Quote Originally Posted by Vahnavoi View Post
What the original missed is that once the map becomes the territory, it's not possible to just "wake up" and exist outside of it. As a result, the set-up between the resistance and the system is naively black-and-white -
This is exactly what I'm talking about. The set-up in the original movie wasn't "naively black-and-white"- keen observers were even noting at the time that the resistance's lack of concern for collateral damage was morally abhorrent. It was, however, conceptually clear and an in accordance with the movie's narrative and thematic goals, which were to present a hero's journey packaged with a metaphor that audiences found broadly compelling and applicable. Taking the parts of the philosophy that were compatible with making a stylistic action film and leaving the more esoteric parts that couldn't have possibly been worked into the plot in a coherent matter wasn't "missing the point".

The sequels could have gotten into some of those ideas, but in order to do so successfully, they would have needed to start with a story that was structurally sound enough to support them. But they never managed to come up with the right emotional core and the right metaphors to weld the philosophical ideas to said core that they would have needed in order to do that. Instead, they just have characters talk at the audience in-between pointless, overblown action sequences.

There's a deep irony that people talking about "the map becoming the territory" are failing to realize that, if you're going to put things in those terms, the original Matrix was the map that became the territory, and it was the sequels that naively thought that they could "wake up" and get outside of it.

You, along with the sequels, are completely missing the point by trying to argue about the validity of the philosophy rather than the mechanism for their delivery.

Quote Originally Posted by Vahnavoi View Post
there's a reason why the iconography of the original was appropriated by conspiracy nutjobs and other suspect types who miss other points of the movie.
...and I'm not sure there's any possible better demonstration of missing the point than trying to rehabilitate the message of the original Matrix into "Don't question authority".