League of Legends XXII: Teamwork OP, Nerf Nao

**Math_Mage** · 2011-09-17, 06:34 PM (ISO 8601)

League of Legends XXI:
Teamwork OP, Nerf Nao

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**Dogmantra** · 2011-09-17, 06:38 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by balistafreak

@Blitzcrank discussion

Blitzcrank's passive: IT WORKS OFF CURRENT MANA, NOT MAX MANA
Okay, so now I got that out of the way here is why you should get a Doran's Ring over a Sapphire Crystal
1. A little more burst (1:1 AP ratio on your pull, it's a tiny bit more damage)
2. Equivalent early tankiness, with tankiness being straight up better the more time you spend in lane due to the Mp5 it gives
3. You need mana regen. Spam more pulls. Win lane.

After that, Triforce is your first item. Manamune is like a worse version of Atmog's on Blitzcrank. I really don't see any reason to get it over an early Triforce, which incidentally, will give you more damage, and a decent amount of tankiness between the health and the mana. After that you don't need to build very tanky because it's not like you ever need to be close to more than one person. And because it's only one person you can CC them for about five seconds straight.

Originally Posted by Maeglin_Dubh

Chalice of Harmony seems a good early-game item for Q-spam Lanewick.

Only against magic lanes. If you're against a physdamager, you can get a Wriggle's instead and use lifesteal rather than Hungering Strike for sustain.

Also I'm proud of you for not going with the stupid Gunblade thing. What a lame obsession anyway I mean sheesh you guys.

**Daverin** · 2011-09-17, 06:41 PM (ISO 8601)

So, I just outlaned Garen with Sion. All I did was keep my stun and shield up for if I need to stop him, leveled up my E to 3, and last hit like a boss. Next thing I know, I am pushing him and he can't do anything because he knows I will just soak any harass.

Is this normal? Was it just a bad Garen? Admittedly, it involved leveling E early, which is obviously not desirable when you are going AP Sion, but I do feel it pretty much was what allowed me to get so many last hits. Thoughts?

**Mutant Bunny** · 2011-09-17, 06:42 PM (ISO 8601)

huzzah, new thread!

While I'm at it, I'm WhollySpart on NA. I have yet to take the time to figure out the voice chat stuff, but I'm usually up for a game.

And if this one goes unnoticed, I'll actually PM it like y'all say to.

**TechnOkami** · 2011-09-17, 06:44 PM (ISO 8601)

Teamwork wins!!

**Math_Mage** · 2011-09-17, 06:45 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Mutant Bunny

huzzah, new thread!

While I'm at it, I'm WhollySpart on NA. I have yet to take the time to figure out the voice chat stuff, but I'm usually up for a game.

And if this one goes unnoticed, I'll actually PM it like y'all say to.

I'm the one who inserted that little paranthetical in the OP several threads ago. I don't miss posts.

EDIT: Also noted yours term1nal.

Originally Posted by Daverin

So, I just outlaned Garen with Sion. All I did was keep my stun and shield up for if I need to stop him, leveled up my E to 3, and last hit like a boss. Next thing I know, I am pushing him and he can't do anything because he knows I will just soak any harass.

Is this normal? Was it just a bad Garen? Admittedly, it involved leveling E early, which is obviously not desirable when you are going AP Sion, but I do feel it pretty much was what allowed me to get so many last hits. Thoughts?

Were I Garen, I wouldn't be scared to trade early harass with Sion because your mana costs are prohibitive over time and I have inherent regen.

**term1nally s1ck** · 2011-09-17, 06:50 PM (ISO 8601)

Ok. So. Is there anyone with a lowish level account on EU West who is trying to level up who wants to premade with me? I'm L10 on my EU account, and trying to earn my way up the ladder.

About to hit 1350 IP again, torn between Garen and Chogath. On one hand, I am REALLY good with Cho. On the other, I want to learn to play more champs solo top with this acct, so...

EDIT:

I'm Silverdevilboy on the EU West servers as well.

**BinaryMage** · 2011-09-17, 06:55 PM (ISO 8601)

I'd like to join in your little club here. BinaryMage on the NA server, currently level 12.

**Tychris1** · 2011-09-17, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)

I've been playing alot of games recently as Talon (Going so far as to even buy him with the bonus 4000 IP I got) and I he seems pretty fun. I think he might need a buff to make him a little less squishy but otherwise he seems like a regular champion to use. Also, it took me a long time to realize that the reason why Kassadin wasn't insta crumpling to my ult is because when I'm right ontop of him only half of the daggers hit him.

**Silverraptor** · 2011-09-17, 07:29 PM (ISO 8601)

So, I'm all up for some other duo que people in case Ott3r isn't on at the same time I'm on.

**Dienekes** · 2011-09-17, 07:34 PM (ISO 8601)

So I'm curious, exactly how does Talon's ult work in terms of damage? Does each dagger deal individual damage that adds up if they all hit one target or does it not stack so the most damage you would deal is just 2 daggers worth?

