Do caster out of combat options matter?

[Mastikator]

You're confusing me, sorry to say.

The OP is saying that there is much made about how casters have these utility spells that let them overcome stuff that others can't. And the OP is saying "yeah but... you would just overcome it some other way without the spells, so does it really matter?"

And that would be like saying that teleport is meaningless because you can just walk. If teleport doesn't matter because you can just walk then it's a poorly written campaign. In this matter I 100% agree with Rynjin.

I generally agree with this, as before.

The OP reads to my as if coming from the place where people assume that if the party doesn't have Plane Shift, they can't get to other planes, and this therefore adds a level of superiority and utility to those spellcasters that can access Plane Shift. But we, and the OP, are saying that Plane Shift is not the only way to the other planes, and the party will figure it out. And if the DM designed an adventure with no way to resolve unless a member of the party was:

1. a specific class
2. a specific level
3. and knew a specific spell

Then the DM set everyone up to fail when the party shows up and that specific character isn't in it.

That is putting the cart before the horse.
If the DM wants to run an adventure where the players go to another plane, then the DM should make that possible for any given party.
If the party wants to visit a plane, but doesn't have access to planeshift, then the DM is not *obliged to give them other means.
If the party wants to visit a plane, has access to planeshift but not the right tuning fork, they may **ask to craft or buy one, it's a much smaller ask from the DM than to put a whole archmage or portal.

The DM has many responsibilities, more than any of the players. More than all of the players. The DM can't possibly be asked to make the PCs for the players. The players need to pick up their end of the couch.

Because it's common to view the game through "what can spellcasters do" lenses and think that everything revolves around casters. So this idea that the DM will have to react to the party not having a spell to do something as "burdensome" or "more work" and "co-DMing", but the DM reacting to an impromptu jaunt to another plane of existence, or casting Divination spells all the time, or reading people's thoughts, or speaking with every corpse, etc. is NOT more work for the DM is just a bias.

There is no difference between "We'd like to find a portal to the Plane of Fire" and "We'd like to find a tuning fork attuned to the Plane of Fire" as far as DM burden. The difference will be that the portal will take the players wherever the DM decides, whereas Plane Shift will take the players generally to the location they want to go to. This is the "agency" others are speaking of, but not, what I think, the OP was referring to.

Generally, I would agree with the other side that it matters insofar as timing and precision. But that's not how people talk about it online, and so it's not what the OP is referring to. We all have read countless posts about this and how martials can't do things because they don't have spells, and that's where this is coming from.

TBH if the players have the means to impromptu planeshift then I'd probably end the session early, or take a 1-2 hour break to prepare stuff. It behooves the players to tell the DM what their plan is, so the DM can prep. If the players go off-rails then they should not be upset that the DM needs time to prepare, even if that interrupts the session.

There's four heavy burdens a DM must bear, two are affected by stuff like teleport and planar travel: Adventure prep and world building. Adventure prep takes time, if the players want to craft a tuning fork then that gives the DM time to prep. Then there is world building. The DM may decide that this is a world without friendly living archmages and a world without portals, the players have no right to change the theme of the world. It's a whole lot easier to justify a tuning fork than a portal or an archmage. A world with portals and archmages looks very different than a world without.
There is a huge difference between asking for a portal- ***a world defining element, and asking for a tuning fork.
The same is true for teleport, it's a lot easier to teleport to the other side of the planet, if the players do it without warning then they best get comfortable waiting for the DM to prep.


*the DM may still choose to, but they are not wrong for saying no.
**when they ask to craft a tuning fork they are giving the DM a chance to prep, this lowers the burden to the DM.
***what if the players don't care about that? Why can't we just have fun? You might wonder. Maybe this is what gets the DM excited, gets them motivated to DM. Why are players endlessly catered to and the DM (the one who does all the work) ignored? This deal seems completely lopsided to me.