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2024-05-13, 10:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Yo dawg I heard you like totems
Originally Posted by SkarshKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2024-05-13, 10:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Where there's smoke there's... wait.....
Originally Posted by Those Who Fuel The Smokeless Fire Must Not Be Surprised When The Flames Consume ThemLast edited by The Viscount; 2024-05-13 at 10:30 PM.
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2024-05-13, 10:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Drow love a good backstab
Originally Posted by H'Tull FarkgallenKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2024-05-13, 10:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Here I thought Venger was the only person who liked using Ilmater
Originally Posted by Servaas, the HarmtakerKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2024-05-13, 10:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Yo dawg I heard you like heightened emotional states in combat
Originally Posted by AtredKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2024-05-13, 10:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Wouldn't want that meat to go to waste
Originally Posted by Queyven Dyrr, The Eater of ElvesKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2024-05-13, 10:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
And here's the Chair's non-entry! Don't judge this one.
Originally Posted by The MugwumpKolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2024-05-13, 10:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
That's our entries for the round! Judges, over to you!
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2024-05-14, 12:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Some really cool build right there, wp guys !
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2024-05-14, 04:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Do I spot a Silverwing reference, Viscount? My local library had those books when I was a kid!
Anyway, after some initial apprehension I quite enjoyed building for this round! My builds were built around some pretty surface-level interactions, but in both cases I realized some deeper combos woven in there as I fleshed them out, and I'm happy to see my ideas weren't so obvious others would duplicate them (all builds seem to be doing pretty different things, in fact). I'd love something with easier entry requirements next round, but kinslayer is unique even if it's not good and I felt like it had just enough merit for the right kind of build.
A few ideas of mine that didn't make it:
I realized Endurance could be obtained with a single-level dip via Death's Chosen (Libris Mortis) and had half a thought to spin some lore around Kiaransalee, but none of my other ideas could spare a level to make it work.
My most ridiculous idea was to use Savage Species' over-LAd mess of a Wraith template to synergize with this class specifically: you negate your crippling daylight weakness, Shameful Strike is fine if you're making a single touch attack per round, Smite is considerably more powerful if it adds to constitution rather than regular damage, the shapeshifting would cover up incorporealness as well as drowness... Of course, doing so would make Rage near-useless, which was very ugly.
An idea I had pretty early was to use Knight of the Lily from Dragonlance Campaign Setting. It gives Diehard at level 3, and the entry feat (Honor Bound) gives a bonus on saves to avoid breaking any vow we swear... arguably triggering whenever we're fighting elves thanks to our Vow of Vengeance and synergizing with Mettle to boot. The class gave Sneak Attack and some intimidate synergy as well, plus armor proficiencies if we didn't have those yet. Drow not actually existing in Dragonlance made me apprehensive to use it, though.
Noticing some prerequisite overlap, I thought about going Tattooed Monk 3 to get Diehard for free, along with the White Mask tattoo to cement an infiltrator role a bit better. I might've gone Deepwyrm Half-Drow and worked Disciple of the Eye in there for intimidation synergy, figuring that a humanoid fighting humanoids will often face lower-HD foes.
Still on a monk kick, I realized that being able to rage while lawful made a monk/kinslayer build a perfect fit for Frostrager, which requires IUS and Frozen Berserker for entry. The fluff would've been a tongue-in-cheek tale of a christmas elf rebelling against santa, only to be betrayed and cast out, causing him to swear vengeance on that jolly old archfey and all his minions. This was probably closest to becoming an actual submission, if only because I loved the flavor so much. I might work it out some more, just for fun.
Another idea was to just stack anti-elf bonuses, taking levels in Corrupt Avenger, Scar Enforcer, Foe Hunter, and of course Ranger to be the most over-specialized bonus stack ever.
And the last idea I had was to use Sohei, get Weapon Focus + Deflect Arrows (elves are archers, not?) + Diehard for free in the first 3 levels, then get Sohei casting advanced to the point where it yielded Shield Other to help trigger Vengeful Strike. However, it was only really worth it if I needed Weapon Focus somewhere, and unfortunately that didn't turn out to be the case.Last edited by Inevitability; 2024-05-14 at 04:12 AM.
