Star Trek: Picard

[Palanan]

So this is apparently a thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3om4V_-Y0Q

I'd be interested, except this is yet another attempt to get me to sign up for the CBS streaming service, and that's a hard pass.

That said...frack it, I miss Picard. If anything could pull me into serious Trek nostalgia, this would be it.

[Lemmy]

I'm pretty sure they'll just do the same kind of disservice to the character that was done to Luke Skywalker, so I'm not excited in the least for this series, despite loving the work of Sir Patrick Steward and holding Picard as one of the best characters in fiction.

My only consolation is that much like Discovery, this series take place in the "Prime Timeline". i.e.: Not-Really-Canon. Well... Not the classic canon, anyway. Arguably a canon of its own.

[Mando Knight]

My only consolation is that much like Discovery, this series take place in the "Prime Timeline". i.e.: Not-Really-Canon. Well... Not the classic canon, anyway. Arguably a canon of its own.

The "Prime Timeline" means "Canon as far as CBS, the official arbiters of what canon is for Star Trek TV series, is concerned", as opposed to alternate timelines like the Mirror Universe(s?), the Kelvin Timeline (the official name for the alternate timeline of the JJ Abrams reboot movies, so named because its primary divergence is the destruction of the USS Kelvin), and the "Worf lost the bat'leth tournament at Forcas III" timeline.

[Inchhighguy]

I just hope that the show won't be The Picard Talk Show. That idea was floating around for a while. And, saddily, Sir Patrick is a goofy old guy and would do that crazy show.

Like a normal person comes to Pat and says ''hey lets do a Picard send off show. We can wrap up the character, give him and ending.....you know a lot like the movie Logan(remember you were in that movie?)"

Saddly, Pat would be like "nahhhh....I'm doing a show where we talk to fruit"

But...silly person says "wow, lets do a star trek show with Picard as a talk show host! We could do lots of goofy stuff...Vulcans that want to mate every year! Robots with no hearts! Aliens made of oil!"

And...sigh...Pat would be all "Wow! that is the best idea ever! Lets make that show!"


I can just hope it's a legacy show...a final send off for Picard. A nice last adventure...but NOT one where Picard punches the alien and saves the universe.....but one where Picard is more of a teacher and adviser to some new, young folks.

Though I'd sure love for the last minute of the last show to have Picard die.....and wake up in a white space with Q there :)

[Algeh]

I just hope that the show won't be The Picard Talk Show. That idea was floating around for a while. And, saddily, Sir Patrick is a goofy old guy and would do that crazy show.

Like a normal person comes to Pat and says ''hey lets do a Picard send off show. We can wrap up the character, give him and ending.....you know a lot like the movie Logan(remember you were in that movie?)"

Saddly, Pat would be like "nahhhh....I'm doing a show where we talk to fruit"

But...silly person says "wow, lets do a star trek show with Picard as a talk show host! We could do lots of goofy stuff...Vulcans that want to mate every year! Robots with no hearts! Aliens made of oil!"

And...sigh...Pat would be all "Wow! that is the best idea ever! Lets make that show!"


I can just hope it's a legacy show...a final send off for Picard. A nice last adventure...but NOT one where Picard punches the alien and saves the universe.....but one where Picard is more of a teacher and adviser to some new, young folks.

Though I'd sure love for the last minute of the last show to have Picard die.....and wake up in a white space with Q there :)

When I was a kid, I used to fantasize that we'd get a Star Trek Channel that basically had this. In-universe news shows, in-universe sports broadcasts, in-universe talk shows, in-universe ads for scammy correspondence courses, the whole 9 yards. As an adult I am much less convinced this is actually a good idea (I also no longer try to go directly from riding a bike to climbing a tree without touching the ground in between and with a squirt gun in one hand), but if CBS decides to go all-in on that particular childhood dream of mine and create all of those things I will probably pay for a month of their streaming service eventually to see how that actually looks. I doubt I'd stick around longer than a month, though, unless it turns out to be a much better idea than that whole bike-tree-squirt gun thing was.

[Lemmy]

The "Prime Timeline" means "Canon as far as CBS, the official arbiters of what canon is for Star Trek TV series, is concerned", as opposed to alternate timelines like the Mirror Universe(s?), the Kelvin Timeline (the official name for the alternate timeline of the JJ Abrams reboot movies, so named because its primary divergence is the destruction of the USS Kelvin), and the "Worf lost the bat'leth tournament at Forcas III" timeline.

