Tsukiko's Prohibited Schools?

[NeoSeraphi]

Tsukiko is a necromancer mystic theurge. By definition of the way OotS works, that most likely means she's a specialist wizard/cleric. (Though she could just be another Miko who doesn't actually abide by the name of class identity thing)

However, the research she was doing on the ritual would suggest she's a wizard instead of a sorcerer ("It's an Associate's Degree")

If that's the case, she would need to have at least two banned schools, and they couldn't be necromancy or divination. She's used shout before (to attack the prison tower when Azure City was destroyed) so that means she hasn't banned Evocation. What do you all think?

[Ekul]

Tsukiko is a necromancer mystic theurge. By definition of the way OotS works, that most likely means she's a specialist wizard/cleric. (Though she could just be another Miko who doesn't actually abide by the name of class identity thing)

However, the research she was doing on the ritual would suggest she's a wizard instead of a sorcerer ("It's an Associate's Degree")

If that's the case, she would need to have at least two banned schools, and they couldn't be necromancy or divination. She's used shout before (to attack the prison tower when Azure City was destroyed) so that means she hasn't banned Evocation. What do you all think?

According to Class and Geekery she's used: Fly, Lightning Bolt, Shout, Teleport, Dominate Person, Create Undead, Fireball, Invisibility, Electric Orb Fire Orb, Lesser Acid Orb, Cold Orb, Mind Fog.

So she can use Transmutation, Conjuration, Enchantment and Illusion, unless she can get some from being a cleric. Therefore, if these are all part of the wizard spell list, then she cannot cast Abjuration nor Divination.

[NeoSeraphi]

But wizards can't take divination as a prohibited school...

Hmm..The Conjuration and Evocation spells are obviously from the wizard spell list, and Dominate Person and Mind Fog are both Wiz only too...But Invisibility is from the Trickery Domain, which certainly does fit Tsukiko. Perhaps she banned Illusion as well?

[Ekul]

But wizards can't take divination as a prohibited school...

Hmm..The Conjuration and Evocation spells are obviously from the wizard spell list, and Dominate Person and Mind Fog are both Wiz only too...But Invisibility is from the Trickery Domain, which certainly does fit Tsukiko. Perhaps she banned Illusion as well?

Oh shoot, forgot about that rule. But yeah, that does make perfect sense. I suppose it's within the realm of possibility that she's using some homebrewed/ splatbook domain for mind fog and dominate person, but I doubt it, since Haley seemed genuinely surprised when she used something non-core.

[NeoSeraphi]

Yes, but have you seen the sheer number of wights she has? Even if her caster level is really high, she can only animate one corpse per casting of animate dead and create undead she has. She has to be a specialist, even if it is only one extra spell slot per level, that's an extra casting of it per level per day that she can use.

[Blisstake]

Maybe she doesn't have any prohibited schools. That's always a possibility. I mean, I'm not sure if there's a limit to the number of wights you can have. Especially if cast over the period of months.

[NeoSeraphi]

Maybe she doesn't have any prohibited schools. That's always a possibility. I mean, I'm not sure if there's a limit to the number of wights you can have. Especially if cast over the period of months.

Yes, but do you really think with how...necrop- er...how much she loves undead, she really wouldn't have specialized? It just seems out of character for someone so undead-centric (with a seemingly endless source of evocation, strangely) to not specialize as a necromancer.

[Ekul]

Yes, but have you seen the sheer number of wights she has? Even if her caster level is really high, she can only animate one corpse per casting of animate dead and create undead she has. She has to be a specialist, even if it is only one extra spell slot per level, that's an extra casting of it per level per day that she can use.

Oh. Unfortunately I'm not really knowledgeable in the ways of necromancy or undead creation. Only one person has ever tried to create undead in our group and I had to convince one of the players that Ray of Enfeeblement and Chill Touch weren't inherently evil.

The travel domain contains both Teleport and Fly, but that seems unlikely judging by her character.

[NeoSeraphi]

Oh. Unfortunately I'm not really knowledgeable in the ways of necromancy or undead creation. Only one person has ever tried to create undead in our group and I had to convince one of the players that Ray of Enfeeblement and Chill Touch weren't inherently evil.

The travel domain contains both Teleport and Fly, but that seems unlikely judging by her character.

Do we know what deity she worships?

[Ekul]

Do we know what deity she worships?

I don't think so. It's apparently not necessary for a Cleric in 3.5 have a deity. It's possible she's just got a divine "Aura" of a particular alignment.

[Blisstake]

Yes, but do you really think with how...necrop- er...how much she loves undead, she really wouldn't have specialized? It just seems out of character for someone so undead-centric (with a seemingly endless source of evocation, strangely) to not specialize as a necromancer.

She's got cleric spells for that, though. In a sense, she already specializes in necromancy, so there's really not as much sense restricting yourself to not casting 2 schools for the benefit of getting extra spells you'd be able to cast anyway.