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2024-05-14, 04:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Fan fact: you actually could enter Kinslayer at 2nd level with two flaws. I thought about full (not lesser) drow monk1/kinslayer 10/ranger 1/foe hunter 6. But it looks too boring for me.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-05-14, 05:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Thinking about it again... you know what we saw surprisingly little of? Elder Evil worship - if there's ever been a PrC that calls for it, it's this one. I'm not disappointed, just surprised.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-05-14, 07:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
I don't know that I've read the Silverwing books. I was just pulling from the base Aesop fable for the story. Here's something funny: In the early phases of the cooking process I considered adding a title like "Bishop of the Great Game" to indicate a sort of inflated sense of self and an allegiance to one of the dragons playing Xorvintaal, as putting an agent in the middle of a long-running war seemed like exactly the sort of convoluted mysterious thing they would do. I decided against it because I liked the punch of the descriptive word alone, thinking I'd work it in to the story at some point. When it came time to write the story, I completely forgot that aspect and only remembered after posting the reveal.
As for elder evil devotion, while it certainly is popular, the feats required for Kinslayer weren't reprinted in Elder Evils, so it would be an uphill battle trying to argue you can take Vile feats that aren't on the table.Last edited by The Viscount; 2024-05-14 at 07:56 PM.
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2024-05-14, 08:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Yeah, I was really surprised that nobody repeated the same gimmick. I was definitely expecting that people would and I had a strong feeling that somebody would do the exact gimmick that I used. But I think it turned out pretty decently. All the builds were fairly interesting. I think I actually have a pretty good shot at this one. But given the quality of work that everybody put in that's definitely not a lock.
I was really surprised that we didn't see a Frenzied Berserker... I was really expecting that. Drow Kinslayer going mad and murdering people is really on-brand and it's a great way to get mileage out of rage that doesn't actually ever improve. I'm also surprised that nobody did anything with stacking Sickening Strike and things that induce Nauseated. Although maybe there's no actual way to make that work. A lot few martial initiators than you'd have expected for a pretty martial focused class as well. But really cool builds.My Avatar is Glimtwizzle, a Gnomish Fighter/Illusionist by Cuthalion.
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2024-05-17, 01:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Is anyone up for judging this round ? :)
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2024-05-23, 08:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Do we have a judge?
Anyway, so that this post has actual content, here's that santa-hating elf-slayer I thought about submitting:
SpoilerLE Half-Drow Decisive Strike Overwhelming Attack Invisible Fist Monk 2 / Half-Elf Paragon 1 / Human Paragon 2 / Kinslayer 4 / Frostrager 5 / Kinslayer +6
Feats:
1: Unspeakable Vow
1B: Improved Unarmed Strike
1B: Power Attack
2B: Improved Bull Rush
3: Vow of Vengeance
3B: Endurance
5B: Diehard
6: Darkstalker
9: Frozen Berserker
12: Shock Trooper
15: Snap Kick
18: Cometary Collision
The basic idea here is that you can be a monk/frostrager without having to get ex-monk as the usual barbarian dip would mandate. You end up with +17 BAB, bonus cold damage and a good unarmed die, cold immunity, and a decent flavorful link between Diehard and the frostrager entry requirement. Hide is a class skill during Frostrager levels thanks to human paragon, making the build an alright scout.
You can make a single unarmed attack, get a second one via Snap Kick, get another one via One-Two Punch, and then finish up with Rend, which means that you can kinda move + full attack every round (or deal double damage with Decisive Strike) and do the whole Shock Trooper ubercharging thing (with Invisible Fist covering the defense drop) without being reliant on pounce. Having this many attacks also makes Vow of Vengeance much better, Frostrager + Monk gives good fortitude saves for Mettle, Surge of Hate is nice when you can just charge t1, Smite Elves synergizes with Decisive Attack for double damage, Elf and Fey Bane benefit from our large number of reliable attacks per round, Shameful Strike is more justifiable because we give up less than half our damage by using it (as opposed to a normal full attacker who misses out on 3 out of 4 hits). Vengeful Strike dovetails with Cometary Collision, where you charge someone for a bunch of damage and then force them to attack you, boosting all of next turn's hits by +8 damage.
Of course, the build didn't really have uses for Disguise Heritage, Deny Elf Magic, or Lolth's Curse - I could maybe have spun some tale about polar days being 6 months long but my heart really wasn't in it.
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-05-23, 08:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
I totally forgot about the table!
