, taste and see good things that make you want more and more and whatnot…its kind of addictive and is what leads the character to decide to back to Faerie and become Gentry, because yesitsfeelssogoodyesmoremoremore and the mundane world starts looking like dross and garbage in comparison…so it might a be a little hard to break out of it and vent it, because addictive Wyrd hallucinations and such.

[Sith_Happens]

Isn't Clarity capped at [10 - Wyrd] anyways?

[Mono Vertigo]

I'm... pretty sure it's not? Besides, if that cap existed, the Disenchanting Kiss Merit (requiring both Wyrd at 5+ and Clarity at 9+) and the Legacy of the Black Apple entitlement (Wyrd 5+, Clarity 6+) couldn't.

[Sith_Happens]

I'm... pretty sure it's not? Besides, if that cap existed, the Disenchanting Kiss Merit (requiring both Wyrd at 5+ and Clarity at 9+) and the Legacy of the Black Apple entitlement (Wyrd 5+, Clarity 6+) couldn't.

...Huh. Maybe I'm getting something mixed up, it has been over a year and a half since I've had the book.

[The Glyphstone]

...Huh. Maybe I'm getting something mixed up, it has been over a year and a half since I've had the book.

You may be accidentally transposing the restrictions on Cruac (Max level= 10-Humanity) over from Requiem.

[Pokonic]

A question for the board: would it be unusually cruel to drop a middling Leviathan as the main antagonist a group of seasoned Vampires that have, so far in-game, been in the dark relating to the existence of most other creatures?

[JMobius]

*shrug* I dunno. I've heard a lot of love for the game, but at the same time it's supposed to be so bass-ackwards as to be untenable; a poor balance between going crazy because you'll never have friends and your friends going crazy because of your aura.

That's why your other friends are supposed to be Prometheans. They don't go crazy.

[sktarq]

A question for the board: would it be unusually cruel to drop a middling Leviathan as the main antagonist a group of seasoned Vampires that have, so far in-game, been in the dark relating to the existence of most other creatures?

not really. Just be sure that you are ready to withdraw the creature if things go buggy. Don't have it on a suicide mission unless you are A: Really really sure your players CAN take it down B: Really really sure the players will WANT to take it down C: You are prepared for the Leviathan to pull off its mission or D: Have a dues-ex-machine waiting in the wings....Also playing lovecraftian things can be a bit of a stretch. Logic goes out the window but you have to use a degree of logic to allow for your players to come up with a plan and for you to get the psychology that make the thing scary. Just calling it lovecraftian doesn't work.

[Lady Serpentine]

A question for the board: would it be unusually cruel to drop a middling Leviathan as the main antagonist a group of seasoned Vampires that have, so far in-game, been in the dark relating to the existence of most other creatures?

What does their Cult look like? That's a pretty major factor, after all.

[Mr.Bookworm]

*shrug* I dunno. I've heard a lot of love for the game, but at the same time it's supposed to be so bass-ackwards as to be untenable; a poor balance between going crazy because you'll never have friends and your friends going crazy because of your aura.

Nope.

Promethean mechanics infodump:

Spoiler

Show

There are two primary "everyone hates you" mechanics, Disquiet and the Wasteland.

Disquiet is the torches and pitchforks mechanic. Prometheans are unnatural abominations, and every single human's lizard brain picks up on it and starts flipping out.

It's not too horrible, though. It's a contested Azoth (power stat) vs. Resolve+Composure roll, that happens whenever the human spends more than a few seconds around you. For every member of your throng that's of a different Lineage, you get a -1 to your Azoth roll, meaning it's entirely possible you're throwing a chance die. If the human succeeds on their roll, they're immune to your Disquiet for the scene.

When Disquiet does take hold, it takes a while to get to the "burn down the castle" stage. It's until third stage (the third roll, if they succeed every time) that they actually are driven to act; before that, it's just dreams and fantasies. It's not until the final stage that Disquiet actually becomes infectious.

So, you're capable of interaction with people, but you probably can't maintain a face-to-face relationship (Frankenstein pen pals are a-OK). This, obviously, kind of sucks, but that's why most Prometheans want to stop being a Promethean. It is not, however, unplayable in any sense.

Wasteland is an extension of Disquiet. It's the effect you have on the land around you if you stop in one place for too long. This is supposed to emphasize the TV Hulk vibe; the default Promethean game is very much a road trip.

However, it is pretty much entirely toothless. When you stop to rest for an hour, it puts a mark on the landscape. If you stay within a mile of that mark for a full 24 hours, the Wasteland starts spreading.

Here's a map of downtown Detroit. Take a look at the scale and think about it. An average commute totally defeats a Wasteland. Owning two apartments and switching between them every night would allow you almost total safety, if you're worried about it.

Also, like Disquiet, it takes a while for a Wasteland to get up to steam, and by "a while" I mean weeks or months. A first stage Wasteland is literally undetectable. It has absolutely no effects on anything. From there, it takes an entire week of you hanging around that exact same mile-wide area for a stage two Wasteland to take hold. If you do this, you're kind of an idiot. Even if the stage two happens, it's still not that bad. It's not pleasant, but it's things like "water tastes kind of nasty" and "people look less healthy".