I mean, yeah, it's possible either way. We really don't have enough information to make a conclusive statement that she's a specialist or not.

[NeoSeraphi]

Well, that certainly makes it difficult for us to narrow down her domain choices. Let's see...Xykon asked her to heal him as best she could and she used inflict critical wounds instead of harm. Not surprising, as she is a half-wizard half-cleric. So if she has up to 5th level spells as both a wizard (Dominate Person, Mind Fog, Teleport) and as a cleric...though she has the ability to cast create undead and that's a 6th level spell for both clerics and wizards...

[ORione]

I would be shocked if Tsukiko wasn't a necromancer and did not have the Death domain.

[OrzhvoPatriarch]

Do we know what deity she worships?

" Tsukiko uses the same color for her divine magic as the Azurite priests because they both worship the Twelve Gods, who are worshipped as a pantheon by all alignments in Azure City.

Word of Giant says all 12 Southern Gods

Edit: Which taken as a pantheon means she could likely take just about any domain.

[NeoSeraphi]

Word of Giant says all 12 Southern Gods

Wow...that makes it slightly less hard to guess what domains she's allowed...Hmmm...lol obviously the Animal Domain...

[OrzhvoPatriarch]

I suppose we could go though the comic, look at all her spells, and the one that is cast using her blue cleric magic instead of her arcane dark purpleish grey. That would be the spell she got from a domain.

That is assuming that The Giant cared enough about banned schools and her classes to take it into consideration with his art.

Edit: And she does seem to cast all of her arcane spells with her arcane color, this would lead me to believe she is either a sorceress or Rich didn't care about banned schools.

[Blisstake]

Well, that certainly makes it difficult for us to narrow down her domain choices. Let's see...Xykon asked her to heal him as best she could and she used inflict critical wounds instead of harm. Not surprising, as she is a half-wizard half-cleric. So if she has up to 5th level spells as both a wizard (Dominate Person, Mind Fog, Teleport) and as a cleric...though she has the ability to cast create undead and that's a 6th level spell for both clerics and wizards...

NPCs can level up, too. I think she could only cast 5th level spells during the battle, and now she can cast 6th. At any rate, you can usually tell what spell she's casting based on what shade of blue her hands glow.

[NeoSeraphi]

I suppose we could go though the comic, look at all her spells, and the one that is cast using her blue cleric magic instead of her arcane dark purpleish grey. That would be the spell she got from a domain.

That is assuming that The Giant cared enough about banned schools and her classes to take it into consideration with his art.

Edit: And she does seem to cast all of her arcane spells with her arcane color, this would lead me to believe she is either a sorceress or Rich didn't care about banned schools.

She has quite a few 5th level spells to be a sorceress with only 3/4 of her build devoted to sorcerer (I'm assuming Xykon is the only epic enemy in the group)

She's got Dominate Person, Mind Fog, and Teleport, which would require her to have 13 levels of sorcerer, which would require her to be a 9th level mystic theurge and (at least) a 17th level character. I suppose it's possible, but I think she's probably just a generalist wizard then. (We already had Sabine as a sorceress) Oh well...

[Gift Jeraff]

I think she's simply a generalist wizard. Maybe she started off as a wizard, then had a life-changing experience that made her hate the living, so she took levels in cleric and mystic theurge for various reasons (Cleric: more negative energy spells, rebuke undead, (un)death-related domains, need 2nd-level divine magic to qualify for MT; Mystic Theurge: more spells per day).

EDIT: Also, she can quicken spells and was arrested for "Unnatural Acts of Wizardry." Something tells me she's not a sorceress.

[OrzhvoPatriarch]

She has quite a few 5th level spells to be a sorceress with only 3/4 of her build devoted to sorcerer (I'm assuming Xykon is the only epic enemy in the group)

She's got Dominate Person, Mind Fog, and Teleport, which would require her to have 13 levels of sorcerer, which would require her to be a 9th level mystic theurge and (at least) a 17th level character. I suppose it's possible, but I think she's probably just a generalist wizard then. (We already had Sabine as a sorceress) Oh well...

level 17 strikes me as about right for a lieutenant to an epic lich, so I think you may be about right there. The Giant has stated he doesn't have actual characters made for anybody though, so nobody really has an actual class level.

Going off of the number of wights she has, she would have to be fairly high level. You can control twice your HD in undead (four times in a desecrated area, it is unlikely that the entire city is desecrated, though Xykon's tower might be) and a wight has 4HD. She has six wights here http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0513.html so that would mean at least level 12.

Of course, you can create more undead then you can command, as many as you have spell slots and bodies in fact. And it is possible, wights being intelligent undead, to bargain with them for service. She could also use her cleric ability to rebuke undead to get a few more under her full command.
I am also sure that across the various books there are items and feats that could raise that number higher, so I think I just shot down my own argument for those wights being a good measure for her level....