# Name Alignment / Race Class Levels Chef Total Place 1 Skarsh CE Half-Drow Unholy Fury Berserker Strength Jaguar Totem Wolf Totem Ape Torem Bear Totem Horse Totem Barbarian 5/Elf Soulborn 4/Half-Elf Paragon 1/Kinslayer 10 2 Those Who Fuel The Smokeless Fire Must Not Be Surprised When The Flames Consume Them NE Mirage Mullah Half-Drow Spirit Shaman 5/Half-Elf Paragon 2/Elemental Archon 1/Kinslayer 8 3 H'Tull Farkgallen ?E Lesser Drow Drow Rogue 7/Assassin 5/ Kinslayer 7 4 Servaas, the Harmtaker LE→LG Lesser Drow Knight 6/Martyred Champion of Ilmater 4/Kinslayer 10 5 Atred CE Deepwyrm Half-Drow Elf Ranger 3/Half-Elf Paragon 1/Kinslayer 10/Wildrunner 6 6 Queyven Dyrr, The Eater of Elves LE Half-Drow Decisive Strike Passive Way Monk 2/Hit-and-Run Fighter 1/Celestial Slayer Ranger 3/Kinslayer 10/Bear Warrior 1 7 The Mugwump NE Changeling Changeling Feat Rogue 1/Savant 2/Dragonfire Adept 4/Ruathar 3/Kinslayer 10 Last edited by loky1109; 2024-05-23 at 08:48 AM.
If you could make anything and everything welcome to the Zinc Saucier XLV: Figaro
My competition's medals.
Spoiler: For purposes of clarity1109 is September, 11 - my birthday.
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2024-05-25, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
So, I wasn't able to finish my submission due to a personal tragedy striking while I was still working on it, but I'll post what I had in case anyone finds it interesting. The entry is incomplete, and I wanted to revamp the skills and completely change the tactical breakdown for Pavel to something that offered more clarity. It's also still unsourced, and Dmitri's progression remains nearly completely unwritten.
But there you go, anyway.
Originally Posted by The Brothers DrakulovScreaming defiance with the last breath
It would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.
My judgments and medals!
The Iron Chef Optimization spreadsheet!
Song, Sword, and Sorcery: my 5E homebrew half-caster bard (Version 2.0!)
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2024-05-25, 02:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
H_H_F_F, my sympathies for the personal matters - I wish you strength in these difficult times.
And on the topic of your build... I'm glad you shared your stub, because it's genius: the idea to advance a template class with legacy champion, the use of legacy weapons in themselves, the way you read Undeath... The idea to do something with Inured to Sunlight had occurred to me (as I mentioned, I played with the idea of the wraith template), but this is much better. I like the themed pair as well!Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
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2024-05-29, 11:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Great idea H_H_F_F !
I've toyed around with it and realise you even found the best way to do it too ; Vampire is LA+8 with a light weakness. The rest of the template classes are LA+2 +3 +4 or +5 and don't benefit fully from Legacy Champion.
Really great idea !
On another topic, do we have a judge yet ?
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2024-05-29, 12:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
I’m happy to start judging. It’ll probably take a week or two, but I shouldn’t take too long.
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2024-05-29, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Creator of the LA-assignment thread.
Join the new Junkyard Wars round and build with Cloaked Dancer and a companion creature!
Interested in judging a build competition on the 3.5 forums but not sure where to begin? Check out the judging handbook!
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2024-05-29, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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2024-06-07, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Judging update: I'm halfway through so far, and hopefully I'll be finished this weekend.
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Yesterday, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Judging has arrived!
Spoiler: Judging Criteria and RubricCategories other than elegance start from 1 and mainly go up. Elegance starts at five and mainly goes down. Points adjustments are based on the questions for each category.
Some minor notes random about my judging style:
I don’t penalize for common ingredients if they’re necessary to make a broad archetype. For instance, I wouldn’t mark down an Archer for taking Point Blank Shot or a Rogue for taking Darkstalker.
Also, while I don’t directly consider backstory in a specific category, it can impact a few of the questions in different ways, especially in elegance for how coherent the build is.
Finally, if a trick or combo isn’t explained directly in an entry and I notice it while judging/it’s only explained in disputes, it’s still worth points, but not as much as if it’s clearly explained from up front.
In general, if the reason I made a decision isn’t clear, feel free to dispute even if you’re not sure my ruling is wrong. I’m happy to explain my thinking and maybe change my mind.
Originality
How expected is your race and any templates, if used? (Matters less in this round because of the race restricted SI)
How expected are your classes?
How expected are your feats, spells, and skills?
