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2009-09-22, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
I suppose, but I plan to make this stuff actually applicable.
I'd say you're too concerned with minutiae, and that the more detailed a world you build at the beginning, the easier it is to **** up later.
Besides, I do think that much of the stuff we've been focusing on wasn't just worthless minutiae, since we're going to have to answer several questions later:
Q: What kind of robots do we have? Answer: PLANTs, BTSs, HERALDs
Q: How do they move around? Answer: Primary + Secondary Pilots, Pilots + Prophets
Q: Fuel source? Answer: Plasm
Q: How do they fight? Answer: projectile weapons, energy weapons, missiles
Q: How do shields work? Answer: DAPS
Q: How will our super-robot style superweapons work? Answer: see superweapons list
Q: How do our robots transform? Answer: PLANT system
And lots of others. We are going in detail here, true, but we're also spending time working on details that will serve us later.
Laying out technical details also gives ups more plot and setting tools to work with.
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2009-09-22, 01:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Anyhow, HERALDs...
OOS Uruloth-Class Somnior Dirus ("Dreadful Dreamer"--whoever gets the reference gets a cookie)
Pilot: Admiral Roag Septiumus of the 7th Fleet
Height: 500 meters (for reference, the current US Navy's Enterprise Aircraft Carrier, the largest naval ship in history, is 342 meters long--the Empire State Building in New York is 443 meters tall)
Armament:
1 Gladius-class Particle-Emitter Close-quarters-combat Chainsaw Armament (PECCA)--sword-like weapon covered in a high-energy particle field, capable of disrupting shields long enough for the chainsaw blades underneath to grind and cut away at armor.
1 Scutum-class Defensive Add-On (DAO)--shield-like device attached to the HERALD's arm. Thicker than starship hulls, it holds up very well against even medium projectile bombardments, and also has a DAPS system. With this, the pilot is given an extra degree of protection against Imperial heavy weapons. DAOs also have an extra weapon attached to it--Somnior Dirus' DAO uses a heavy plasma cannon to punch through DAPSs.
As Roag is supremely confident in his piloting skills (for good reason), the rest of his weapons are just two dozen point defense light railguns (and the only reason they exist is so that he can say, "Intensify forward firepower!").
A spot of good news: after we finish Ila's and Han's robots, we can move on to something more interesting, like setting and plot.
Also, we'll need a few details about personal BTSs from the 5 main characters (Furi, Siela, Kamia, Kara, and Ritt), and I'm wondering if their respective forum members could give me some ideas. Imagine your dream vehicle, and then give it two legs. That's your BTS.
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2009-09-22, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
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- New Jersey
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Being that I just got out of an ODST session, I would humbly request that my mech be referred to as "Pillar of Autumn".
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2009-09-22, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Eh...
1) "Pillar of Autumn" is a little too blatant a copy to fly, I think.
2) I was hoping to make HERALD names be references to Lovecraftian stuff since, well, they're in service to what are essentially Elder Evils.
the 2nd point is simply my own opinion, but Pillar of Autumn is too much from Halo to work...sorry.
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2009-09-22, 05:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2007
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Ah well. Your work, I suppose. But something along those lines..."Dreadful Dreamer" doesn't sound particularly good. "Dreadful something" would be cool, but...eh. It's all taste, anyways.
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2009-09-22, 05:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Uhh... It turns out that I meant to say "DEAD Dreamer", not "Dread(ful) Dreamer". My online Latin dictionary is down at the moment, so brb on this...
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2009-09-22, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2005
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- Back in the USSR
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
I think I'll actually be helpful and post descriptive stuff for Neridia.
Appearance:
In her late 20's or early 30's. Tall and fairly curvy woman, though not to the degree of Terra or Kara. Blue eyes with thin-framed glasses, long, wavy blue hair*, usually tied in a ponytail and under a captain's hat when on duty. Uniform is mainly white, knockoff of a modern admiral's uniform but closely tailored and with a miniskirt and knee boots because This Is Anime TM.
*was going to make this pink to be based on my avatar, but then I'd look too much like Terra.
I have a question about setting backstory before I post further stuff. How long has Plasm-based gestalt control and the PLANT system been around, and what were early, experimental PLANTs like? How many other PLANT-based fleets are around on the good guy side besides the Endless Eighth?
EDIT: and the dead dreamer is of course Cthulhu. Too easy.Last edited by Nerd-o-rama; 2009-09-22 at 07:24 PM.
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2009-09-22, 07:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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- Worldville, Earthplace
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
A well-placed bullet can stop anybody with an oversized sword.
