[Dreamscarred Press] New Playtest: the Voyager, a psionic skirmisher!

[Deimosaur]

Oh, a new page. Another link for convenience's sake.

Hm, a few things.

The crossfire as-written was designed to be able to function with other archetypes. After writing that fluff and seeing your expectations though...I'll think about it. I have some ideas I want to try.

For now, I'd like to see how the 'base' package functions (in combination with other archetypes or not).

Yea, as to the crossfire archetype. No thank you, you give up a lot for very little. Still unsure about timekeeper but giving up momentum hurts.

I may be missing something, but as I'm reading it the Crossfire is given up 10-15' of movement, the ability to aid herself, 1 martial weapon proficiency, and shield proficiency for prof. with all firearms, a gun, gunsmithing, and the ability to load or fix his firearm for free.

Minor correction: The crossfire isn't giving up her ability to aid another herself. She trades out helping hand, which normally allows a voyager to interact with objects on her parallel action.

Timekeeper is pretty interesting though, turning the class into much more of a support role. I question what it can do on its turn without Momentum however, I guess stick to focusing on manifesting powers a lot more? It doesn't really have the PP for that since it has the same base amount as Psychic Warrior, so maybe it should get extra PP to handle all the extra manifesting it wants to do. At the same time, Bottled Moment really doesn't want you chain manifest powers because of the limiter it has until level 17, which puts a massive damper on that plan, so maybe I'm looking at it all wrong for what a Timekeeper is supposed to be actively doing in a fight.

Noted, I'll think about it.

[Duskwolf]

Ahh I see my mistake, I read the archetype as giving up all your parallel actions for a more pricey quick clear. Okay, better, might be fun to make it compatible with doomsayer which I think it is not. Previous poster made a good point, giving more pp and either a full 9 progression( limited) or a compressed progression ala summoner would be fantastic. I am very much a fan of the class and working at the best ways to include maneuvers. I would like to know how the weapon attack part of fast forward ( and speeding strike) is defined , can I use a sneak attack? A strike? A psionic power such as energy shard with power channeler? Would it apply to just one target of speeding strike or all? I know, it should not need any help, it plays well on it's own but I am fan of multi classing and similar mayhem, or as my friend calls it, silliness.

[Mezzaluna]

Minor correction: The crossfire isn't giving up her ability to aid another herself. She trades out helping hand, which normally allows a voyager to interact with objects on her parallel action.

I'd actually prefer if they gave up the Aid Another and kept their Quantum Mage Hand.
When they're hitting touch AC from range they don't need that Aid Another in combat, while remote object interaction is a fun utility trick that I'd appreciate having out of fights.

[Prime32]

Agreed with that. Also, they should have a class feature called "Bullet Time"; I don't care what it does.

It would be nice to get extra support for running between sources of cover. Maybe Shot on the Run, and/or an ability that lets you retain the benefit of cover as long as you had cover at the start of your turn?

Clustered Shots might be a good fit for videogame-style "slow time for a moment so you can shoot precisely a bunch of times".

Another way to increase compatibility with other archetypes would be by granting some of these abilities through powers. E.g. "At 4th level a crossfire adds kinetic reload to her powers known. This replaces the power normally learned at 4th level."

Otherwise, you could just go with a multiclass feat, something like:

Crossfire (Grit, Psionic)
Prerequisites: Grit and Parallel Action class features
Benefit: On your parallel turn, you may either reduce the action required for your next deed from 1 full-round action to 1 standard action, or perform the Quick Clear or Utility Shot deeds if you have them. Whenever you perform the Gunslinger's Dodge deed you also gain momentum equal to half your voyager level (minimum 1).

[DiskElemental]

I'd actually been trying my hand at making a gun using archetype for Voyager, but since it looks like there's an official one, I suppose I'll stop working on it.