Do you have a unique and interesting trick/tactic?
Power
Can you adequately fulfill whatever role you choose at most levels in a mid-op party?
Can you do your main tricks throughout the length of a typical adventuring day?
Can you help at all outside of combat, by healing, tracking, divining or what have you?
Do you have the defenses expected of your role, or are you more or less vulnerable than would be expected?
Elegance
Starts at 5, questions are up to -1 each, automatic 1 if most of the entry is illegal.
Is everything legal?
Does anything rely on ambiguous wording?
Does your build keep a relatively low number of classes and templates? I’m generally fairly lenient on this, but more than 1 single level dip or more than 5 classes/templates will likely cause penalties.
Does your build fit together well, and can it do its main tricks without external resources?
Is your entry neat and are all sources listed?
UotSI
Does Kinslayer give you things you couldn't get without it?
Do you have any useful tricks based on Kinslayer’s class abilities?
Are most class abilities used with reasonable frequency by your character?
Do you qualify legally and in a timely fashion?
Spoiler: Skarsk, 13.25Originality 3.75
How expected is your race and any templates, if used? (Matters less in this round because of the race restricted SI)
Half-drow is pretty much the expected entry. +0
How expected are your classes?
5 levels in Barbarian is fairly surprising, and Soulborn is quite surprising. Half elf paragon is somewhat common, but not particularly over used. +1
How expected are your feats, spells, and skills?
Imperious Command is a common feat for a round the synergizes with intimidate, and your skills are fairly standard, but the rest of your non bonus feats are pretty unexpected. +0.75
Do you have a unique and interesting trick/tactic?
The infinite uses of Lolth’s curse is a cool and unique trick. +1
Power 3
Can you adequately fulfill whatever role you choose at most levels in a mid-op party?
You are always a decent damage dealer, though you’re never amazing. +0.5
Can you do your main tricks throughout the length of a typical adventuring day?
You have impressive stamina with Berserker Strength+Unholy Fury+Sapphire Smite. +1
Can you help at all outside of combat, by healing, tracking, divining or what have you?
You can intimidate and bluff well, though that’s pretty much all you bring outside of combat. +0.25
Do you have the defenses expected of your role, or are you more or less vulnerable than would be expected?
You have good defenses, but given that a lot of your offense comes from running around with ~25 hit points, it doesn’t actually come up much. +0.25
Elegance 3
Starts at 5, questions are up to -1 each, automatic 1 if most of the entry is illegal.
Is everything legal?
I think the multiple Totems trick is illegal. While switching is allowed, I assume that means actually switching which Totem abilities you get and not just stacking one from each level. You’re effectively trading away the same class features several times which is illegal. -1
Does anything rely on ambiguous wording?
I’m also not convinced that Sapphire Smite works on each use of Unholy Fury. I would rule that Unholy Fury is one smite ability and that you get the extra uses per day, not per rage. However, it’s not unambiguously illegal. -0.5
Does your build keep a relatively low number of classes and templates? I’m generally fairly lenient on this, but more than 1 single level dip or more than 5 classes/templates will likely cause penalties.
You’re fine here. +0
Does your build fit together well thematically, and can it do its main tricks without external resources?
Your plan to use elves to cause chaos in drow cities is cool and all, but you don’t have any mechanical way to assemble them other than via skills, making it hard to actually pull off without outside help. -0.5
Is your entry neat and are all sources listed?
Your entry is quite neat. +0
UotSI 3.5
Does Kinslayer give you things you couldn't get without it?
Lolth’s Curse is unique, and the combination of Rage and Smites is something you definitely want. +0.75
Do you have any useful tricks based on Kinslayer’s class abilities?
Infinite Lolth’s Curse is interesting, though only half of it derives from Kinslayer abilities. +0.75
Are most class abilities used with reasonable frequency by your character?
You make good use of Lolth’s Curse and use the rest of the class's abilities an approximately average amount of times. +0.5
Do you qualify legally and in a timely fashion?
You qualify legally and finish the class, though it is late. +0.5
Notes: This build was thematic, and I liked the Berserker Strength trick. I’m fond of Berserker Strength optimization. I just wasn’t convinced the main trick is actually legal, which holds back its score.
Spoiler: Those Who Fuel The Smokeless Fire Must Not Be Surprised When The Flames Consume Them 17Originality 4
How expected is your race and any templates, if used? (Matters less in this round because of the race restricted SI)
Mirage Mullah was unexpected, and I think you’re the only one who used a template. +1
How expected are your classes?