In real life that is.
Everywhere else, you're screwed.
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2009-09-22, 10:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Sweet!
I have a question about setting backstory before I post further stuff. How long has Plasm-based gestalt control and the PLANT system been around, and what were early, experimental PLANTs like? How many other PLANT-based fleets are around on the good guy side besides the Endless Eighth?
At the moment, I'm envisioning the current Plasm-based PLANT system as being thoroughly tested, but still new: the prototypes and early tests have all been completed, and almost all of the kinks have been worked out...but Furi and his buddies are the first generation pilots. They've had plenty of virtual reality training, but no real combat experience. (Or they could all be hardened veterans, I'm not sure. The whole "child soldiers" angle, while cliche, does add a tone of GRIMDARK that can be exploited by the later routes.) Thus, plenty of time for a young teenaged Neridia to have been a test pilot (maybe one of the later ones?), then about 10-15 years later be the highest ranking officer in the 8th Fleet.
EDIT: and the dead dreamer is of course Cthulhu. Too easy.
Alright. Do you want him to be a renegade Imperial or cultist scientist? Neither?
I did originally consider a Spider Mech, but if it's way too unfitting then a regular one would be just fine I guess.Last edited by 13_CBS; 2009-09-22 at 10:39 PM.
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2009-09-22, 11:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
We could still go with "Pillar of Autumn" if you'd like, but I think I'll need the opinions of the others first. I wouldn't mind at all making Halo references...it's just that "Pillar of Autumn" might be a little too obvious, like calling one or more of the PLANTs a "Gundam" or something.
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2009-09-22, 11:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
I guess he'll be more of a Renegade. He'll likely be more self-interested but he'll attach himself to any faction. He's more of the For Science type and probably cares even less of the Cults.
As I noted, Han's mech (I'm considering calling it The Zweibel) would probably be AI Controlled to a certain extent. The AI has a personality of it's own, acting more cheerful than it's creator (sorta like the GIR to Han's Zim). It controls mostly movement while the pilot focuses on weaponry.
I've also had a bit of an idea that Han has built a bit of a robotic shell for the AI to walk around with when they're not in the Mech itself.A well-placed bullet can stop anybody with an oversized sword.
In real life that is.
Everywhere else, you're screwed.
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2009-09-23, 12:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Interesting...any ideas on where the AI and this unique system of mecha control came from? Did he come up with most/all of it himself, or did he take it from someone else? Another origin?
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2009-09-23, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
He made it himself partly out of the fact that he himself is kinda like The Lelouch in that by himself he's not a spectacular pilot. Two, he wants to try his hand at creating something non-destructive.
As for the Spider design... Well, he wanted to try his hand at something different than others since he finds the standard design to be somewhat dull.A well-placed bullet can stop anybody with an oversized sword.
In real life that is.
Everywhere else, you're screwed.
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2009-09-23, 10:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
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- Japan
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Hi all!
I'm just dropping in to say I'm impressed with the endeavor and the work
I'll keep this thread bookmarkedKasanip's Sketchbook 2 Thread
It is difficult to speak English, please excuse mistakes kindly m(_ _)m
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2009-09-23, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Remember how I was wishing for the peace of oblivion a minute ago?
Yeah. That hasn't exactly changed with more knowledge of the situation. -Security Chief Victor Jones, formerly of the UESC Marathon.
X-Com avatar by BRC. He's good folks.
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2009-09-23, 10:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Bit too casual for my tastes. Roag is a dude with a very inflated opinion of himself, and I would suspect that'd manifest by his ridiculously epic naming scheme. Lord of Rapture, got any good names from Battlefleet Gothic or something?
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2009-09-23, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2008
Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Remember how I was wishing for the peace of oblivion a minute ago?
Yeah. That hasn't exactly changed with more knowledge of the situation. -Security Chief Victor Jones, formerly of the UESC Marathon.
X-Com avatar by BRC. He's good folks.
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2009-09-23, 12:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Back in the USSR
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
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2009-09-23, 11:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
New mech, this one's short since I'm utterly utterly spent from college and I need to get to sleep really soon. Assuming that we're switching from the Latin Lovecraftian reference names to Halo-ish ones. Again, feel free to object or agree.
