OOTS #1121 - The Discussion Thread

[Shining Wrath]

I think we see that Durkon can affect Durkon^T, and that the vampire spirit simply lies about how powerless Durkon's soul is, because of course he would. Which does raise the question of how many other lies he tells his captive.

And the result of getting to the end of the memory will cause Durkon^T to change his battle plans - something like "This hall has skylights that are opened to let the sun in for the benefit of Freya worshipers" or some such.

[chrestomancy]

I doubt this has anything to do with Durkon's memory, but as Durkon* has "Dwarf" in his subtype, does that mean that if he dies in battle, honorably, performing his goddess's wishes, his soul won't return to Hel, but to Thor's domain? I wouldn't want to be Durkon* in a LG afterlife...

[Keltest]

I doubt this has anything to do with Durkon's memory, but as Durkon* has "Dwarf" in his subtype, does that mean that if he dies in battle, honorably, performing his goddess's wishes, his soul won't return to Hel, but to Thor's domain? I wouldn't want to be Durkon* in a LG afterlife...

Undead do not have souls as such, including vampires. What happens to Greg when the body is stakes is unknown. However, if he were a soul, he would still go to Hel, because that's where his normal afterlife would be as a cleric of Hel.

[factotum]

Yeah, I would expect at the very least that being a cleric in good standing of a particular God would mean you go to that god's domain after death--it wouldn't really make sense for clerics of Odin to end up in Thor's domain, for instance. The only in-strip evidence for that is Jirix's post-mortem vision, though, and since all goblinoids worship the Dark One (AFAIK) it doesn't really tell us much.

[Logosloki]

20minutes isn't even that long of a time for dish washing.

[JumboWheat01]

No takebacks now. You wanted no time jumps, you GET NO TIME JUMPS!

[Kish]

I doubt this has anything to do with Durkon's memory, but as Durkon* has "Dwarf" in his subtype, does that mean that if he dies in battle, honorably, performing his goddess's wishes, his soul won't return to Hel, but to Thor's domain? I wouldn't want to be Durkon* in a LG afterlife...

Having an afterlife requires having a life first. Greg has never been alive.

[Rrmcklin]

I think we see that Durkon can affect Durkon^T, and that the vampire spirit simply lies about how powerless Durkon's soul is, because of course he would. Which does raise the question of how many other lies he tells his captive.

And the result of getting to the end of the memory will cause Durkon^T to change his battle plans - something like "This hall has skylights that are opened to let the sun in for the benefit of Freya worshipers" or some such.

Without getting into a big argument about this again, I'll point out that "the vampire is lying about everything" isn't something that should be assumed because he's not saying these things just for Durkon's sake; it's for the audiences sake. If we're not supposed to trust what he says about vampirism it greatly detracts from the situation.

And, even if you'd say he would lie to Durkon, he certainly wouldn't lie to Hel. Going "he's evil, so of course he's lying" doesn't automatically follow. Durkon has been struggling almost this entire time, if he had the power to actually do anything (besides showing memories) it would have been made apparent by now.

[Elanasaurus]

20minutes isn't even that long of a time for dish washing.

Isn't he only washing for 2?

[The MunchKING]

20minutes isn't even that long of a time for dish washing.

I thought "Washing up" in this context meant "Washing your hands and/or any other body parts you'd like to be clean before you eat".

For dinner rather than from dinner indicated it's before dishes.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Going "he's evil, so of course he's lying" doesn't automatically follow.

Indeed. Lying is a chaotic act, not an evil one.

GW

[Ironsmith]

Indeed. Lying is a chaotic act, not an evil one.

GW

At the same time, though, the assumption that Greg might be lying isn't one that's entirely without precedent, given that the entire first half of the current arc was him pulling a massive string of deceptions to get himself to the Godsmoot. Whether he's lying to Durkon is up for debate, but he's certainly lied to other people before.