Half elf paragon was expected, but not Spirit Shaman or Elemental Archon. +1
How expected are your feats, spells, and skills?
Imperious Command shows up a lot in ingredients suited for intimidation, and Charming the Arrow and Intimidating Rage are both reasonably common.Unseelie Court Noble Kelir isn’t something I’ve encountered before, but Acorn of Far Travel is notorious for showing up a lot. +0
Do you have a unique and interesting trick/tactic?
Weaponizing Mirage Mullah is inspired, and it’s definitely unique. +1
Power 3.5
Can you adequately fulfill whatever role you choose at most levels in a mid-op party?
You’re a solid face and can more or less fill the caster role via SLAs and your Spirit Shaman casting, though you are a little spread out. +0.75
Can you do your main tricks throughout the length of a typical adventuring day?
You might struggle a little with your limited spell slots and high level SLAs, but you have a lot of options and shouldn’t have much trouble. +0.75
Can you help at all outside of combat, by healing, tracking, divining or what have you?
You’re a good face, as I mentioned before, but you can also scout a tiny bit and have some useful SLAs. +0.75
Do you have the defenses expected of your role, or are you more or less vulnerable than would be expected?
You’re pretty fragile due to your level adjustment, but also due to your status as a Mirage Mullah giving you a weakness that relies on keeping an intact Acorn of Far Travel to avoid dying/keep your powers. +0.25
Elegance 5
Starts at 5, questions are up to -1 each, automatic 1 if most of the entry is illegal.
Is everything legal?
I believe so. +0
Does anything rely on ambiguous wording?
I thought that you couldn’t use craft alchemy to make poisons, but upon closer inspection it seems you actually can, which surprised me. No penalty here, then. +0
Does your build keep a relatively low number of classes and templates? I’m generally fairly lenient on this, but more than 1 single level dip or more than 5 classes/templates will likely cause penalties.
You’re just under the limits I set, so no penalty. +0
Does your build fit together well, and can it do its main tricks without external resources?
Your backstory justifies all of your fey powers, which makes your build feel much more cohesive than its disparate parts. The most awkward part is the use of magic dependent on an oak in a desert themed character, but the wikipedia link is enough to avoid the penalty, given that it mentions Acorns. +0
Is your entry neat and are all sources listed?
Yes it is. +0
UotSI 4.5
Does Kinslayer give you things you couldn't get without it?
Inured to Sunlight is unique to Kinslayer, which is a big draw for you, as is Fey Bane. +1
Do you have any useful tricks based on Kinslayer’s class abilities?
Turning enemies into fey to get extra bonuses against them is quite nice, as is the use of Inured to Sunlight and Shameful Strike. +1
Are most class abilities used with reasonable frequency by your character?
You explain how every one of the class abilities you get is useful for you, which is quite an impressive feat. +1
Do you qualify legally and in a timely fashion?
You qualify legally, though it’s fairly late and you don’t finish the class. +0.5
Notes: This was a really nicely developed build that was really well laid out and explained. While it lacks direct power, it’s broadness and creativity makes it seem super fun to play.
Spoiler: H’Tull Farkgallen 9.25Originality 1.75
How expected is your race and any templates, if used? (Matters less in this round because of the race restricted SI)
Lesser drow is just as expected as Half Drow. +0
How expected are your classes?
Rogue and Assassin are never totally unexpected, though they’re maybe a little surprising for a melee SI. +0.25
How expected are your feats, spells, and skills?
Your skills aren’t super surprising, and your feats are mostly fairly standard. I’ve never heard of Quick Attack, but as I’m not sure it actually exists, that’s not a huge positive. +0.25
Do you have a unique and interesting trick/tactic?
You’re an assassin who hates elves, which isn’t really a crazy concept for a kinslayer. The three improved uncanny dodges are funny though. +0.25
Power 2.5
Can you adequately fulfill whatever role you choose at most levels in a mid-op party?
You’re a meh sneak/assassin type, especially against elves, but your numbers aren’t high and you lack Darkstalker, limiting your power. +0.25
Can you do your main tricks throughout the length of a typical adventuring day?
Your spells are limited in use, as are your rages, but it seems like you’re mostly just attacking in melee which isn’t limited by daily use. +0.5
Can you help at all outside of combat, by healing, tracking, divining or what have you?