Actually, they do have separate canons, specially thanks to the rule that Bad Robot's ST has to be different both visually and thematically from classic ST. CBS specifically wanted this in order to keep the whole merchandise from classic ST to themselves. That said, there's definitely an attempt of both CBS and Bad Robot to muddle the waters in the public's mind, so that people actually confuse Prime timeline with the old canon timeline...

The closest that "Prime Timeline" gets to old canon is "Bad Robot's interpretation of events shown in classic canon".

There's actually a really good and comprehensive video on the subject by Midnight's Edge:

[JadedDM]

CBS owns Star Trek. Therefore, CBS determines what is or is not canon. CBS says Discovery takes place in the Prime universe, and is canon. Therefore it is. You don't have to like it. You can come up with your own fanfiction and headcanon that ignores it. But it is what it is.

Speaking of which, I cannot wait to hear people try to explain to me how Star Trek Picard is not real Star Trek. That should be interesting.

[russdm]

What i took from the preview were:

1) They made Picard an Admiral, so he managed to get kicked upstairs at some point.

2) Picard has been running his family's wine making place, the vineyard and is producing more Picard wines

3) At some point, Picard left Starfleet for reasons, that apparently made him depressed so he left Starfleet

4) Picard led a rescue "armada" that went horribly wrong somehow (Seems to relate to the above point)

Of these points, i can't understand how it would fit the character. I mean, Picard got a promotion, then lead some armada on a rescue, that had bad stuff happen and he quit? They couldn't let him retire? He had to leave because he lost his faith somehow?

It just feels, .... Wrong to me. I do really like that he is continuing with the family winemaking business though

[JadedDM]

Well, they say that this show will take place 20 years after Nemesis. Assuming that's accurate, that would mean the show will take place in 2399 (as Nemesis occurred in 2379).

Romulus was destroyed in 2387. Maybe that has something to do with the armada Picard led, and what caused him to leave Starfleet? Maybe he was trying to save the planet, and obviously failed. I'm just speculating, though.

Worth noting that the future we saw in All Good Things took place in 2395, so a few years before this. Maybe we'll get to see Data with a white stripe in his hair?

[Mando Knight]

Actually, they do have separate canons, specially thanks to the rule that Bad Robot's ST has to be different both visually and thematically from classic ST. CBS specifically wanted this in order to keep the whole merchandise from classic ST to themselves. That said, there's definitely an attempt of both CBS and Bad Robot to muddle the waters in the public's mind, so that people actually confuse Prime timeline with the old canon timeline...

The closest that "Prime Timeline" gets to old canon is "Bad Robot's interpretation of events shown in classic canon".

There's actually a really good and comprehensive video on the subject by Midnight's Edge:

Except he's officially wrong. Statements by CBS, the showrunners, the writers, etc. all indicate that the Prime Timeline is the canon, with no "classic canon" qualifiers anywhere. If you're going to declare Discovery and Picard non-canon in spite of it, you might as well cut out every episode you don't like out of the canon of every other series, and you'll have the same level of authority (though I think the number of people who will object to memory-holing "Dear Doctor" and "Threshold" may be in the single digits).

Furthermore, if fan-declared inconsistencies and a decade of distance from the last TV show are enough to get Discovery removed from a "Classic canon", then TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT should also all be discarded for the "One True Trek" of the original 3 seasons with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

[Kato]

I love Sir Stewart and even though I was born a little late and am much more a DS9 / VOY generation viewer, I would love to see basically anything with him in it. I don't care how serious or goofy it turns out to be. (but I prefer goofy nowadays)

[JadedDM]

He's a pretty wild and goofy guy. I think I read once that he said one of his favorite shows was Beavis and Butthead. He seems to have a blast playing Bullock, the mad CIA director in American Dad!. And you know that wild and seemingly random dune buggy scene in Nemesis? Apparently that was all Stewart's idea.

[Maelstrom]

OK, from that trailer I surmise that Picard has lost his mind.


Why in the world would he put Burgundian wine in a Bordeaux bottle??!!