Getting back on topic, there are three valid answers to the the question "What are her banned schools" that I can see.
1. She is a sorceress, she doesn't have any
2. She is a wizard, but since it isn't important to the plot for her to have banned schools and Rich doesn't sit down and actually make the characters in dnd terms, she doesn't have any.
3. She is a wizard and she does have banned schools, but domain spells let her over come this. She still casts these spells using her arcane color because they are arcane spells, even if they are divine in origin. Because we can't figure out what her domain is, as she worships 12 gods and thus presumably could choice from a lot of them, we can't figure out which spell she cast from that and thus which school she is banned from.

That covers the Gordian Knot angle, the this is a webcomic interested in story and not Dnd rules angle, and the Dnd rules lawyering angle.Does anyone see something I missed?


Does anyone see something I missed?

Edit: Though as Gift Jeraff points out above me, since she did cast a Quicken spell, by the rules of 3.5 dnd she can not be a sorceress. (I personally house ruled that they can, but that has nothing to do with this discussion).

[NeoSeraphi]

I suppose you're right. I guess, barring the Giant simply stepping in and explaining, we have too little information to go on to get a definite answer. Oh well, the discussion itself was pretty fun.

[factotum]

Going off of the number of wights she has, she would have to be fairly high level. You can control twice your HD in undead (four times in a desecrated area, it is unlikely that the entire city is desecrated, though Xykon's tower might be) and a wight has 4HD.

Those limits don't seem to exist in the Stickverse. In strip #300 Redcloak mentions that "the ghoul horde has swelled by 315 members", which is one heck of a lot of undead for him and Xykon to create and control between them!

[Ekul]

Xykon can have an epic feat that allows him to command ten times his HD in undead, so he could actually command over 120 ghouls.

...doesn't really address the issue though.

[faustin]

So she can use Transmutation, Conjuration, Enchantment and Illusion, unless she can get some from being a cleric. Therefore, if these are all part of the wizard spell list, then she cannot cast Abjuration nor Divination.

She can use Divination. She tried to locate O-Chul after he escaped with Vaarsuvius, but she failed because the Cloister spell effect, as she told to MiD.

She is a sorceress, she doesn't have any

She prepared attack rolled orb spells before her fight against Haley to bypass her Reflex saves, so she is a wizard

[Dr.Epic]

Tsukiko is a necromancer mystic theurge. By definition of the way OotS works, that most likely means she's a specialist wizard/cleric. (Though she could just be another Miko who doesn't actually abide by the name of class identity thing)

Unlikely: samurai is a real world thing. I've never heard of any class of people or profession in the real world that went by "mystic theurge." (though that just may be my ignorance) I mean, assassin, sure it's a PrC, but one could call themselves that in the comic and while I would connect them to the class, it could also just mean they kill people for some gain. Mystic theurge, I'm not sure what else she could mean aside from the PrC.

[Morquard]

I've read once that wizards specialising in Necromancy are more the "deal with undead" specialists, while clerics focusing on that part are more the "create and control them" types. Don't ask me why, i never played a necromancer.

So it would make sense if she used her cleric spells for most of her undead stuff, and the wizard side for all the other things she needs. That doesn't mean she won't use necromancy wizard spells of course, but she might not have specialised in that school.
Though I admit, it would be perfectly in character for her to do so.

[NeoSeraphi]

Unlikely: samurai is a real world thing. I've never heard of any class of people or profession in the real world that went by "mystic theurge." (though that just may be my ignorance) I mean, assassin, sure it's a PrC, but one could call themselves that in the comic and while I would connect them to the class, it could also just mean they kill people for some gain. Mystic theurge, I'm not sure what else she could mean aside from the PrC.

I meant "necromancer" in this situation, not "mystic theurge". As in, she could be a generalist wizard who just called herself a necromancer instead of a specialist necromancer

[KillianHawkeye]

I would imagine that Tsukiko specialized just to get even more spells per day.

[Tebryn]

She's probably a general wizard. I don't know where the assumption came that all wizards or named wizards we've seen (and we've seen...how many wizards exactly in the comics that are even partially relevant? Four?) are specialists. The only one we know for certain is a specialist is V...and no one calls her an Invoker. Z is a wizard but we don't know, and just because Tsu is a "Necromancer" doesn't mean she's a specialist wizard. You don't -have- to be after all.

[HappyBlanket]

She's probably a general wizard. I don't know where the assumption came that all wizards or named wizards we've seen (and we've seen...how many wizards exactly in the comics that are even partially relevant? Four?) are specialists. The only one we know for certain is a specialist is V...and no one calls her an Invoker. Z is a wizard but we don't know, and just because Tsu is a "Necromancer" doesn't mean she's a specialist wizard. You don't -have- to be after all.

From a metagame perspective, Generalist isn't a very common option. Most players make Specialists, so the concept of a Generalist Wizard is practically an ACF to some.