You’ve got decent skills, though there’s nothing special here. +0.5
Do you have the defenses expected of your role, or are you more or less vulnerable than would be expected?
You don’t have great defenses as your Con is fairly low and your saves are only mediocre. +0.25
Elegance 4
Starts at 5, questions are up to -1 each, automatic 1 if most of the entry is illegal.
Is everything legal?
Yeah, everything is legal. +0
Does anything rely on ambiguous wording?
You don’t rely on ambiguous wording. +0
Does your build keep a relatively low number of classes and templates? I’m generally fairly lenient on this, but more than 1 single level dip or more than 5 classes/templates will likely cause penalties.
You keep a low number of classes. +0
Does your build fit together well, and can it do its main tricks without external resources?
A pretty standard backstory for Kinslayers keeps your build cohesive, and your don’t need external help.
Is your entry neat and are all sources listed?
You only say your race in your sources, and also you don’t provide a source for Quick Attack, leaving me unsure where it came from and what it does. There’s some mistakes in your spell table, but it’s not too bad. Also, what happened to your level three feat? -1
UotSI 1
Does Kinslayer give you things you couldn't get without it?
You don’t really need anything for Kinslayer as you only mention it “helps with combat against elves and not much else.” +0
Do you have any useful tricks based on Kinslayer’s class abilities?
Not really, no. You don’t mention anything in your write up, so I have no idea if it exists. +0
Are most class abilities used with reasonable frequency by your character?
You don’t seem to have a way to make good use of any of the abilities, and none of them mesh with your stealthy playstyle. +0
Do you qualify legally and in a timely fashion?
You don’t have Diehard, but I presume that was supposed to be your level three feat. You also start the SI late and don’t fully complete it. +0
Notes: This build seemed kinda conventional to me, and it barely integrated the SI into its tactics at all. More of a write up would have helped, but I have basically no idea what it can do other than standard rogue and assassin stuff and hurt elves.
Spoiler: Servaas, the Harmtaker 16Originality 4
How expected is your race and any templates, if used? (Matters less in this round because of the race restricted SI)
Lesser Drow is expected. +0
How expected are your classes?
Knight is a little surprising, and I’m a big fan of the class. Martyred Champion of Ilmate is very surprising- an exalted ingredient in a vile round. +1.25
How expected are your feats, spells, and skills?
Nimbus of Light and Righteous Wrath are both big surprises, and Unbelievable Luck and the rest of your luck feats are a smaller one. Ride is also not really expected, though Intimidating Rage and Extra Rage are both something I vaguely saw coming. +0.75
Do you have a unique and interesting trick/tactic?
The indefinite duration fear trick is certainly interesting, and not something I’ve seen before. +1
Power 3.5
Can you adequately fulfill whatever role you choose at most levels in a mid-op party?
You’re a solid tank/battlefield control the whole way through, though you struggle against fear immune opponents. +0.75
Can you do your main tricks throughout the length of a typical adventuring day?
You have a bit of trouble with making your rages, luck feats, knight’s challenges last the whole day, but you shouldn’t have too much trouble. +0.5
Can you help at all outside of combat, by healing, tracking, divining or what have you?
You are an okay face via intimidation and can scout a bit, but you can’t do a ton. +0.25
Do you have the defenses expected of your role, or are you more or less vulnerable than would be expected?
Divine Grace+Knight Class features+Martyred Champion+Rage and Mettle make you extremely tough, even more so than a regular Kinslayer. +1
Elegance 4.5
Starts at 5, questions are up to -1 each, automatic 1 if most of the entry is illegal.
Is everything legal?
Everything is at least arguably legal. +0
Does anything rely on ambiguous wording?
While your explanation of keeping vile feats as an exalted character makes sense from a rules explanation, it could definitely cause problems in an actual game that’s not focused around your character. -0.5
Does your build keep a relatively low number of classes and templates? I’m generally fairly lenient on this, but more than 1 single level dip or more than 5 classes/templates will likely cause penalties.
Three classes is well within the limits I set. +0
Does your build fit together well, and can it do its main tricks without external resources?
Your backstory does a really nice job of tying together the strange seeming combination of extreme fear and mercy, helping you avoid a major penalty here. However, your lack of a mount as a class feature is a slight drawback here. +0
Is your entry neat and are all sources listed?
Yes it is. +0
UotSI 4
Does Kinslayer give you things you couldn't get without it?
It lets you get Rage with knight levels as well as enabling your main fear combo. +1
Do you have any useful tricks based on Kinslayer’s class abilities?