After that? You have to spend a month hanging out in the mile-wide area plus a number of miles equal to your Azoth to spread it further.

So, actually causing a Wasteland of any actual bother pretty much requires the Promethean to not care in the slightest.

[Pokonic]

not really. Just be sure that you are ready to withdraw the creature if things go buggy. Don't have it on a suicide mission unless you are A: Really really sure your players CAN take it down B: Really really sure the players will WANT to take it down C: You are prepared for the Leviathan to pull off its mission or D: Have a dues-ex-machine waiting in the wings....Also playing lovecraftian things can be a bit of a stretch. Logic goes out the window but you have to use a degree of logic to allow for your players to come up with a plan and for you to get the psychology that make the thing scary. Just calling it lovecraftian doesn't work.

The general idea behind the reason they are going up against one at all is that it's the spearhead of a noir-ish game in Florida where the local vampires have noticed something messing around in the docks, which concerns the local Elder, as much of his funds come through shipping, among other things. Hence, the PC's get conscripted to 'investigate' the going on's in the place, which so far has resulted in a lot of dead shipping workers and a fight with something that was actually a rather nasty Lahmasu.

What does their Cult look like? That's a pretty major factor, after all.

Number (OOO), Zeal (OO), Fervor (O), Old Hands (OOO, Bribery)

Big numbers for a small-fry Tanninim (Which has a true form resembling something like a sea serpent mixed with a pufferfish), but it's a semi-extablished cult he obtained control of after the old god got offed in a bathtub with a electrical cable placed in it.

It's made out of a large minority of the dock workers themselves and a gang that was dangerous enough before it's leader found a fishier god in prison, and it's that very gang leader that the PC's are currently assuming is the main mover and shaker regarding the murders. Local officials are turning a blind eye to the thefts and murders because of what is lining there pockets, and the PC's themselves are now really concerned about what exactly was the creature they fought against that was waiting for them outside said gang leaders seaside apartment.

[Mewtarthio]

A question for the board: would it be unusually cruel to drop a middling Leviathan as the main antagonist a group of seasoned Vampires that have, so far in-game, been in the dark relating to the existence of most other creatures?

By "in the dark," do you mean "they have no idea what's out there," or "they've been playing an intrigue-focused game about vampires when suddenly Cthulhu wakes up"?

[Pokonic]

By "in the dark," do you mean "they have no idea what's out there," or "they've been playing an intrigue-focused game about vampires when suddenly Cthulhu wakes up"?

A little of group A, a little of group B...

So far, it's been them up against a well organized mortal crime ring, with is fitting for a bunch of neonate vamps who have been dealing with other neonates vamps and less-organized mortal crime rings run by said vamps, but in this case, the well organized mortal crime ring has a inner circle that also happens to worship Cthulhu. The characters have a general idea that there's probably more things besides vampires and werewolfs (which are the only other creatures that are aware that exist), but they assume that anything odd going on is another vampire doing weird crap.

What's even better is that a lot of the players have played Bloodlines, and naturally assume that, OOC, there's a Rokea wandering around.

[Sith_Happens]

So, in case anyone else has noticed we're on page 49:

General WoD Discussion III: Rage Against the (God-)Machine

[Lady Serpentine]

Is it just me, or does Leviathan have some oddities with its Disruption points?

For instance, "Going a month without seeing a known Atoll in the area." is Tranquility 5, while "Going a month without human contact..." is from the Tranquility 7 entry. Or, if not, what's the point of the latter existing at all, if you always have to see an Atoll once a month or be hit by a lower number roll anyway?

[Pokonic]

Is it just me, or does Leviathan have some oddities with its Disruption points?

For instance, "Going a month without seeing a known Atoll in the area." is Tranquility 5, while "Going a month without human contact..." is from the Tranquility 7 entry. Or, if not, what's the point of the latter existing at all, if you always have to see an Atoll once a month or be hit by a lower number roll anyway?

I think it's the difference between "Sheltering yourself from all of humanity for a month" and "Sheltering yourself from all of humanity but still not seeing one of the few things you can have a normal conversation with that doesn't degenerate into praises for you."

[Lady Serpentine]

I think it's the difference between "Sheltering yourself from all of humanity for a month" and "Sheltering yourself from all of humanity but still not seeing one of the few things you can have a normal conversation with that doesn't degenerate into praises for you."

I suppose. Just... Seems a little pointless? Because if you have to have contact with an Atoll every month, then you'll never be without human contact for a month anyway at 7.

Edit:

That is, the T7 'sin' does. The T5, sure, that makes sense.

[SiuiS]

I suppose. Just... Seems a little pointless? Because if you have to have contact with an Atoll every month, then you'll never be without human contact for a month anyway at 7.

Edit:

That is, the T7 'sin' does. The T5, sure, that makes sense.

It's like changeling. Killing is like, T5? Killing a human is T4.