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Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Basically, a challenge to create an optimised, flavourful character, using a "Secret Ingredient" of a particular PrC, different for each contest. You will need to present your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:
Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.
Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.
Cooking Time: Contestants will have until Friday July 9th to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Private-Prinny. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying.
Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.
Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavour for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic point lost in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.
Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when anonymising the entries!
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.
Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners.
So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for about 5 judges and as many contestants as feel like playing!
This week's Secret Ingredient is (I apologize in advance)...
Complete Arcane's Green Star Adept!
Allez optimiser!
Judges
arguskos
Ingus
Ozymandias9
the humanity
true_shinken
Contestants
Akal_Saris
Amphetryon
Arbitrarity
Chineselegolas
Fax Celestis
Hand_of_Vecna
Keld Denar
Navigator
Octopus Jack
ShneekyTheLost
The Vorpal Tribble
WinWin
Past Competitions
Iron Chef I (Entropomancer)
Iron Chef II (Psibond Agent)
Iron Chef III (Cancer Mage)
Iron Chef IV (Stonelord)
Iron Chef V (War Chanter)
Iron Chef VI (Master of Masks)
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
1. I HATE GREEN STAR ADEPT. Nah, we coo, we coo, aightaight.
2. Hey, look, I'm judging again. Go figure. :smallamused:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
1. You're an evil, evil monkey penguin, Prinny.
2. I'll compete. :smalltongue:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Well, I planned for this. Contestant entering here.
Inquiry: How does the Improved Caster Level feature work? Does it give an additional 10 caster levels?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amphetryon
1. You're an evil, evil monkey penguin, Prinny.
Sorry. I have a soft spot for interesting capstones:smalltongue: (Interesting =/= Good).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arbitrarity
Inquiry: How does the Improved Caster Level feature work? Does it give an additional 10 caster levels?
Read the given example. That should clear things up.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
CURSE YOU.
That example doesn't even make sense due to BAB requirements!
Also, I'm going to use it in a very silly fashion.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Every level improves CL. Because of the wording, I'm going to assume it gets factored in before any other CL boosts.
I would like to compete if that is ok.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Fax, are you thinking the same trick I am thinking of?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
I've no idea on what I'm going to do yet. I'll figure it out.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arbitrarity
Fax, are you thinking the same trick I am thinking of?
I was, Arbitrarity. :smallwink:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Draz74
I was, Arbitrarity. :smallwink:
:smallconfused: Come on, there has to be more than one trick you guys can pull. Shock and amaze me.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Draz74
I was, Arbitrarity. :smallwink:
I am entertained. Did you derive why I asked Fax, and then jump to my concept?
So now I have three builds, of varying simplicity, complexity, and power. One of them uses one trick, the others both use another. I like the second trick for simplicity, but it lacks originality. The first trick is questionable, and rather inelegant.
Ech. In retrospect, the trick is pointless because of the nature of the third build. That makes it just simple, and ultimately unoriginal.
First trick it is then. Hopefully comprehensible.
Grrr, this thread
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arbitrarity
I am entertained. Did you derive why I asked Fax, and then jump to my concept?
Nope, even better. I thought of your concept myself, then I saw Fax post and assumed he thought of the same concept, and thought maybe I wouldn't use it after all. Then I saw that you had come to the same conclusion about Fax posting (even though he, apparently, hadn't).
:biggrin:
One way or another, though, at this point I'm not planning to enter this round of Iron Chef. Though I'll change my mind if I get struck by inspiration.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
*grumble* stupid example. Complete Arcane errata even says that text trumps examples. And that means I don't even know what the RAW is for that new magical houseruled ability. Does that mean that the two features don't stack, or does it mean that the spellcasting advancement doesn't provide caster level advancement, or that caster level advancement only occurs every other level? For example, if I multiclass, can I apply the caster level advancement to one class, and the spellcasting advancement to the other, and end up with 15 total advanced caster levels (i.e. Fighter 2/wizard 2/Sorceror 2/GSA 10 with a CL of 12 for Sorceror, and 7 for wizard, with 7'th level wizard casting and second level sorceror casting), or arrrrgh brain explodes.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
oooh... I dunno about this one...