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by JadedDM
CBS owns Star Trek. Therefore, CBS determines what is or is not canon. CBS says Discovery takes place in the Prime universe, and is canon. Therefore it is.

Pretty much this.

But based on the first hour of the Discovery pilot, it sure looks like the Abrams timeline, so I can understand why some people would be a little confused. I’m one of them.

Originally Posted by Algeh
(I also no longer try to go directly from riding a bike to climbing a tree without touching the ground in between and with a squirt gun in one hand)

Dammit, I knew my childhood was missing something.

Originally Posted by Maelstrom
Why in the world would he put Burgundian wine in a Bordeaux bottle??!!

In the future, humanity has evolved.

[Kitten Champion]

I would watch Picard's trials and tribulations in running Chateau Picard. I'm afraid they'll muck it up by bringing spaceships and interstellar politics into it.

They should find someway to crossover with Joseph Sisko's Creole Kitchen. I know Brock Peters passed on, but if you can replace Spock several times I think you could manage him.

[zimmerwald1915]

There's actually a really good and comprehensive video on the subject by Midnight's Edge:

Is this the level to which our conspiracy theories have sunk? In my day, we had mind-control fluoride, chemtrails, and UFOs. Kids these days are such a disappointment.

In the future, humanity has evolved.

Isn't there an interpretation making the rounds that human cultures were so bamboozled by World War III that the reconstruction that followed basically amounted to cosplay? Which is why Frangleterre is as much a thing in the Star Trek universe as if the Plantagenets had won the Hundred Years' War, only moreso because the Plantagenets actually spoke French and would not have exported the English peasant-language to France under any circumstances?

[Narkis]

So this is apparently a thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3om4V_-Y0Q

I'd be interested, except this is yet another attempt to get me to sign up for the CBS streaming service, and that's a hard pass.

That said...frack it, I miss Picard. If anything could pull me into serious Trek nostalgia, this would be it.

This video is unavailable for my country. I guess they don't want me seeing it?

[Dire Moose]

I liked the sound of the flute at the end; hopefully it’s referencing what I think it’s referencing.

[Rodin]

Isn't there an interpretation making the rounds that human cultures were so bamboozled by World War III that the reconstruction that followed basically amounted to cosplay? Which is why Frangleterre is as much a thing in the Star Trek universe as if the Plantagenets had won the Hundred Years' War, only moreso because the Plantagenets actually spoke French and would not have exported the English peasant-language to France under any circumstances?

That is a heck of a reach to try and explain why Picard speaks French sometimes, when the much easier (and canon) explanation is that he is actually, y'know, French. The French still speak French 500 years into the future because, well, they're French. They're much more likely to maintain language identity than many other countries due to how strict they are about maintaining the language's purity. Picard otherwise having an English accent is simply because that's Patrick Stewart's natural accent and they were smart enough to not have him try and fake a French one.

Then again, the explanation makes a lot more sense than most things generated by the fandom. I'll allow it.

This video is unavailable for my country. I guess they don't want me seeing it?

I had the same, just to go to Youtube and look for "Picard trailer" and you should be able to find a local version.

In the future, humanity has evolved.

Behold, the future of mankind:

Spoiler

Show

[Lemmy]

Except he's officially wrong. Statements by CBS, the showrunners, the writers, etc. all indicate that the Prime Timeline is the canon, with no "classic canon" qualifiers anywhere. If you're going to declare Discovery and Picard non-canon in spite of it, you might as well cut out every episode you don't like out of the canon of every other series, and you'll have the same level of authority (though I think the number of people who will object to memory-holing "Dear Doctor" and "Threshold" may be in the single digits).

Furthermore, if fan-declared inconsistencies and a decade of distance from the last TV show are enough to get Discovery removed from a "Classic canon", then TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT should also all be discarded for the "One True Trek" of the original 3 seasons with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

Bad Robot is literally only allowed to cash in on the version of Star Trek they create. CBS explicitly didn't give them ownership of older material, and has effectively kept it a separate franchise, since they want all that sweet sweet merchandise money for themselves. Prime is basically canon of a different franchise, a multiverse that does include the Kelvin Timeline. It's a franchise that is contractually obligated to be different from classic ST.

CBS could literally make a show right now with the same characters, during the same time period and it would still be separate from the "Prime" timeline. Hell! The term "Prime Timeline" didn't even exist until a few years ago.