For anyone interested, here's the link: pastebin.com/PTw9Jg6E (Have to open it manually because GitP is asinine and won't allow links)

[Caeserion]

Finally a class that will work with the Elocator! I've one built as a Voyager5/Elocator7 that has a movement of 90ft. The problem I have is the momentum stopping with class level. I know changing it to character level will make the class a super dip class. How about a feat that will allow Elocator's level to stack with Voyager's level for determining how much momentum you can have at a given time?

[Deimosaur]

So, the crossfire's been updated.

This is a...rather experimental option, at least for me.

In addition to the above adjustments, a voyager with the crossfire archetype may select from any of the following alternate class features by altering or exchanging them with the listed voyager base class feature. For example, a voyager with the crossfire archetype may take kinetic snipe, losing kinetic wave.
A crossfire can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the base voyager class as those altered or exchanged by the crossfire archetype.

The crossfire has the choice of upping her arsenal of gun-related parallel actions and class abilities. She can take none, some, or all of the additional options listed here. This leaves the possibility of a crossfire timekeeper, a 'crossfire-lite' that values mobility and keeps some more of the base voyager abilities, or a full-on crossfire.

[Andras Zodon]

Crossfire is decently integrated, and while I would certainly take it if I wanted to go-fast with guns, I'm afraid to say it doesn't seem interesting enough to make me want to play a gofastgunner just to try it. Timekeeper on the other hand is quite interesting! Seems like more of a support role than the glass cannon damage dealer archetype the Voyager normally embodies. Hard to say how it works in practice, but potentially very well if used judiciously.

[Air0r]

So, the crossfire's been updated.

This is a...rather experimental option, at least for me.


The crossfire has the choice of upping her arsenal of gun-related parallel actions and class abilities. She can take none, some, or all of the additional options listed here. This leaves the possibility of a crossfire doomsayer or timekeeper, a 'crossfire-lite' that values mobility and keeps some more of the base voyager abilities, or a full-on crossfire.

I like this. also, I second the elocater thing.

[OBoyd]

I like the Elocater from a flavor standpoint, but even with that feat I think you give up to much.

Psionic Body is ridiculous with this class. Eight free Psionic feats is bad enough, but with a human or psionic race you could potentially have 19! 38 extra HP would put the Voyager just 6 points less than a fighter over 20 levels.

[Andras Zodon]

I like the Elocater from a flavor standpoint, but even with that feat I think you give up to much.

Psionic Body is ridiculous with this class. Eight free Psionic feats is bad enough, but with a human or psionic race you could potentially have 19! 38 extra HP would put the Voyager just 6 points less than a fighter over 20 levels.

Hey man, I really think you're overblowing it with this HP thing, and the feats too. I'm pretty sure Voyager's in a pretty decent place currently.

[OBoyd]

That could well be the case. If it's a deliberate design choice, I am okay with it. It seems odd to me that the three build paths for a Mobility based class would be Combat Maneuvers, Ranged Cbt. and Tank...

I'd rather they got Power Attack, Weapon Finesse or both as options for the free feat. My initial impression (along with a couple of other posters) was that they were a bit squishy. I no longer see them that way. I'd personally rather see them as Tactician or Summoner level casters (without the free Expanded Knowledges), but am eager to try one either way.

[EarthSeraphEdna]

The timekeeper is odd due to being the only character in the entire game that can earn extra information on Knowledge in general against creatures and objects. Should this mechanic not be handled another way?

[Duskwolf]

Crossfire looks great and I love the flex options. The only thing I could think to add at this moment is having rapid reload part of firearm assistance, maybe while focused? Oh and yes please on momentum based on character level, would make my dream voyager with manuvers so much the better. I am currently dming but next pathfinder game I play I would only play a voyager. Beautifully done, even if still a playtest.

[Domar]

Some momentum advancement for multiclassing would be nice. Perhaps Voyager level plus half non Voyager levels to a max of twice your Voyager level. Or a sidebar that says Path of the Warrior from the Awakened Blade can advance momentum and add defensive precognition and offensive precognition to the power list.

[Dr_Dinosaur]

I love Crossfire as a Qinngong-style archetype and think Psionic Body is a really clever way of beefing the class up despite its low HD. Unfortunately, I'm stuck DM-ing so no chance of playtesting.