After mulling over Roag's HERALD, I thought that it might fit Roag's personality if he gets a Lightning Bruiser instead, so I'm going to reduce his HERALD's size (for maneuverability) and switch his DAO for something else (cuz shields are for wimps). Thus, a repost of Roag's HERALD:
OOS Uruloth-Class _______ (name pending)
Pilot: Admiral Roag Septiumus of the 7th Fleet
Height: 358 meters (for reference, the current US Navy's Enterprise Aircraft Carrier, the largest naval ship in history, is 342 meters long--the Empire State Building in New York is 443 meters tall)
Armament:
1 RApid Fire Energy Rotary Cannon (RAFERC): arm mounted rotary cannon (that is, gatling gun) designed to deliver a storm of plasma bolts in an instant. A prototype weapon, its primary purpose is to scatter powerful blasts of plasma over a wide area--the plasma bolts are powerful enough so that they can melt and destroy DAPS systems, but doing so over an even wider area to avoid missing DAPS emitters while also providing a level of energy economy. The spray of plasma also has a demoralizing affect on rookie BTS pilots.
1 Spatha-class Particle-Emitter Close-quarters-combat Rotary-saw Armament (PECRA): arm mounted rotary saw, installed horizontally just above the HERALD's "knuckles" (think "chainfist" from WH40k). Like the Gladius-Class PECCA, the Spatha-Class PECRA's blades are covered in an energy field in order to penetrate DAPSs. In addition, above the rotary blade are two Apostate-Class Medium Coilguns for dealing extra damage against unshielded hulls.
As Roag is supremely confident in his piloting skills (for good reason), the rest of his weapons are just two dozen point defense light railguns (and the only reason they exist is so that he can say, "Intensify forward firepower!").
OOS Kxathkluth-Class HERALD: Voiceless Heirophant
Primary Pilot: Commander Illa Sanjuni, 7th Fleet
Height: 540 meters
Armament:
1 Gladius-class Particle-Emitter Close-quarters-combat Chainsaw Armament (PECCA)--sword-like weapon covered in a high-energy particle field, capable of disrupting shields long enough for the chainsaw blades underneath to slice through even thick armor.
1 Scutum-class Defensive Add-On (DAO)--shield-like device attached to the HERALD's arm. Thicker than starship hulls, it holds up very well against even medium projectile bombardments, and also has a DAPS system. With this, the pilot is given an extra degree of protection against Imperial heavy weapons. DAOs also have an extra weapon attached to it--the DAO uses a heavy plasma cannon to punch through DAPSs.
Illa is a more conservative and cautious HERALD pilot than Roag. She is also unique among HERALD pilots in that she does not use a Prophet to interface with her machine, only reflex and skill honed on years and years of life-or-death combat.
I'll have to post Han's mech tomorrow, I think...and then it's on to more exciting stuff! Like setting and planning (NOT writing: that will come last) the routes.Last edited by 13_CBS; 2009-09-24 at 11:26 AM.
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2009-09-24, 03:40 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- Eye of Terror
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Kyonko avatar by Elder Tsofu. Revere them.
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JAM Project + Okkusenman = PURE UNDILUTED AWESOME
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2009-09-24, 06:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Hmmm... I thought a guy in Roag's position would have one of the largest mechs, larger even than a PLANT. With this (or possibly this) as its theme music. Because no matter how skilled you are, the boss needs to have an entirely overkill mech. For instance, the villainous army of the Divine Crusaders in SRW was mostly composed of weaker mechs than the good guys' standard units... because they spent 40% of their budget on this.
Also, for Ila's I'm having trouble reconciling Lady of War with chainsaws. Are both sides using the same melee weapon technology? If one side uses weapons which are less "elegant" it could show how she doesn't quite fit in.
An idea: the "Prophets" for the HERALDs are genetically engineered children, somewhere between the Precogs from Minority Report and Rei Ayanami. Before you said Ila didn't have one I considered having her Heel Face Turn partly motivated by a motherly attitude towards her Prophet.Last edited by Prime32; 2009-09-24 at 06:23 AM.
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2009-09-24, 07:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Go with Valsion.
No, I'm not saying this because Arrow of Destiny gets old after the 11th boss in Alpha Gaiden with it as a theme.Last edited by Nerd-o-rama; 2009-09-24 at 07:44 AM.
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2009-09-24, 09:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
So Neridia is Kati with blue hair, Sumeragi's body and Murrue's uniform? Certainly not complaining there.
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2009-09-24, 10:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2005
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Was basing the uniform just as much on Lefina from SRW. I don't believe Murrue typically wears a hat. And Sumeragi's body's a little more outlandish than I'd like; I was thinking more of Misato.
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2009-09-24, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Hrm...that's true. I guess we have 2 different interpretations on Roag's character: egotistical and immensely skilled, so he takes the fast, zippy HERALD so that he can Show People His MovesTM--or egotistical and desirous of all the best stuff, so he gets a gargantuan thing to blow people into pieces.