The “make them flee for the rest of their life” combo isn’t directly enabled by Kinslayer as any source of rage would have worked, but it is very facilitated by its abilities like Disguise Heritage and Shameful Strike. +0.75
Are most class abilities used with reasonable frequency by your character?
Most of the anti-elf features see fairly normal levels of usage, but you make extra good use of rage, shameful strike, and Disguise Heritage. +0.75
Do you qualify legally and in a timely fashion?
Your qualification is basically legal, but I penalized for that above, and while it’s a little late, you finish the whole class. +0.5
Notes: Servaas was a really solid build that makes very nice use of Kinslayer. I thought the backstory was nice, and while I don’t necessarily approve of the alignment shenanigans, they make the character work quite well.
Spoiler: Atred 12.75Originality 2.5
How expected is your race and any templates, if used? (Matters less in this round because of the race restricted SI)
Half-drow doesn’t score points. +0
How expected are your classes?
Ranger is an expected pick for the SI, given that it has a creature hunting focus and gives a required bonus feat, and Half-Elf Paragon shows up a fair amount. Wildrunner is rarer, though not completely unheard of. +0.5
How expected are your feats, spells, and skills?
Favored Power Attack isn’t unexpected, as is Leap Attack, but Eliservs School and Weapon Focus are rarer. +0.5
Do you have a unique and interesting trick/tactic?
The Eliservs School optimization is new to me, though it’s not an incredibly unique trick. +0.5
Power 3.25
Can you adequately fulfill whatever role you choose at most levels in a mid-op party?
You’re a decent beatstick, especially against Drow, and you’re a proper ubercharger by your later levels. +0.75
Can you do your main tricks throughout the length of a typical adventuring day?
You don’t have a ton of rage uses, so you can’t really afford to do it every battle, but otherwise, you’re okay. +0.75
Can you help at all outside of combat, by healing, tracking, divining or what have you?
You can sneak a little, though you lack Darkstalker, and while you can technically track, you leave survival quite low. +0.25
Do you have the defenses expected of your role, or are you more or less vulnerable than would be expected?
You’re better against will save effects than the average ubercharger, but overall it’s only a marginal improvement. +0.5
Elegance 4.25
Starts at 5, questions are up to -1 each, automatic 1 if most of the entry is illegal.
Is everything legal?
Everything is legal. +0
Does anything rely on ambiguous wording?
I disagree a little with your reading of how racial SLA caster level interacts with staves. I believe that they use the relevant caster level, which would be your ranger caster level in this case. While it’s not cut and dry, I believe that my ruling is RAI and thus creates a slight penalty in this category. -0.25
Does your build keep a relatively low number of classes and templates? I’m generally fairly lenient on this, but more than 1 single level dip or more than 5 classes/templates will likely cause penalties.
Nice low number of classes. +0
Does your build fit together well, and can it do its main tricks without external resources?
You don’t have a way to craft staves without Heward’s Hall (which would also be an elegance penalty), and the ones you suggest are all custom, meaning they’re unlikely to be available. Also, you can’t cast daylight yourself, meaning you can’t do the “lights on” technique without outside help. -0.5
Is your entry neat and are all sources listed?
Your entry is neat and sources are listed. +0
UotSI 2.75
Does Kinslayer give you things you couldn't get without it?
You mainly use it for rage stacking and extra drow hate, both of which you can get without it, though not necessarily in the same package. +0.25
Do you have any useful tricks based on Kinslayer’s class abilities?
You don’t have any particular tricks with class abilities other than using Lolth’s Curse with Primal Scream, which I don’t think actually works because Primal Scream is a separate ability that stacks with rage. +0.25
Are most class abilities used with reasonable frequency by your character?
That said, you get decent mileage out of most of the class abilities and use them regularly. +0.5
Do you qualify legally and in a timely fashion?
You qualify quite quickly, and while you leap out just as quickly, you come back and finish it. +0.75
Notes: Atred was a very solid build with decent optimization behind it. It’s mainly held back by not making amazing use of Kinslayer, instead centering around Eliservs School, but the innovative way to make an ubercharger was quite nice to read.
Spoiler: Queyven Dyrr, Eater of Elves 14.75Originality 2.5
How expected is your race and any templates, if used? (Matters less in this round because of the race restricted SI)
Half drow is expected. +0
How expected are your classes?