[Riftwolf]

My guess for the memory; it'll be something vitally important about Thors Priesthood which didnt make sense to Durkon until much later. So far all the memories about his life pre-exile have been before the one we're about to see. It'd be interesting if it was a detail he'd misunderstood for the longest time, and Durkon* would misread in the most negative light. I doubt it'll directly swing this fight, as I don't think this is the final battle of this book (feels kinda two-thirdy), but it might be setting up a massive presupposition in the climax.

[eilandesq]

The last panel seems to demonstrate that Durkula can't go back on the deal he just struck, even in minor details such as ordering Durkon to skip time in spite of Durkula forcing him to agree not to. I can't help but wonder if that means that Durkula will literally be unable to retrieve any more memories from Durkon until the end of this fight--giving Durkon the ability to resist Durkula when he would not have been able to before.

Also, it seems possible that Durkon's insistence on the one memory could be a red herring--Durkula might have floated that offer to see how Durkon would react to it: if Durkon had accepted the offer without hesitation, Durkula would have suspected that Durkon *did* have some unknown information that he would need to defeat Roy, and accepted the subjective tedium involved in ruthlessly and comprehensively sifting through the rest of Durkon's possibly relevant memories to find it. By making a single demand and showing reluctance to accept something that Durkon should be *thrilled* about, he may have enticed Durkula to accept the deal, become a bit more paranoid about the whole situation, *and* deny himself a major asset in Durkon's memories. Not bad.

[Peelee]

The last panel seems to demonstrate that Durkula can't go back on the deal he just struck, even in minor details such as ordering Durkon to skip time in spite of Durkula forcing him to agree not to. I can't help but wonder if that means that Durkula will literally be unable to retrieve any more memories from Durkon until the end of this fight--giving Durkon the ability to resist Durkula when he would not have been able to before.

No. It's a deal of mutual agreement, not a deal that affects how the world works. The vampire can't go back on the deal because then Durkon can too, and Durkon not doing that is the sole reason the vamp accepted the deal.

Durkon won't magically get power over the vampire just because the vampire was a little annoyed.

[Breccia]

No takebacks now.

"No Backsies" is one of the few commandments of both Thor and Hel.

[schmunzel]

I like this theory.

Spoiler

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And if/when it turns out to be about his father dying without honor, it means it's pretty likely to involve Hela as well. Maybe his mother told him a secret about the pantheon that not even Hela knows- maybe "dying honorably" turns out to be more broad a definition than she was led to believe. It could be something his mother made up to make him feel better, but Hela/Greg may not be willing to take the chance.
Or something.

Spoiler: wild theory alert

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# Durkons Daddy was a priest/follower of Loki

sch

[Ruck]

Without getting into a big argument about this again, I'll point out that "the vampire is lying about everything" isn't something that should be assumed because he's not saying these things just for Durkon's sake; it's for the audiences sake. If we're not supposed to trust what he says about vampirism it greatly detracts from the situation.

And, even if you'd say he would lie to Durkon, he certainly wouldn't lie to Hel. Going "he's evil, so of course he's lying" doesn't automatically follow. Durkon has been struggling almost this entire time, if he had the power to actually do anything (besides showing memories) it would have been made apparent by now.

I think Durkula would definitely lie to Durkon.

What I don't think (and what I think would be bad writing) is that Durkula would lie when there's no character to deceive. That would be explicitly trying to fool the audience. I agree he wouldn't lie to Hel.

I wish I had a good guess for where the story in Durkon's memory is going. Of the guesses I've heard so far, I'd bet most likely on Durkon learning something about the gods that Durkula didn't know, which could cause a change of plans, especially if Durkula takes the wrong key information from the memory. (Durkon learns something that causes Durkula to flee and join the Exarch is intriguing, but I'm not sure why Durkon would be motivated to get Durkula to flee given that the Order seems to have the advantage here. The thing about his dad is plausible, though we have so little to go on there that it's hard to say what or how.)