I think I might leave it up to Rogue to decide the issue.
Also, for Ila's I'm having trouble reconciling Lady of War with chainsaws. Are both sides using the same melee weapon technology? If one side uses weapons which are less "elegant" it could show how she doesn't quite fit in.
An idea: the "Prophets" for the HERALDs are genetically engineered children, somewhere between the Precogs from Minority Report and Rei Ayanami. Before you said Ila didn't have one I considered having her Heel Face Turn partly motivated by a motherly attitude towards her Prophet.
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2009-09-24, 11:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Well, there's Vibroblades, "charged" weapons (some overlap between the two), and weapons that are actually made out of energy out there. As I pointed out, many Laser Blades are described as functioning like particle chainsaws anyway. Any of those would work. It would help to differentiate the sides if, say, HERALDs used charged chain-weapons and PLANTs used vibroblades or beam sabers.
Stuff I was thinking on Ila
SpoilerA Japanese-Korean woman (with some Vietnamese heritage in there somewhere), Ila San-Juni served/trained as a BTS pilot years ago, until disappearing on a mission in a remote region. Thought dead, in reality she was found by Roag, who inducted her into his organisation.
Ila quickly became one of his most talented pilots, something she privately attributes to her relationship with her Prophet. While most HERALD pilots treat their Prophets as little more than tools, Ila has taken an almost maternal role - she has given the young girl a name, and pays her visits in secret.
In addition to her HERALD she still has her old BTS, which has been heavily customised with HERALD technology. Given the name Schwarznadel, it can now transform into a hyperjump(?)-capable spacecraft. In combat it fights with a pair of beamswords (stored in its shoulders when not in use). It is also capable of charging its prow with energy while in ship mode for a devastating ram attack.
Ila has a strong sense of justice, so Septimus is careful to present her orders in a way which doesn't make them seem blatantly evil.
If Prophets are genetically engineered children they should have some distinguishing characteristics, if only because it's harder for Ila to smuggle out an albino with glowing eyes.
What about a compromise - having a small, agile HERALD hidden inside the large one?Last edited by Prime32; 2009-09-24 at 02:12 PM.
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2009-09-24, 02:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2009-09-24 at 02:42 PM.
"that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft
When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.
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2009-09-24, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Last edited by Nerd-o-rama; 2009-09-24 at 03:49 PM.
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2009-09-24, 09:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2006
Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Very interesting ideas...
Alright. So you'd prefer Illa to use a melee weapon based on Imperial design? I guess it could be, as you said, a subtle hint as to not only her true feelings but also her origins (she prefers the feel of Imperial BTS melee weapons, so she had one improved with cultist technology and modified to fit her HERALD...or something like that).
Stuff I was thinking on Ila
SpoilerA Japanese-Korean woman (with some Vietnamese heritage in there somewhere), Ila San-Juni served/trained as a BTS pilot years ago, until disappearing on a mission in a remote region. Thought dead, in reality she was found by Roag, who inducted her into his organisation.
Ila quickly became one of his most talented pilots, something she privately attributes to her relationship with her Prophet. While most HERALD pilots treat their Prophets as little more than tools, Ila has taken an almost maternal role - she has given the young girl a name, and pays her visits in secret.
In addition to her HERALD she still has her old BTS, which has been heavily customised with HERALD technology. Given the name Schwarznadel, it can now transform into a hyperjump(?)-capable spacecraft. In combat it fights with a pair of beamswords (stored in its shoulders when not in use). It is also capable of charging its prow with energy while in ship mode for a devastating ram attack.
Ila has a strong sense of justice, so Septimus is careful to present her orders in a way which doesn't make them seem blatantly evil.
If Prophets are genetically engineered children they should have some distinguishing characteristics, if only because it's harder for Ila to smuggle out an albino with glowing eyes.
As for the masks themselves, I'm thinking of anything from the blank, white mask of Sachiel to comedy/tragedy masks to the freakish ceremonial Korean masks. The mask could be a filter/data processing device that manages the flow of information from the HERALD to the Prophet's own brain.
What about a compromise - having a small, agile HERALD hidden inside the large one?
Before I hit the hay, I shall present the last major robot. After this, plus picking a name for Roag's HERALD, we can FINALLY get to laying down information about the setting and planning the routes.
The Bodega-Class AI Pilot Assisted multi-appendaged Tactical Suit (AIPATS) Tarentum1
1: According to my sources, the modern English word "tarantula" can trace its origins all the way back to the Roman city of Tarentum. These suckers were apparently fairly common in that city.