Monk and Fighter dips are pretty common, Celestial Slayer Ranger less so, but it makes sense in the context of this round. Bear Warrior and Warshaper are also both fairly common. +0.25
How expected are your feats, spells, and skills?
None of your feats are particularly unexpected, though Extra Smiting was a little surprising. +0.25
Do you have a unique and interesting trick/tactic?
The combination of Decisive Strike and Rage is cool, as is turning into a Bear. +1
Power 3.75
Can you adequately fulfill whatever role you choose at most levels in a mid-op party?
You’re a powerful beat stick that can lock down the area quite effectively. +0.75
Can you do your main tricks throughout the length of a typical adventuring day?
You have enough rages and smites for 1 per combat, which is plenty. +1
Can you help at all outside of combat, by healing, tracking, divining or what have you?
You can do a tiny bit of spotting and listening, but you can’t really do much outside of combat. +0.25
Do you have the defenses expected of your role, or are you more or less vulnerable than would be expected?
You have a lot of durability from your shapeshifting and raging, even more so than the typical area control beatstick. +0.75
Elegance 4.5
Starts at 5, questions are up to -1 each, automatic 1 if most of the entry is illegal.
Is everything legal?
Everything is legal here. +0
Does anything rely on ambiguous wording?
No, not really. +0
Does your build keep a relatively low number of classes and templates? I’m generally fairly lenient on this, but more than 1 single level dip or more than 5 classes/templates will likely cause penalties.
You have six classes and two one level dips, which isn’t ideal. -0.5
Does your build fit together well, and can it do its main tricks without external resources?
As you pointed out, it has a nice level progression, and it’s a pretty self sufficient and thematically cohesive build. +0
Is your entry neat and are all sources listed?
Yes. +0
UotSI 4
Does Kinslayer give you things you couldn't get without it?
It gives you Rage as a Lawful character, which is pretty rare. +1
Do you have any useful tricks based on Kinslayer’s class abilities?
Using Kinslayer to set up the Decisive Bear combo is pretty nice. +0.75
Are most class abilities used with reasonable frequency by your character?
You get good mileage out of Rage and Smite, though you don’t get much use from other abilities. +0.5
Do you qualify legally and in a timely fashion?
You qualify early and legally, and then hop out for a bit, but you do finish it. +0.75
Notes: This is a very satisfying build. I like the focus on its main trick and the smooth progression. Plus, bears are fun. My only real issue with it is that it feels like it mostly just uses Kinslayer to get rage as a lawful character, not really for its other abilities, but that’s pretty minor.
Spoiler: Notes on other partial builds:Mugwump- I like this build’s main gimmick. The story of Bat is funny, and it’s a good way to use Kinslayer. I was also happy to see some Savant in there. It wouldn’t really be a Viscount build if there wasn’t.
Brothers Darkulov- As others have said, the idea is super cool. I wish you had been able to submit, and I hope your personal stuff is getting better. The Legacy Champion+Kinslayer+Vampire template is really cool. One tiny nitpick is that there’s one other way to remove a vampire’s sunlight weakness- via the Shadow Sun Ninja’s capstone, but it’s much less efficient than your way. Overall, a really great idea that would have made a great entry.
Spoiler: Overall NotesThis was a solid round. The builds were all pretty distinct, which was quite nice as it kept the judging from getting boring. The focus on the different abilities was also fun because it felt like every part of the class got used in at least one entry. Feel free to dispute away. I can’t wait for the next round.
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Today, 03:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Thanks for judging, FactualArcher! And thanks for the notes on my build. I'm slowly adjusting to the personal loss, thanks for asking.
I will note that I said it's the only blanket protection against sunlight available to PC vampires, and Shadow Sun Ninja capstone explicitly turns you into an NPC. NPCs can also be vampire lords, which are significantly weakened by sunlight but not outright destroyed by it. I do believe kinslayer is unique, and no other PC option I can think of can achieve what it does.Screaming defiance with the last breath
It would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as FREEDOM should not be highly rated.
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The Iron Chef Optimization spreadsheet!
Song, Sword, and Sorcery: my 5E homebrew half-caster bard (Version 2.0!)
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Today, 09:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2012
Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground CXXXII
Thank you for judging, FactualArcher.
Chefs, in the interests of keeping things moving I would like to move to the reveal after a 48 hour window for disputes, if any, which would be about 13:59 GMT on Tuesday.Kolyarut Avatar by Potatocubed.
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