Green Star...
you are just mean Prinny.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arbitrarity
*grumble* stupid example. Complete Arcane errata even says that text trumps examples. And that means I don't even know what the RAW is for that new magical houseruled ability. Does that mean that the two features don't stack, or does it mean that the spellcasting advancement doesn't provide caster level advancement, or that caster level advancement only occurs every other level? For example, if I multiclass, can I apply the caster level advancement to one class, and the spellcasting advancement to the other, and end up with 15 total advanced caster levels (i.e. Fighter 2/wizard 2/Sorceror 2/GSA 10 with a CL of 12 for Sorceror, and 7 for wizard, with 7'th level wizard casting and second level sorceror casting), or arrrrgh brain explodes.
To my eye, it means that you apply a caster level advancement every level, and a "Spells known/spells per day advancement" as indicated (without CL increase). The don't seem to be linked though. And I wouldn't call it a house rule, but rather a more conservative reading of one of the most long-contested points of 3.5. We should get the chairman to give a formal ruling before the competition gets too far under way though:
Is it:
1)+10 CL and +5 levels of spells known/per day, linked
2)as 1, but unlinked (applicable to different classes)
3)+10 CL and +5 (CL, spells/day, spells know), linked
4) as 3, unlinked
Incidentally, in to judge.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozymandias9
To my eye, it means that you apply a caster level advancement every level, and a "Spells known/spells per day advancement" as indicated (without CL increase). The don't seem to be linked though.
Incidentally, in to judge.
The wording is exactly the same as every other arcane casting PrC, except it lacks the clarifying "this essentially means that she adds the level of xxx to the level of some other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly". It's the same as every PrC in complete arcane. Do you want to argue Master Specialist doesn't progress caster level?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Arbitrarity
The wording is exactly the same as every other arcane casting PrC, except it lacks the clarifying "this essentially means that she adds the level of xxx to the level of some other spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day, spells known, and caster level accordingly". It's the same as every PrC in complete arcane. Do you want to argue Master Specialist doesn't progress caster level?
Edit: Actually, since I don't see that clarifying text anywhere in "Complete Arcane". And Master Specialist is "Complete Mage," which calls it "spellcasting," not "spells per day/spells known." So you could certainly make that argument for, say, Alienist.
Not that I would in general, but it's a sufficiently litigious reading to be backed up. In this case however, the goal of the competition is to show your character design skills, not to point out the flaws in 3.5 design. A conservative reading of questionable mechanics is in keeping with that goal.
Also, I edited my prior post for clarity: its certainly not the only reading, but it's one of the more conservative. And the details of this effect have been questioned since the book came out.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozymandias9
Is it:
1)+10 CL and +5 levels of spells known/per day, linked
2)as 1, but unlinked (applicable to different classes)
3)+10 CL and +5 (CL, spells/day, spells know), linked
4) as 3, unlinked
Incidentally, in to judge.
The bolded one.
To clarify a bit, every level increases caster level, but every even level does it by virtue of increasing your spellcasting. They toss the special effect on there to indicate that every odd level gives you a CL boost only, as per the example (which, again, is illegal, but it serves its purpose).
You get a CL boost to whichever class gets the spellcasting advancement, so Arbitrarity's example could end up with CL 7 for both wizard and sorcerer, with the spells per day/spells known of a 7th level wizard and 2nd level sorcerer.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Oh, so it is Green Star Adept after all!
I'm definetly in as a contestant!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Private-Prinny
To clarify a bit, every level increases caster level, but every even level does it by virtue of increasing your spellcasting. They toss the special effect on there to indicate that every odd level gives you a CL boost only, as per the example (which, again, is illegal, but it serves its purpose).
I'm not sure about that, Prinny.
Let's see Acolyte of the Skin text:
Spoiler
Show
Spells per Day/Spells Known: At each even-numbered level, an acolyte of the skin gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved
chance of turning or destroying undead, a bonus feat, and so on). If he had more than one spellcasting class before becoming an acolyte of the skin, he must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.
Now, GSA text:
Spoiler
Show
Spells per Day/Spells Known: At every even-numbered level, a Green Star adept gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (such as the bonus feat sometimes gained by a wizard). If he had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming a Green Star adept, he must decide to which class to add each level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.
As you see, it's basically the same text. By your reasoning, Acolyte of the Skin would give you extra spells known and extra spell slots but no increase in caster level. I read as GSA's gaining a total of +5 level os spells known/slots and a +10 increase in caster levels; for a total of +15 to CL over the course of 10 levels.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
As already said, I'd like to judge this one.
Look it good, cause the devil is in the details. :smallwink:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
I'll try judging.