Is this the level to which our conspiracy theories have sunk? In my day, we had mind-control fluoride, chemtrails, and UFOs. Kids these days are such a disappointment.

Is this the level to which arguing has sunk? Calling anything "Conspiracy Theory"... Now... They might be wrong, but that doesn't make it a "conspiracy theory".

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Rodin
Behold, the future of mankind....

My soul hurts for seeing that.

[zimmerwald1915]

Behold, the future of mankind:

Spoiler

Show

Joke: I thought mankind's future was to become salamanders, not lobsters.

Alternative joke: Lobsters are what we are now, sayeth the Discourse.

[JadedDM]

Hell! The term "Prime Timeline" didn't even exist until a few years ago.

We are aware. The term 'prime timeline' came about after the first Abrams Star Trek film, with the creation of a new timeline (the Kelvin Timeline). Leonard Nimoy played 'Spock Prime' which is where the term 'Prime Timeline' came from. Thus, there were now two timelines. The prime one, that is the original (which includes TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, DIS and soon, PIC), and the new one, the Kelvin timeline (which includes the three Abrams films).

Is this the level to which arguing has sunk? Calling anything "Conspiracy Theory"... Now... They might be wrong, but that doesn't make it a "conspiracy theory".

You're offering a theory that has no evidence to back it up, based on a youtube video, that flies directly in the face of established fact. So...yeah, it's a conspiracy theory.

[Mando Knight]

Bad Robot is literally only allowed to cash in on the version of Star Trek they create. CBS explicitly didn't give them ownership of older material, and has effectively kept it a separate franchise, since they want all that sweet sweet merchandise money for themselves. Prime is basically canon of a different franchise, a multiverse that does include the Kelvin Timeline. It's a franchise that is contractually obligated to be different from classic ST.

This is all coming from CBS. From their showrunners, executive producers, the VP of Star Trek Brand Management, all of them. Midnight's Edge's argument holds about as much water as some other random Youtuber declaring that Solo isn't a real Star Wars film and Kathleen Kennedy is lying to us all.

[Kato]

You're offering a theory that has no evidence to back it up, based on a youtube video, that flies directly in the face of established fact. So...yeah, it's a conspiracy theory.

I'm not sure you know what a conspiracy is?


Havong seen the trailer... I'm kind of underwhelmed now. I mean, there's nothing bad but there seems hardly any substance to it. If I had to take a guess maybe it's a "Picard tells his life story" thing? We'll see.

[Inchhighguy]

Romulus was destroyed in 2387. Maybe that has something to do with the armada Picard led, and what caused him to leave Starfleet? Maybe he was trying to save the planet, and obviously failed. I'm just speculating, though.

{scrubbed}

It's interesting to note the rumor that when ALL the merchandisers were shown the ''new Star Trek Picard" stuff, they ALL said ''nope, no way we can sell this non-Star Trek stuff to a market that does not exist..... This might have forced the show to make it self a bit more Star Trek, and a bit less ''random space show with a Star Trek label".

We are aware. The term 'prime timeline' came about after the first Abrams Star Trek film, with the creation of a new timeline (the Kelvin Timeline).

Wait that's not right.

There are two Timelines:

1.The Unnamed Classic Timeline-This is the OS-NG-(movies)-DS9-VOY-ENT one. Basicaly all of Star Trek before 2005. This timeline is ''dead" and there are no plans to make any TV shows or movies set in this timeline. It only exists to still sell ''classic" Star Trek merchindise.

2.The Prime Time Line...the Only One That Exists. This is the new ''reimaged" Star Trek that is a copy of...er, that nameless time line they want you to forget about, BUT everything happened VERY different...in cool, awesome, hip, diverse, politically correct and very, very, very, very ,very un-Star Trek way.

So for example, Picard was the captain of the Enteprise for a while and had some missions/adventures sort of like and based off the unnamed forget it eixists timeline, BUT everything happened VERY diffrently...in cool, awesome, hip, diverse, politically correct and very, very, very, very ,very un-Star Trek way. So Prime Picard fought the Borg and became Locuts, but it was different then the story we know.

