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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kurald Galain
Okay. I'm not convinced that "equal standing" means "equal level"; it could also mean e.g. rank in their respective churches. Is there perhaps more evidence on the topic?
Isn't Malack High priest of Nergal? In that case, It wouldn't be equal rank in their respective churches, since Durkon was practically banished (in secret, not officialy) from his church.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Malack is high priest of the EoB. Not necessarily the high priest of Nergal, unless I missed something.
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Originally Posted by
Kurald Galain
Okay. I'm not convinced that "equal standing" means "equal level"; it could also mean e.g. rank in their respective churches. Is there perhaps more evidence on the topic?
Not at present.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
He could just mean "a fellow cleric who spent a number of years adventuring."
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
I'm sorry if I missed it, but just for the sake of completeness, have we gotten confirmation that Malack is a vampire? We've had other examples in-comic of undead creatures that can convert others into creatures of their own type by biting them--creatures that aren't vulnerable to sunlight, like Malack isn't.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
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Originally Posted by
Baphomet
I'm sorry if I missed it, but just for the sake of completeness, have we gotten confirmation that Malack is a vampire? We've had other examples in-comic of undead creatures that can convert others into creatures of their own type by biting them--creatures that aren't vulnerable to sunlight, like Malack isn't.
Yes, he is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Giant
OK, trying not to comment too much on stuff that will be explained in future comics but:
You guys are overthinking the black speech bubble thing. Remember that the speech bubbles are an artifact of the comic strip process, which means they are subservient to the story. Obviously, it was narratively important to hide that Malack was undead, so therefore I decided he only speaks in black speech bubbles when he "vamps out." After all, vampires in fiction have a long history of having traits that only pop out when they feed: their fangs elongate, their eyes turn read, maybe their face gets all demony-looking if you want to go the
Buffy the Vampire Slayer route. Changing voice is not outside of that realm.
Also, I already pointed out that
Tarquin was able to change his speech balloons just by adopting a different way of speaking. It's not my fault no one extrapolated that to mean that characters—like the one floating next to him—can disguise/change the visual appearance of their balloons. :smalltongue:
As far as other questions, you'll have to wait and see.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Tarquin identifies a Blade Barrier spell in this comic. The DC for identifying an already-cast spell is 20+spell level, so that's a DC 26 Spellcraft check that he makes. Can we infer anything from this?
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Flame of Anor
Tarquin identifies a Blade Barrier spell
in this comic. The DC for identifying an already-cast spell is 20+spell level, so that's a DC 26 Spellcraft check that he makes. Can we infer anything from this?
Well, we can maybe infer that he has at least a +6 Spellcraft, likely higher. And it is a trained only skill, so he would have some ranks in it. Unless the Giant rules that a character can sometimes identify spells he has seen in action and taken note of, regardless of skill ranks. I'm sure, for example, that most people in the Order could identify Explosive Runes without Spellcraft ranks.
But going the route of assuming the rules are being changed without any indication of them being changed is a bigger assumption than just assuming Tarquin has Spellcraft ranks. I doubt the Giant had it in mind to clue us in that Tarquin would need to have X many skill ranks to identify the barrier. But I do think that he was trying to show the audience that Tarquin is a knowledgeable guy. That knowledge would be best translated as training in spellcraft.
With Tarquin's possible epic level and likely high Int./plentiful magic items? I wouldn't be surprised if he had a spellcraft check of 15+.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Flame of Anor
Tarquin identifies a Blade Barrier spell
in this comic. The DC for identifying an already-cast spell is 20+spell level, so that's a DC 26 Spellcraft check that he makes. Can we infer anything from this?
I know the SRD rules don't mention this, but wouldn't a spell with a highly recognisable effect have a lower DC? I mean a "Blade Barrier" literally puts a barrier made of blades into place, there are no other spells that do this (apart maybe from an illusion that would imitate the effect). This is quite different from, for instance, Harm, another 6th level spell, where the effect is inflicting damage and could be caused by any number of spells. Could such a highly recognisable effect be considered as a circumstance bonus?
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Flame of Anor
Tarquin identifies a Blade Barrier spell
in this comic. The DC for identifying an already-cast spell is 20+spell level, so that's a DC 26 Spellcraft check that he makes. Can we infer anything from this?
As it was cast by Mallack, no, we can't - I'm quite sure you don't need Spellcraft to identify spell you're familiar with.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Spellcraft is also for identifying which spells are currently being cast. Once it's done, it is much easier to determine that just was a Fireball.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
I have frequently read on these forums how sub-par are the choices OOTS made concerning their feat/class/item selection.
Since we already know quite a bit of their stats, as well as the threats they had to face - were there any threads about the more optimal choices they could've made with their resources? Of course, sticking to their preferred party roles...
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
I was thinking, should V have the spells Flamefinger and Distant Inferno from OtOoPC listed?
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Just wondering, doesn't Xykon have a ring that protects him from positive energy like in SoD? Or is that the Ring of Protection already listed? (I'm not familiar with 3.5)
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
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Originally Posted by
mawexzon
I was thinking, should V have the spells Flamefinger and Distant Inferno from OtOoPC listed?
Isn't Distant Inferno more "Massive Fireball to Own Face?"
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
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Originally Posted by
Procyonpi
Isn't Distant Inferno more "Massive Fireball to Own Face?"
And Energy Drain is just Double-Powered Enervation, but it still is considered a different spell
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Procyonpi
Isn't Distant Inferno more "Massive Fireball to Own Face?"
In the actual effect, yes. That's due to an unintentional scribing error, however, and the official name is still Distant Inferno.