This ought to be interesting.:smallsmile:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
I read as GSA's gaining a total of +5 level os spells known/slots and a +10 increase in caster levels; for a total of +15 to CL over the course of 10 levels
That reading, while interesting, appears to contradict the ruling of the contest's final arbiter. I would be leery of making a build based on a reading of the Class that Prinny has stated does not apply to the contest, personally.
Speaking of being leery, call my 'once bitten, twice shy' for asking: Are there any specific books that, while legal, are likely to cause any of our illustrious judges to downgrade our scores?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
I'd say go conservative because all it can really do is hurt you. Judges that don't like the stacking interpretation will hit you hard in elegance and realistically if the judge is ok with your reading it will help your power but they should apply the extra cl to the builds that don't point it out since that's how they interpret the rules. So a net loss for you.
Anyway I think I'll compete this time around.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
I would like to compete and build upon my 7th place I got last time, come on 6th OJ wants ya!
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amphetryon
That reading, while interesting, appears to contradict the ruling of the contest's final arbiter. I would be leery of making a build based on a reading of the Class that Prinny has stated does not apply to the contest, personally.
Yeah, I'm just trying to change his mind on this. My build will work mostly the same way.
Also, Complete Arcane errata even mentions that text trumps table and statblocks, so I'm even more inclined to say it is +15 CL on 10 levels. But if Prinny is set at +10 CL on 10 levels, that's okay.
EDIT: Forget it. There is an example within the very text of the ability that disallows it. I believe PrivatePrinny catched onto this before me. Can't believe no one ever mentioned this on the CharOp board back in the day... Probably because of the RAWxRAI debate always going on there, but the RAI is so clear here with even an example to go with that RAW is completly irrelevant.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
true_shinken
Can't believe no one ever mentioned this on the CharOp board back in the day...
They did. The answer is usually that "Wizard 5 can't even enter anyways, and examples are unreliable."
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Since it could be useful, as past judges, I'll give some pre-contest guideline of my criteria.
Originality: As this build expected, the most obvious way, already put together by others? If the former is someway true, is there any original addiction?
So, to say: 1- Pretty obvious entry, pretty obvious mechanic, pretty obvious feats, equipment, classes selection; 5- Totally unexpected entry, totally unexpected dynamics, totally unexpected mesh out.
Power: Does do a thing very well and has the flexibility to avoid anti-"that thing"? 1- Very poor build, not able to survive, nor fit well in a party unless greatly hepled or, as a monster, unlikely to pose a threat to a party of same level; 5 - Wizard + Incantatrix + Master of sevenfold veil? Eat my shorts!*
Use of secret ingredient: Is the secret ingredient in some way crucial to the build? If not, is it at least good as - or better than - other solutions or even linear development? 1- Not only the secret ingredient is not crucial, but it seems also a waste of levels*. 5- Hey, without the secret ingredient your PC wuold be less powerful or less elegant or less suited for the story. Moreover, you created a dynamic not reproducible if not for the secret ingredient, or at least so difficult to mimic that it would be a waste of time and resources*.
*Note that I'll not be strict with that. Does not consider everything that is not Tier 1 less than optimal in this sections. Just think: given my decision of what my entry wuold be/do, is the secret ingredient fit or it is a waste/hamper?
Elegance: This is difficult. Since I like backstory, you'll have a plus if will provide a good one. You will have a plus if the backstory matches well with the character. Use of light cheese is tolerated i mechanically works and tends to add flavour. If it seems solely added for power, you'll have a higher score in power, a lower in elegance. I don't ban any book allowed, but as usual use of flaw hits elegance, mechanical excesses hit elegance (see Seera from past Iron Chef), carving blood from stones definitely hits elegance.
1- Use of well known cheese (it hits originality too), not in line with the backstory and/or the general purpose of the build, just to improve power. Overall role and do and dont's absent 5- Wandeful base concept, very well exploited and shown up, explaination to understand the goods and bads of entry, all fitted well in the concept and backstory**.
**You don't need to write much. Few good words can be equally good.
Overall, I guess I'll go between 2 and 4, giving more or less than that to those whom deserve it
As suggestions: Green Star Adept seems good for gishes. I expect a melee, magical emproved combatant that exploits his resistences. There are a lot of more exploits, but if you're unsure, go straight.
Good luck to everybody
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ozymandias9
They did. The answer is usually that "Wizard 5 can't even enter anyways, and examples are unreliable."
But that's irrelevant within the confines of the aforementioned rule. It's within the same block of text, not within a statblock, so it is in fact part of the class rules, even if it contains an incorrect example.