[Deimosaur]

We've revised Essential Training (now named Parallel Training, and granting more feats at additional levels). Instead of feats aimed at mechanical boosts, it now has a more varied selection of niche options. As there are now more instances of bonus feats throughout the class, Up The Walls has been taken off of Accelerate and added to this list.

Overall, the lower Hit Die of the class is meant to make them slightly squishier (admittedly by only 2 hit points at first level and 1 hit point on average per level after that), with strong non-hit point defensive abilities. We found that Psionic Body being given for free was overly centralizing and counter to the design goals of the class. Characters who want to be more durable can still take the feat normally (repeatedly, even), but it's no longer on the bonus feat list.

This list is not intended to include direct improvements in numbers, or to enable standard builds. Rather, these are intended feat options that would normally not be 100% optimal to take, but are enjoyable to play around and cause a voyager to play in a more unique manner. Pursuing Psionic Body for durability, Precise Shot for ranged builds, etc, can be done with the feats a character gains normally.

Expect some archetypes to fiddle with this list as well.

Also, the voyager's power list has been slightly updated.

Some momentum advancement for multiclassing would be nice. Perhaps Voyager level plus half non Voyager levels to a max of twice your Voyager level. Or a sidebar that says Path of the Warrior from the Awakened Blade can advance momentum and add defensive precognition and offensive precognition to the power list.

Similar to the wilder and other psionic classes, the following text has been added to the playtest document:

Voyagers and Prestige Classes
Prestige classes that advance manifesting can advance voyager momentum. At each level where a class would progress a voyager's manifester level by one, treat her as if she had gained a class level for the purposes of the maximum damage dice and momentum points of her momentum class feature. She does not gain any other benefits she may have gained from an increased level (such as branching paths, speed increases, or parallel actions).

[Duskwolf]

Yea could perhaps get precise shot back. Getting it without the pbs prerequisite was really helpful. Not to sound ungrateful but... It went a long way to helping getting to a good firearm build a bit faster.

[Andras Zodon]

At any time when you need to maintain psionic focus such an ability, you can use this psionic focus instead.

I think you forgot a "with" here?

[EarthSeraphEdna]

Focused Swiftness seems like a low-cost ticket into "while you are psionically focused" abilities, when Psicrystal Containment and Deep Focus take more of an investment.

Did I miss something, or is a voyager still encouraged to move back and forth between two squares and then fire a bow? Well, with the exception of orc-subtyped voyagers, who can cheese out charge damage.

[Deimosaur]

Very parallel action-heavy update, with a side order of archetypes.
Parallel Actions:

• To avoid rather awkward interactions with certain traits and feats, accomplished accomplice now scales on its own and ignores normal bonuses gained from Aid Another.

• Combo Strike now features a whitelist of combat maneuvers usable with an attack.

• Fast-forward has been reworked, allowing team play along with its initial focus on movement.

• Rewind now gives a bonus to AC + saves instead of miss chance.

• Pause has has rules and wording consistent with the new fast-forward.

• Foreshadow now works on additional types of movement that normally necessitate moving in straight lines.

Archetypes:

• The crossfire can opt into Gunfire Training, which replaces Parallel Training.

• The timekeeper gains Temporal Manifesting instead of Voyager Knowledge, better enabling a manifesting-centric playstyle. Instead of gaining bonus powers from timekeeper knowledge, the timekeeper simply adds those extra powers to the list of powers he can normally learn.

[OBoyd]

That could well be the case. If it's a deliberate design choice, I am okay with it. It seems odd to me that the three build paths for a Mobility based class would be Combat Maneuvers, Ranged Cbt. and Tank...

I'd rather they got Power Attack, Weapon Finesse or both as options for the free feat. My initial impression (along with a couple of other posters) was that they were a bit squishy. I no longer see them that way. I'd personally rather see them as Tactician or Summoner level casters (without the free Expanded Knowledges), but am eager to try one either way.