[zimmerwald1915]

There are two Timelines:

1.The Unnamed Classic Timeline-This is the OS-NG-(movies)-DS9-VOY-ENT one. Basicaly all of Star Trek before 2005. This timeline is ''dead" and there are no plans to make any TV shows or movies set in this timeline. It only exists to still sell ''classic" Star Trek merchindise.

2.The Prime Time Line...the Only One That Exists. This is the new ''reimaged" Star Trek that is a copy of...er, that nameless time line they want you to forget about, BUT everything happened VERY different...in cool, awesome, hip, diverse, politically correct and very, very, very, very ,very un-Star Trek way.

And this is why I called it a conspiracy theory, @Lemmy.

As for the bold, Star Trek has indulged in *ahem* problematic tropes of all sorts (see, e.g., Code of Honor, Justice, and Up the Long Ladder), but overall, its efforts have been directed toward promoting both diversity and political correctness. Not just as a matter of uncommented-on representation either. The slogan "infinite diversity in infinite combinations" goes back to the Original Series, and is presented outright as a Very Good Idea. The Federation is a multicultural democracy - its enemies are ethnostates with at most subject peoples, their leaders autocrats, oligarchs, or fascists. If The Neutral Zone is any indication, the Federation is what people are imagining when they use the slogan "fully automated luxury space communism" (yes, that combination of words is a slogan).

In sum, there is literally nothing under the Sun more Star Trek than promoting the latest wave of diversity and political correctness, whatever it happens to be, and if you say otherwise you are either ignorant or lying to push an agenda.

FWIW, I could definitely see Star Trek: Picard being framed around the problem of Romulan-Vulcan reunification following the destruction of Romulus and the displacement of her people (to the rest of the Star Empire, to the Federation, to other neighboring powers, etc.). Makes a damn fine premise, I think.

[russdm]

President Trunup builds Space Wall around the Federation to keep them out. But Admiral Picard is all mushy and like ''we MUST allow them to live in the Federation!". So he leads rag tag caravan fleet over the wall, and into the Federation. But Section 31 swoops in to save the day and blows up the whole fleet with a black hole bomb

I disagree with that on the following points:

1) Space is big, like really big, its a long walk/ladder climb from your quarters to Quark's big.

2) The Federation actually wants good relations with the Romulans, and help out people who need even if it kills them somehow. They need to trim those Red Shirt numbers somehow

3) Given their abilities, Section 31 has not exactly shown itself to that capable. I mean, good doctor HolmesBashir and Mr. Watson-OBrian was able to take out the leadership of the bunch, and neither had any real "Spy" training/skills. Bashir played around as a fantasy, yeah, but i don't that would really translate to James Bond levels of skill. So, clearly then, Section 31 couldn't have been that good, and since we hear nothing about threats that ole 31 protected the Feddies from, how capable is it? PLus they like being all hidden in shadows.

4) I think the instant that a black hole bomb gets revealed, the Klingons will be the first to say "Screw our alliance, we want that bomb. Give to us or die." Followed by everybody else.

A black hole bomb is a major upset to the balance of power, and nothing so far has shown that Starfleet or the admirals in Starfleet can be trusted with something that powerful. The Klingons would react the same as they did over Genesis and massively more so.

5) The whole thing goes against Starfleet's principles. Or what is stated to be Starfleet's principles, which we can presume are also the Federations.

So, again, that is not happening.

[Peelee]

Furthermore, if fan-declared inconsistencies and a decade of distance from the last TV show are enough to get Discovery removed from a "Classic canon", then TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT should also all be discarded for the "One True Trek" of the original 3 seasons with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.

5. You forgot the animated series which completed the 5-year mission.

[BeerMug Paladin]

2.The Prime Time Line...the Only One That Exists. This is the new ''reimaged" Star Trek that is a copy of...er, that nameless time line they want you to forget about, BUT everything happened VERY different...in cool, awesome, hip, diverse, politically correct and very, very, very, very ,very un-Star Trek way.

So for example, Picard was the captain of the Enteprise for a while and had some missions/adventures sort of like and based off the unnamed forget it eixists timeline, BUT everything happened VERY diffrently...in cool, awesome, hip, diverse, politically correct and very, very, very, very ,very un-Star Trek way. So Prime Picard fought the Borg and became Locuts, but it was different then the story we know.

So, I take it that your issue is that they're pretending Star Trek is cool and awesome.