ABR Discussion Thread XVI: Matters of Futures Imperfect

[DoomITP]

grrr...I'm gonna try and get it goin again..

[Threeshades]

But teh UNA is much more powerful than the Shades. They have Steam-powered weaponry, many varieties of landfish warriors (from tough Giant Salmon to quick Little Trout)and those from Blauport. Not to mention the Pikalites, who have excellent weaponry, and the elves and kobolds.

What part of near-unlimited power is so hard to understand?

[DoomITP]

dont worry 3shades I understand

[The Gremlin]

What part of near-unlimited power is so hard to understand?

What part of uber-technology and enormous numbers of well-organized troops don't YOU understand?
Not to mention, the Sovice adapt easily.

[memnarch]

either would screw up the world if unstopped. The shades however would screw it up much harder

Also let's not forget, he can't stop the UNA anyhow, since it would create a paradox to do so. If he prevents what he saw in the future, then he won't see it in the future and thus wouldnt have the knowledge he'd need to decide to prevent it.

Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.

I'd say that salmon came from a parallel universe.

Edit; Grem, that's assuming the shades give the sovice time to adapt.

[kpenguin]

either would screw up the world if unstopped. The shades however would screw it up much harder

Also let's not forget, he can't stop the UNA anyhow, since it would create a paradox to do so. If he prevents what he saw in the future, then he won't see it in the future and thus wouldnt have the knowledge he'd need to decide to prevent it.

Doesn't matter the degree of "screwing up". If Salmon's dark future is one in which the UNA took over, it implies that Lying and co. managed to stop the Shades in his absence or the UNA did. The Shades are a lesser potential threat because Salmon knows that they can/will be stopped.

As for the time paradox... well, we threw that line of thinking out the window the moment Salmon decided to set right what once went wrong.

As Maeter said, Ins has ingrained his allies in the politics of Avbaroy so the NSE can't, in good conscience, just remove them and leave. The NSE is more about diplomacy, trading, and pragmatism, the HSM is mainly religious fanatacism, to be brief.

If you really think about it, Maeter isn't attacking immediately because doing so would basically result in Iraq in modern times. Wierd that, didn't think of it when I was making it.

Wouldn't it be more pragmatic to remove the HSM? I mean, its not as if the political opinion of the people of Avbaroy matter much a galactic empire on the scale of NSE and it would be better for the planet in the long run.

[Threeshades]

What part of uber-technology and enormous numbers of well-organized troops don't YOU understand?
Not to mention, the Sovice adapt easily.

the numbers of troops can be as enourmous as they want and they may be so well organized they have a collective mind and their technology can be out of the impossible, but it wont help htem if they get sucked into oblivion in the blink of an eye.

The sovice also wont do much better once theyre demon food.

[The Gremlin]

Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana.

I'd say that salmon came from a parallel universe.

Edit; Grem, that's assuming the shades give the sovice time to adapt.

But we all know that the Sovices can multiply super fast. They probably have billions by now. Do you really think that the Shades could kill off that many that fast?

[Threeshades]

But we all know that the Sovices can multiply super fast. They probably have billions by now. Do you really think that the Shades could kill off that many that fast?

yes, I think so.

[The Gremlin]

yes, I think so.

Well, I think not. How many troops do you have? Thus far, the only 'reason' you've given for the likelyhood of The Shades being more powerful is 'near-unlimited power'. That's like saying, 'i iz winn becuz i iz AWSOMZ!!!!1111'

[Mad Mask]

yes, I think so.

Um... sir/ma'am, the Holy Sovice Militia is an interstellar organization of replicating machines that possesses starships and can conquer worlds. Do you really think a bunch of fiends created by some minor demon can defeat them ?

[kpenguin]

Um... sir/ma'am, the Holy Sovice Militia is an interstellar organization of replicating machines that possesses starships and can conquer worlds. Do you really think a bunch of fiends created by some minor demon can defeat them ?

They could glass the planet.

EDIT: Also, 3S is a guy.

[Tiffanie Lirle]

Gotta go with the Sovices here, The Shades may be powerful and all. But they're still gonna get flattened.

[Threeshades]

Um... sir/ma'am, the Holy Sovice Militia is an interstellar organization of replicating machines that possesses starships and can conquer worlds. Do you really think a bunch of fiends created by some minor demon can defeat them ?

As long as this plot is just an oversized face-off between me and salmon (which it is) that I don't only think so, but I know they can.

And they are anything but minor anymore.

[DoomITP]

i go with lirle because i dont wanna get owned on gunz once i get the FREAKIN thing goin'

[memnarch]

Um... sir/ma'am, the Holy Sovice Militia is an interstellar organization of replicating machines that possesses starships and can conquer worlds. Do you really think a bunch of fiends created by some minor demon can defeat them ?