I love this round of updates. This is really looking like a solid class with some several very interesting possible builds.

[Ikiry0]

It seems rather overturned on both offence and defence, especially at pre-6 levels (When no one has iterative attacks).

It's rather trivial for them to have 27 AC at level 1 (Getting 2 stats AND light armour AND shields) as well as a higher attack bonus than a full BAB class (With the +2 on top of the +2 from charging and +1d6 damage a level meaning that it hits ungodly hard until you start getting full attacks with actual secondary attacks.). If you want it to have 2x stat to AC you might want to remove the ability to actually wear armour, especially when that bonus is a Dodge bonus as they stack with literally everything.

It seems, as a whole, to not really be a class with any weaknesses. It's low HP is counteracted by the fact that you can teleport away from any effect in the game for a hefty bonus to AC and all saves (Rewind) and doing so will likely put you out of range of any melee character's follow up attacks (Or any ranged attacker if the battlefield has anywhere to get full cover and leave your invisible teleport beacons).

I really like the idea of the class but it feels like it could really do with a toning down.

[Deimosaur]

Okay, more updates dropping. The goal here is to cut the extraneous power for an individual voyager, and to make choices more meaningful while character building.

• Momentum: While a voyager has momentum, she gains scaling defenses (AC and Reflex) based on how much she has (capped at her Intelligence modifier). This replaces the dodge bonus she gained from simply gaining momentum in a round.

• The Amplified Momentum feat can now be used to gain this dodge bonus (which stacks with the bonus from momentum, up to the normal cap + 2).

• Momentum now resets at the start of her turn instead of the start of her parallel action's turn, and instead of losing gathered momentum entirely, the voyager loses half of their momentum at the beginning of each of her turns.

This gives the voyager a reason to track momentum outside of her offense. Rather than simply fulfilling a requirement (move 10 feet), she has some incentive to gain momentum after her attack (or to not spend her momentum on attacks every round, if she is unable to gain any afterwards) in order to keep some defenses. This makes moving -> attacking -> moving more appealing, if she have the appropriate feats or abilities to do so. The momentum she gains after her attack essentially becomes her defense.

• Parallel Actions: A voyager now learns one of the parallel actions at each listed level. A feat allows her to gain access to the others.

• Branched Paths: Now allows the voyager to pick up some of the other parallel actions gained at 3rd level, and then to gain a branched path ability of a parallel action they already know.

• Backtrack is now a feat that allows you to gain a parallel action from a listed level beneath your class level.

• Road Less Traveled has been added, as a feat with Backtrack's old functionality.

The burden of knowledge for a voyager PC was - and still is, somewhat - rather high. There is just so much a specific voyager can do without investing much into it, and cutting that up so players can focus on the actions that interest them is a step to making the class manageable. If they want more parallel actions of a given level, they can invest feats into gaining them.

And as a followup to the last mass parallel action update and this one, many parallel actions have been adjusted accordingly:

• All voyaers gain the helping hand parallel action at 1st level.

• The ranges of several parallel actions has gone down to adjacent - however, the voyager can treat the space her afterimage occupies as a vector for her parallel actions.

• Afterimage: The voyager gains a 3rd level ability called afterimage, taking some of the functionality of rewind and moving it to the main class.

• The "on-target" cooldowns on fast-forward and pause have been removed. Also, several other parallel actions can now be used to help allies as well as herself.

• The rewind ability has been somewhat reworked, as afterimage has been made a baseline ability.

• Pause can now affect the voyager and a creature adjacent to her, and causes the voyager to retain her momentum for her next round.

The afterimage ability at 3rd level helps to effectively extend the reach of parallel actions. This limit helped me feel more comfortable with change down below. Each individual action can be somewhat more versatile, rather than the rather odd and finicky 'cooldown cycling' potential the voyager had before.

The doomsayer is the archetype most affected by these changes and has received changes to their parallel actions, similar to the voyager's.