I will be very surprised if Rich ever has V actually use it in the comic, though, so I don't think it matters. I think it would be highly amusing, but it depends too much on people having read a print-only book and it being useful would take too contrived circumstances. The amount of setup required for that joke just seems too much to be worth it.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SinsI
I have frequently read on these forums how sub-par are the choices OOTS made concerning their feat/class/item selection.
Since we already know quite a bit of their stats, as well as the threats they had to face - were there any threads about the more optimal choices they could've made with their resources? Of course, sticking to their preferred party roles...
For starters, it's easy to shift into classes/PrCs that would significantly boost their power. Even keeping a lot of the personal touches (Roy's ancestral sword, V's preference for blasting, Haley's archery, and so on), there are much better options, such as...
Roy: Warblade
Elan: Sublime Chord
V: Incantatrix
Durkon: Contemplative or (given the campaign) Sacred Exorcist
Haley: Dip into a casting class (e.g. Warlock) for spells that work well with archery
Belkar: Ye gods, just pick anything else.
Even keeping the same classes and sticking to Core, there's lots of little things that would make them more powerful. Buy/find Rings of Freedom of Movement, or have Durkon cast it. Build Durkon or V more around buffing/debuffing. Build Roy more like, well, Tarquin. Give Haley a Splitting bow. Etc.
I mean, it's plain that this would be bad for the narrative, but if you want to rebuild the OotS as a high-op party, you could start here.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Corneel
I know the SRD rules don't mention this, but wouldn't a spell with a highly recognisable effect have a lower DC?
Not by RAW, which is what we're working with by default.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SinsI
As it was cast by Mallack, no, we can't - I'm quite sure you don't need Spellcraft to identify spell you're familiar with.
I don't see that anywhere on the Spellcraft SRD page.
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Originally Posted by
Winter
Spellcraft is also for identifying which spells are currently being cast.
But blade barrier had already been cast; thus, that is irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
Once it's done, it is much easier to determine that just was a Fireball.
Again, I don't see this anywhere in the SRD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mawexzon
I was thinking, should V have the spells Flamefinger and Distant Inferno from OtOoPC listed?
I agree.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
To determine the Effect of a spell is not the same as to determine the Spell...
Something is strange with Belkar's Wisdom score:
Cure Serious Wounds is a Cleric spell level 3, Ranger level 4
To be able to cast it, he needed 10+4 = Wisdom of 14 (or 13, if you think one should go with the Durkon's spell limit)
Owl's Wisdom can only increase it by 4, so his minimum Wisdom is 9-10
And that doesn't give any penalty...
Furthermore, since the "penalty" comic was after the "scroll use" comic, we can't even argue that he invested some points into it...
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
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Originally Posted by
Flame of Anor
Not by RAW, which is what we're working with by default.
I don't see that anywhere on the
Spellcraft SRD page.
"Circumstance Modifier
A circumstance bonus (or penalty) arises from specific conditional factors impacting the success of the task at hand. Circumstance bonuses stack with all other bonuses, including other circumstance bonuses, unless they arise from essentially the same source."
IMHO it's within a reasonable doubt that Rich could have given Tarquin a circumstance bonus to recognize a spell cast by his old friend and companion who has probably cast it in front of Tarquin before. In fact, in that case it would be more a case of remembering what it looks like than identifying a novel spell; I don't know that I'd make him roll Spellcraft at all in this situation.
And hey, it's also a DC 21 check to recognize a spell being cast from its verbal and somatic components, but nobody's saying it's likely Gannji has ranks in Spellcraft.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mawexzon
I was thinking, should V have the spells Flamefinger and Distant Inferno from OtOoPC listed?
Good catch. Added.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The_Tentacle
Just wondering, doesn't Xykon have a ring that protects him from positive energy like in SoD? Or is that the Ring of Protection already listed? (I'm not familiar with 3.5)
That's a different ring (the ring of protection only gives a bonus to his AC).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SinsI
To be able to cast it, he needed 10+4 = Wisdom of 14 (or 13, if you think one should go with the Durkon's spell limit)
The level of a scroll is set by the one who creates it, not the one who casts it. By RAW, some divine spells are different in level for clerics and druids than they are for paladins and rangers. Such spells appear at the level appropriate to a cleric or druid.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
We can add Protection from Daylight (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0871.html) to Malak's spell list.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Malack has homebrewed a Protection from Daylight spell, so I've added that.
And it looks like Durkon has perfected Mass Death Ward.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ReaderAt2046
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RMS Oceanic
Malack has homebrewed a Protection from Daylight spell, so I've added that.
And it looks like Durkon has perfected Mass Death Ward.
Thank you!
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Flame of Anor
But blade barrier had already been cast; thus, that is irrelevant.
Yes. That was my point. Good you caught it.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Also we can confirm that Belkar's minimum pre-drain constitution was 2, as a Vampire's Blood Drain deals 1d4 Con drain. The next few comics may still render this moot, but it's a solid boundary.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Durkon should have the "unfinished" removed from "Mass Death Ward", since he already got it working.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Math_Mage
And hey, it's also a DC 21 check to recognize a spell being cast from its verbal and somatic components, but nobody's saying it's likely Gannji has ranks in Spellcraft.
Is Spellcraft even used in OotS? For instance, we have non-casters like Haley and Roy routinely identifying spells, both as they are cast and active ones.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Well, if someone says "Blade Barrier" and a blade of barrier appears, i think the effect would be pretty obvious.
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Re: Class and Level Geekery IX: the thread levels up again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kurald Galain
The level of a scroll is set by the one who
creates it, not the one who casts it.
By RAW, some divine spells are different in level for clerics and druids than they are for paladins and rangers. Such spells appear at the level appropriate to a cleric or druid.
Still requires a minimum of 13 Wisdom to cast it. This pins Belkar's possible Wisdom score to be 9 to 12 without the buff - and none of those give a penalty.