The AIPATS is essentially what the old PLANTs might have been had there not been the discovery of Plasm. In order to coordinate the complex movements of dozens of constituent vehicles and their pilots, the Imperial Navy at first considered linking up the Primary Pilot with a state-of-the-art Artificial Intelligence. The initial trials produced good results, as the machine intellects of these AI (called "Magi": "Magus" singular) were superhumanly efficient and precise, especially when programmed with the Alpha Protocol: do the utmost to destroy cultist targets in battle. But the level of intellect these cybernetic consciousnesses required became impractical at best and dangerous at worst. At times, the Magus would take over for a pilot if the pilot was judged to be too incompetent, or push the pilot to limits that humans could not withstand--or, the Magus would force the PLANT to perform maneuvers deemed unnecessarily ruthless. Programming limitations on the AI would simply cause the AI to remove them from its processes; lowering the AI's intellect to the point where it could not made it incapable of providing piloting resistance. Thus, when Plasm was found, the AI-Pilot method of maneuvering PLANTs was quickly cannibalized and streamlined into the neural matrix that every Imperial PLANT uses today.
During the switch from Magus to Plasm, however, not all Imperial researchers found cushy jobs when their research division was taken apart. Some of them picked up jobs unfit for their education and qualifications and lived out the rest of their lives in gloom and depression. Others, like Han Bodega, struck out for themselves. After having lost a high-level position in researching Plasm-based PLANTs due to office politics, Han took his vast knowledge of AI-Pilot based PLANTs, committed them to memory, and fled into the wilderness of space. He brought with him a prototype PLANT and the last Magus to have been produced, Balthasar, renaming it to Zweibel (apparently for sentimental reasons), and exiled himself to an uninhabited sector of the solar system, conducting his own research.
A few years later, he finished his masterpiece: the AIPATS. He did not suffer the same problem that earlier Pilots had with their Magi, since he overhauled Zweibel's core programming to be loyal to him and him only--removing the Alpha Protocol from Zweibel also helped. Zweibel manages the Tarentum's movements and helps with aiming weapons, while Han does the actual targeting and firing.
Han's AIPATS design focuses on two things:
1) Surprise, provided by a combination of high speed and a thermodynamics trick that hides his AIPATS's heat and radar signatures, among other things
2) Incredible firepower provided by 8 appendage-like weapons that make the Tarentum look something like an upright spider
It is only moderately armored and not particularly maneuverable, though its top speed is faster than just about anything either the Empire or the cultists can muster. It is designed to cloak, sneak in, deliver a surprise attack, do as much damage as possible, and then flee.
It is not entirely known why Bodega created such a machine. Despite the Tarentum's obviously immense combat capabilities, he rarely seems to use it on any particular target. As far as Imperial Intelligence can tell, he rambles about the galaxy in his unique vehicle, going wherever he feels like it. The only real pattern that can be interpreted from his travels is that he seems to be drawn towards scientific research centers. It appears that he enjoys stealing or sabotaging the research of others, perhaps to improve his AIPATS or for his own perverse pleasure.
Bodega-Class AIPATS Tarentum:
Size: 700 meters
Armament:
8 Spenthro Heavy MRPC
8 Araneae Heavy Laser Cannon
25 Latrodectus MRPC-PD
Superweapon:
Spider's Web: A highly powerful laser attack that sets the Tarentum's Araneae laser cannons into overload. Bodega can target up to 8 individual enemies with a continuous withering stream of lasers, or focus his fire on a smaller number of foes. For a particularly devastating effect, he can combine the power of his lasers by targeting one point in space with all of them, with the Tarentum's appendages arranged in a precise octagon--the result is pretty much a miniature version of the Death Star superlaser, rivaling the power of even the Eternal Silence.Last edited by 13_CBS; 2009-09-24 at 10:23 PM.
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2009-09-24, 09:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel
Cool.
I've always regretted that I've never been great at thinking of the technical stuff whenever I want to write a story (details such as explaining how the mechanics of such-and-such work). It's why I try to avoid writing Fanfiction by myself.
I've also sorta had an idea similar to the smaller Mech hidden within in which the AIPATS fires an incredibly small projectile that sends a remote-controlled Drone operated by the Zweibel AI into the enemy robot, from which it (or as it prefers, she) will try and maneuver the drone around the mech and muck up the systems from within.Last edited by hanzo66; 2009-09-24 at 09:52 PM.
A well-placed bullet can stop anybody with an oversized sword.
In real life that is.
Everywhere else, you're screwed.