Actually, that would be the other sovice side that have the starships and whatnot. The HSM haven't got much of anything really other than a lot of influence so far. Oh, except for the city that they build for the fish.

[Mad Mask]

Actually, that would be the other sovice side that have the starships and whatnot. The HSM haven't got much of anything really other than a lot of influence so far. Oh, except for the city that they build for the fish.

They do have more than Avbaroy, actually. According to the wiki, they possess three Jannic Stellar Engines.

[Threeshades]

despite the shades beign pretty much almighty in the state they are in right now, it would be terribly bad narrative form to go with one BBEG for thoussands of strips suddenly becoming a minor annoyance in favor of some aliens suddenly showing up.

[Tiffanie Lirle]

I think that's just it though, the Shades have had their time in the evil sun. The moment you turned the shades into the big bad you signed a death sentence for them. They would be beaten eventually, it was inevitable.

And if it has to be by self replicating nanomachines from space then so be it.

FFF is never gonna end at this rate.

[memnarch]

They do have more than Avbaroy, actually. According to the wiki, they possess three Jannic Stellar Engines.

Can't find wiki page, nor do i recall a comic showing/talking about them.

[kpenguin]

despite the shades beign pretty much almighty in the state they are in right now, it would be terribly bad narrative form to go with one BBEG for thoussands of strips suddenly becoming a minor annoyance in favor of some aliens suddenly showing up.

And here we come to the basic conflict between simulationism and narrativism.

From the perspective of the worldbuilder, the Sovice should by all rights whup the Shades right now. After all, it is established that they are rather powerful and the UNA was created with the intention of defeating the Shades.

From the perspective of the storyteller, the Sovice should not destroy the shades, Salmon should or at least die trying. It makes for a bad story and a bit of a deux ex machina if the Sovice were to destroy the shades at this point.

Speaking the Shades and the Sovice... why is the UNA attacking Alphantica right now and not concentrating on the Shades? The UNA was formed with the promise of protection from the Shades, no?

[Threeshades]

I think that's just it though, the Shades have had their time in the evil sun. The moment you turned the shades into the big bad you signed a death sentence for them. They would be beaten eventually, it was inevitable.

And if it has to be by self replicating nanomachines from space then so be it.

FFF is never gonna end at this rate.

They have to be beaten. That's the plan. But no one can beat them except for salmon and leroy. And even they cant if threeshades soul is not on the material plane.

From the perspective of the worldbuilder, the Sovice should by all rights whup the Shades right now. After all, it is established that they are rather powerful and the UNA was created with the intention of defeating the Shades.

Created, but not prepared.

[Tiffanie Lirle]

They have to be beaten. That's the plan. But no one can beat them except for salmon and leroy. And even they cant if threeshades soul is not on the material plane.

I've obviously missed something here. But why only Salmon and Leroy? I know the whole business started off with you 3. But how do those 2 fit into the picture now? They're just average landfish.

[memnarch]

@Tiff; it's what the whole plot started over don't'cha know.

[Threeshades]

I've obviously missed something here. But why only Salmon and Leroy? I know the whole business started off with you 3. But how do those 2 fit into the picture now? They're just average landfish.

They're not. They are landfish with a destiny. And a unique poofing ability.

[kpenguin]

They have to be beaten. That's the plan. But no one can beat them except for salmon and leroy. And even they cant if threeshades soul is not on the material plane.

Is this for plot reasons or for actual in-universe reasons.

If an omnicidal maniac destroys the multiverse, will that result in the defeat of Threeshades?

[The Gremlin]

And here we come to the basic conflict between simulationism and narrativism.

From the perspective of the worldbuilder, the Sovice should by all rights whup the Shades right now. After all, it is established that they are rather powerful and the UNA was created with the intention of defeating the Shades.

From the perspective of the storyteller, the Sovice should not destroy the shades, Salmon should or at least die trying. It makes for a bad story and a bit of a deux ex machina if the Sovice were to destroy the shades at this point.

Speaking the Shades and the Sovice... why is the UNA attacking Alphantica right now and not concentrating on the Shades? The UNA was formed with the promise of protection from the Shades, no?

Yeah, but Alphantica is currently attacking the UNA. Or at least planning an attack.
And the Sovice shouldn't kill The Shades, I agree with that. I was talking about the Shades' ARMIES.

[Threeshades]

well, thats an interesting question. Yes, obliterating reality and anything beyond it would probably work too.

[Tiffanie Lirle]

Of course, we'd have a hell of a time starting up Fi then.

[kpenguin]

Yeah, but Alphantica is currently attacking the UNA. Or at least planning an attack.
And the Sovice shouldn't kill The Shades, I agree with that. I was talking about the Shades' ARMIES.

No they're not. They're planning to defend against the RTS Sovereign and an impending invasion.

All they've done is withdraw from UNA membership.