**Qwertystop** · 2011-09-17, 07:38 PM (ISO 8601)

Woohoo! I suggested a thread title and IT WORKED!
Sure, I was just the first one to remember a suggestion from a few threads ago, BUT STILL!

**Neftren** · 2011-09-17, 08:04 PM (ISO 8601)

Suggestion, rather than having one big list of names that constantly needs to be updated, why don't we just setup a Google Doc or something? Does anyone even use the list anymore?

**Joran** · 2011-09-17, 08:08 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Nargan

As a general rule, phreak has no clue how to build champions. E.G he gets manamune in blitzcrank's champion spotlight.

I'm going to stick up for our DanceMaster Phreak, at least for Blitzcrank.

He doesn't use Manamune, in fact, in his spotlight, he suggests going straight for TriForce, CDR boots, Banshee's Veil or Randuin's (although, not Frozen Heart? puzzling), then IE/Bloodthirster for more physical damage.

Not a bad build at all.

Also, he pulls out the old stomping lane my friend and I use whenever we feel like destroying someone: Blitzcrank + Alistar.

Originally Posted by Qwertystop

Woohoo! I suggested a thread title and IT WORKED!
Sure, I was just the first one to remember a suggestion from a few threads ago, BUT STILL!

Last thread was my suggestion. I may have bragged to quite a few people.

**Daverin** · 2011-09-17, 08:09 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Math_Mage

Were I Garen, I wouldn't be scared to trade early harass with Sion because your mana costs are prohibitive over time and I have inherent regen.

Now that is the one thing; combined with mana-regen from masteries and from doran's (didn't even use runes), his mana buffs have in fact compensated very well in lane, at least in my few runs so far; I've never had any mana issues, even when harassing much more vigorously than that matchup, where it was solely to keep him off me. He certainly seemed to try to harass whenever he could. Then again, I still am quite willing to believe he is bad, since I still can't believe how well I won the lane.

**tribble** · 2011-09-17, 08:19 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Daverin

Now that is the one thing; combined with mana-regen from masteries and from doran's (didn't even use runes), his mana buffs have in fact compensated very well in lane, at least in my few runs so far; I've never had any mana issues, even when harassing much more vigorously than that matchup, where it was solely to keep him off me. He certainly seemed to try to harass whenever he could. Then again, I still am quite willing to believe he is bad, since I still can't believe how well I won the lane.

Garen kinda needs a bush to effectively harass sion, doesn't he? Like, I can easily see garen walking up to sion with his justice ready and then getting "the look". over and over and not getting his attack.

**Math_Mage** · 2011-09-17, 08:56 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by tribble

Garen kinda needs a bush to effectively harass sion, doesn't he? Like, I can easily see garen walking up to sion with his justice ready and then getting "the look". over and over and not getting his attack.

If this was a lane without brush, this wasn't a Sion vs. Garen lane. There's just no way.

**Qwertystop** · 2011-09-17, 09:00 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Math_Mage

If this was a lane without brush, this wasn't a Sion vs. Garen lane. There's just no way.

If it was a lane without brush, it wasn't League of Legends.
Just saying.

**Math_Mage** · 2011-09-17, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Qwertystop

If it was a lane without brush, it wasn't League of Legends.
Just saying.

Mid doesn't count, brush is too far away for spin2win shenanigans. This also makes me recall my question from the previous thread, which was how the heck Sion beats Ryze in mid without brush support. This happened in my last game. I was perplexed.

**toasty** · 2011-09-17, 09:24 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Math_Mage

Mid doesn't count, brush is too far away for spin2win shenanigans. This also makes me recall my question from the previous thread, which was how the heck Sion beats Ryze in mid without brush support. This happened in my last game. I was perplexed.

Ryze is bad.

Actually, that's generally the best response to anything. Why did you lose? Because you are bad.

**LordShotGun** · 2011-09-17, 09:28 PM (ISO 8601)

Well I just started playing LoL and so far I'v been having fun. Even the defeats have been ok and until my most recent game I have not thought any hero as Over Powered.

Then for the first time I fought Tryndamere who as the game progressed got very very fed. Although I accept that melee heroes are very good when fed, I do not think he alone should be able to kill almost our entire team at once.

This may reflect more so on poor teamwork then Tyrn being OP but any suggestions for countering him EXCEPT don't let him feed since that is realistically impossible.

Damn, I wish we had replays available so I could post them and get assistance.

Edit: I was playing Garen and between him and annie are my favorite heroes so far so any suggestions for a Garen build are nice.

**Math_Mage** · 2011-09-17, 09:41 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by toasty

Ryze is bad.

Actually, that's generally the best response to anything. Why did you lose? Because you are bad.

Ryze should hard counter Sion mid because his entire combo, including the stun, is outside Sion's stun range. Same is true of almost any good mid.

Honestly, I think Ryze isn't bad, just situational. Probably shuts down Morgana mid.

**Spartacus** · 2011-09-17, 09:44 PM (ISO 8601)

Just played a 3v3, lost terribly. Then queued up again, and wtf, same people. Proceed to totally steamroll.