[SavageWombat]

I think it's more than just plausible. I don't think Rich made up that detail just as a curiosity - it's got to be relevant to the story. And I think the original idea-smith is correct that this is a perfect time for it to come up. I'm excited to see how it comes up.

[Kish]

Two things I am confident of:

1) Durkon will not suddenly pull out a deus ex machina that incapacitates Greg here. If he could do that he would have done it long before now. He may, or may not, weaken or distract Greg in the future at a point where the Order is losing. He will not do so to take the situation from "the Order is winning" to "the Order has won."
2) Greg's evil will remain as unwavering as Tarquin's throughout his existence.

[jere7my]

Two things I am confident of:

2) Greg's evil will remain as unwavering as Tarquin's throughout his existence.

Did we determine Tarquin was evil? I thought we settled on the darker side of LN.

[Peelee]

Did we determine Tarquin was evil? I thought we settled on the darker side of LN.

Yes, the comic was very ambiguous about that.

[Elenna]

I'm sure Durkon's father will come up again, maybe now, but I have no idea how that might impact the plot.
I expect the fact that Greg pronounces "something" as "somethin'" in the third-last panel of 963 will help somehow, but I have no idea how.

Something will definitely happen with the fact that Durkon's exile is over, but I don't expect that to be relevant until Greg is dusted and they have to figure out what Hilgya and Kudzu are going to do. Mostly because I can't think of any way it might be relevant to the fight.

[zimmerwald1915]

Yes, the comic was very ambiguous about that.

About as ambiguous on jere7my's sarcasm.

[Peelee]

About as ambiguous on jere7my's sarcasm.

I' fairly sure I'll never have reason to stop saying this, but I am not a smart man.

[Ruck]

I think it's more than just plausible. I don't think Rich made up that detail just as a curiosity - it's got to be relevant to the story. And I think the original idea-smith is correct that this is a perfect time for it to come up. I'm excited to see how it comes up.

You mean the idea about what happened to Durkon's father being different than the story we know? Since we learned that when Durkula requested the memory from Durkon, I'm not sure what would come of showing Durkula the real memory unless it's to cast doubt on everything he's been shown previously (which isn't a bad idea, now that I think about it).

I do think it a little suspicious that Thirden tells young Durkon that Sidgi's weekly dinner companions didn't know her at all until after this had already happened. That's the kind of peculiar detail that could make me buy this theory a little more.

edit: I spent enough time looking for #991 to get the details, that I'll link it for anyone else interested so they don't have to do the same.

[happycrow]

I suspect it's something about the nature of honor itself.
You know, a strange twist that throws it all into a panic and levels the forum in feels?

[DaOldeWolf]

OK. This might be a stretch but I have a theory of what it could be. On his first day as a cleric, he looks at the list of rich donors. Something tells me that someone related to Durkon is on that list, maybe a leader from a clan, maybe someone who could have helped her mother, maybe both. It could even be Durkon´s own father.

[Yendor]

OK. This might be a stretch but I have a theory of what it could be. On his first day as a cleric, he looks at the list of rich donors. Something tells me that someone related to Durkon is on that list, maybe a leader from a clan, maybe someone who could have helped her mother, maybe both. It could even be Durkon´s own father.

Now's probably a good time to point out that one of those names is in fact:

Spoiler

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Sigdi Thundershield.

The one above it is Shirra Copperbottom, which may be Sigdi's friend.

Here's the font.

[Ruck]

OK. This might be a stretch but I have a theory of what it could be. On his first day as a cleric, he looks at the list of rich donors. Something tells me that someone related to Durkon is on that list, maybe a leader from a clan, maybe someone who could have helped her mother, maybe both. It could even be Durkon´s own father.

Now's probably a good time to point out that one of those names is in fact:

Spoiler

Show

Sigdi Thundershield.

The one above it is Shirra Copperbottom, which may be Sigdi's friend.

Here's the font.

What strip is this? I tried looking but I didn't have any luck finding it.