[Techbaron]

In this post, I'll give my feedback on the update to Voyager and the Voyager overall, going over each part in turn.

Momentum: The changing of momentum does incentivize "move, attack, move" as the optimal way for Voyagers to both push out their damage and retain their defenses. Because of this change, the Fast Forward parallel action becomes the best choice for a Voyager to use from level 3 onwards, aside from very specific situations, as it allows a Voyager to accomplish this "move, attack, move" easily. Rewind, while allowing the Voyager to move further, only activates on the Parallel Action 'turn' and so leaves the Voyager without Momentum to boost their defenses against any opponents' attacks between their and the Parallel Action's initiative. Pause, as it allows someone to maintain momentum into their next turn, incentivizes "attack, move; next turn: attack, move; repeat" which is, in my opinion, slightly more complicated, but is likely better than Rewind.

Speaking to the broader perspective, the defenses that Momentum grants cap out at level 2, for most characters, (with their Int mod being at +4), with the exception of if their Int is temporarily boosted, most likely with Fox's Cunning. For most Voyagers, moving 20 feet will max out the defenses granted by Momentum, which reinforces Fast-Forward as the best option for most Voyagers, whether Melee or Ranged. Ways to boost Int such as Fox's Cunning or a Headband conveniently improve Fast-Forward's bonus as well, keeping that parallel action extremely useful.

Afterimage: I think bringing it out of the parallel actions was a good idea. Many parallel actions don't make use of it, however. I am still working out my thoughts on it.

Kinetic Wave: This ability seems fine. However, the limitation of having to expend focus, means that for many Voyagers, this is only something that would be used once in a combat. Dealing momentum damage to multiple targets can be strong, but around 9th level is where Voyagers will start having trouble maxing out their Momentum.

Parallel Actions

1st Level Parallel Actions: Accomplished Accomplice and Assisted Escape seem like the strongest options at this level. Accomplished Accomplice for its potential to further increase a Voyager's AC or attack bonus, and Assisted Escape for its maintenance of Momentum between rounds. Assisted Escape becomes especially useful at later levels for a Voyager, when capping out Momentum will tend to require the spending of several power points to boost movement speed. Combo Strike is, of course, useful, but does not aid in direct survival like the other two.

3rd Level Parallel Actions: As stated above, I believe Fast-Forward to be the clear winner at this level, with Pause and Rewind after it. Rewind I believe to be better at the lower levels of Voyager, while Pause is better at the later levels as Momentum becomes more difficult/expensive to cap out each round.


(I'll add more to this post later.)

[Domar]

Sanctity of Speed has repeated text.

Creatures are allowed a Reflex save to for half damage. Creatures within this area can make a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the voyager’s class level + the voyager’s Intelligence modifier) to take half damage.

[Deimosaur]

Sanctity of Speed has repeated text.

Creatures are allowed a Reflex save to for half damage. Creatures within this area can make a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the voyager’s class level + the voyager’s Intelligence modifier) to take half damage.

Oops. Fixed.

Update to momentum has been added to my post above.

[MilleniaAntares]

Does the afterimage made by the Bookmark feat stay on a moving vehicle (ship, spaceship, airship, landship), or does it stay with the position in the ocean/air/land?

[Galacktic]

A question myself! Does being staggered (IE from some of the Doomsayer's parallel actions) does that influence their parallel actions at all, or just their normal ones?

[Deimosaur]

Does the afterimage made by the Bookmark feat stay on a moving vehicle (ship, spaceship, airship, landship), or does it stay with the position in the ocean/air/land?

I would say no, but really any answer leads to very awkward conclusions if further explored. Rather similar to discussions of what happens if you cast an area spell with a duration on a moving object.

A question myself! Does being staggered (IE from some of the Doomsayer's parallel actions) does that influence their parallel actions at all, or just their normal ones?

Being staggered does not hinder parallel actions in the slightest.

Regarding the doomsayer: A new parallel action has been added to replace assisted escape. The doomsayer now can choose a unique replacement for all of the level 1 parallel actions (besides helping hand).