**term1nally s1ck** · 2011-09-17, 09:55 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by LordShotGun

Well I just started playing LoL and so far I'v been having fun. Even the defeats have been ok and until my most recent game I have not thought any hero as Over Powered.

Then for the first time I fought Tryndamere who as the game progressed got very very fed. Although I accept that melee heroes are very good when fed, I do not think he alone should be able to kill almost our entire team at once.

This may reflect more so on poor teamwork then Tyrn being OP but any suggestions for countering him EXCEPT don't let him feed since that is realistically impossible.

Damn, I wish we had replays available so I could post them and get assistance.

Edit: I was playing Garen and between him and annie are my favorite heroes so far so any suggestions for a Garen build are nice.

Make sure you have an exhaust, force him to ult quickly, and then drop CC on him.

If he's super fed and the game is still relatively even, you can probably do this while mostly avoiding too much damage from his team. If he's fed and his teammates are even with you, you're way too far behind and shouldn't be engaging in 5v5s at all.

**Daverin** · 2011-09-17, 09:55 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by tribble

Garen kinda needs a bush to effectively harass sion, doesn't he? Like, I can easily see garen walking up to sion with his justice ready and then getting "the look". over and over and not getting his attack.

Didn't help him. He started pushed out far enough that I could farm at the far end of the lane, enough time to stun him before he can combo, although occasionally he got his Q off. Things only got worse for him when he got pushed back, though, which was when my last hitting and hp farming was in full throttle.

EDIT: Awesome, Morello admits that the team will be looking at Trynd and examining what needs to be done. As much fun as winning the lane with AP start is, I would not complain about what comes after that but before 3 item Trynd starts.

**BinaryMage** · 2011-09-17, 10:20 PM (ISO 8601)

Heavy CC is a must for dealing with Tryndamere's ult. I'm assuming you were playing solo queue. Often in solo you'll end up with way too many carries (AP or AD) on the same team and little or no CC. In that kind of situation Trynd really shines, because when most of the opponents are high DPS, squishy, and lacking CC, he can just ult and kill you before his ult expires.

**Daverin** · 2011-09-17, 10:28 PM (ISO 8601)

Its even worse if you are primarily AD, because Trynd likes to crap all over that stat with his obnoxiously large W debuff, which is 100 at rank 5. He is both a carry himself, while simultaneously severely crippling other AD carries.

**BinaryMage** · 2011-09-17, 10:32 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by Daverin

Its even worse if you are primarily AD, because Trynd likes to crap all over that stat with his obnoxiously large W debuff, which is 100 at rank 5. He is both a carry himself, while simultaneously severely crippling other AD carries.

Yep. He's essentially the anti-carry carry. (and generally for that reason very strong in solo queue, at least at the lower levels of play)

**Mutant Bunny** · 2011-09-17, 10:47 PM (ISO 8601)

Originally Posted by LordShotGun

Then for the first time I fought Tryndamere who as the game progressed got very very fed. Although I accept that melee heroes are very good when fed, I do not think he alone should be able to kill almost our entire team at once.

Melee heroes can deal a lot of damage when fed, but there are a number of ways to keep them from doing that damage. One of them is chain-stunning or otherwise slowing him down (with, say, Nunu or Nasus, both of whom pack a substantial AS slow). If you don't have a lot of stuns or slows, you can still kill them by bursting them down quickly.

This may reflect more so on poor teamwork then Tyrn being OP but any suggestions for countering him EXCEPT don't let him feed since that is realistically impossible.

The thing about fed tryn is that, unless he gimps his damage by building defensive items, he'll be very vulnerable to burst damage. Moreover, he needs that lifesteal to stay in the fight. If you can Exhaust and/or Ignite him at any point during the encounter (ignite is especially useful when he uses his ulti), he won't be able to keep himself alive just by damaging you.

One big thing to remember about fighting Tryndamere is that his ult won't always be able to save him. If you can do enough damage quickly enough, he won't be able to activate it in time for it to save him. If he manages to use it, but backs away from the fight to heal, try to force another fight quickly, before it comes off of cooldown.

Edit: I was playing Garen and between him and annie are my favorite heroes so far so any suggestions for a Garen build are nice.

Brutalizer. Build it into ghostblade. Activate Ghostblade after your spin to keep up the chase and secure the kill.

Sunfire Cape is a popular and effective item on Garen, and even after you get Ghostblade, think about getting another brutalizer (and keep it as a brutalizer). The cooldown reduction you get from it is extremely useful.

As for skills, you want to take one (and only one) rank in Courage early, then take spin as often as possible.

**Raistlin1040** · 2011-09-18, 12:05 AM (ISO 8601)

NOT SURE IF TROLLING OR JUST BAD

Just had a situation with a Squidward Anivia. We easily could have won that game but Squiddie insisted on soloing bot (why) and died 5 times in lane, feeding Talon too hard and then Squidwarding all over the place during chases and teamfights.

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