Heck, I'll have to edit my handbooks because of this.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Bah, Green Star Adept. It looks like we have enough judges already, so I'll compete this go around. No promises though, I've never liked this PrC very much.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
OK, so I'll use that. 10 CLs total is fine, I just like arguing as a way to vent :smallbiggrin:
Makes me wonder what benefits I actually get from the class, but that's ok. I suppose I can do those two, though they're a bit limited.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
I really hate the +4 BAB requirement. My perfect build is still off by +1 :roy:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
true_shinken
EDIT: Forget it. There is an example within the very text of the ability that disallows it. I believe PrivatePrinny catched onto this before me. Can't believe no one ever mentioned this on the CharOp board back in the day... Probably because of the RAWxRAI debate always going on there, but the RAI is so clear here with even an example to go with that RAW is completly irrelevant.
I did catch that before I posted my response, and since text>all except errata, I made the choice that I did, with it being RAW and all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amphetryon
Speaking of being leery, call my 'once bitten, twice shy' for asking: Are there any specific books that, while legal, are likely to cause any of our illustrious judges to downgrade our scores?
Dragon Compendium springs to mind, as well as the more broken things in Savage Species. I also wouldn't blame them for marking down mixing campaign settings i.e. FR and Eberron material in the same build.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
I'll be a contestant on this one. I've got two different ideas for this build, both entirely legal, both rather interesting and useful. One is slightly more complicated than the other, but judging the previous competition showed me something about 1/2 casting progression classes that is... interesting.
also interesting to note, if you don't wish to become a construct, loose all your Con score, and all associated issues with the final level, there is a simple solution: Starmetal Dependency. You simply decline to undergo the final ritual, and you don't get the special abilities of the final level, although you still get BAB/Saves/HP/etc...
However, what this will do to both your elegance and Use of Secret Ingredient scores is on your head.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Gah. I keep looking at builds and wondering why someone wouldn't roll up a Warforged to do at least 3/4 of what they picked a GSA for...
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Why is it that I keep getting cool ideas that won't work mechanically? Renegade Mastermaker will not work with GSA, certainly not without becoming the focus of the build!
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quick Question(not relating to the contest really): How does GSA work with the Ardent?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
*.*.*.*
Quick Question(not relating to the contest really): How does GSA work with the Ardent?
Unless your DM rules that psionic/magic transparency also applies to caster/manifester levels, I don't think it works particularly well at all.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amphetryon
Unless your DM rules that psionic/magic transparency also applies to caster/manifester levels, I don't think it works particularly well at all.
Fair enough, I've seen that whole manifester=caster thing used before. Thanks for the speedy answer
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
I'm back as a competitor having missed the last Iron Chef being busy with exams.
Will be interesting considering I like to play beat-sticks or gishes, so this could be down my alley... Though I do agree, is a terrible class. Ah well, got some possibly ideas up my sleeve which might work...
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Just got the first submission in. I honestly expected another couple of days before that happened.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Private-Prinny
Just got the first submission in. I honestly expected another couple of days before that happened.
All your fault: you've announced it too much in advance (it wouldn't be such a big deal, it is just for kidding).
To all the others. Try not to ask too much and not cooperate too much. With all the chit-chat, I fear that something I considered original wouldn't be so, in the end.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ingus
To all the others. Try not to ask too much and not cooperate too much. With all the chit-chat, I fear that something I considered original wouldn't be so, in the end.
^This is correct. That's part of why speculation is against the rules of the competition. Unfortunately, there's pretty much no way to actually enforce it.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
By the by, due to the nature of GSA and it's Capstone, I will NOT be marking down on Elegance/Use of GSA if you take only 9 levels. Now, if you take 10 levels and surprise me, you'll get a higher score, but I am not penalizing specifically for taking 9 levels.
Thought it was fair in this circumstance, seeing as how level 10 of GSA is just HORRIFICALLY BAD and ruins characters.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Sounds like torture fun. I'll try to get something up.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
I'm of a similar mind-- I usually score the same for 9/10 and 10/10 anyways. If however, you have a strong use of the capstone (something I don't expect a strong use for) you'll probably be scored up for it.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
I'll be the first to admit this class isn't the strongest, but c'mon folks, the flavor of the thing is awesome and makes for a great story. I like the class :smallcool:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amphetryon
Gah. I keep looking at builds and wondering why someone wouldn't roll up a Warforged to do at least 3/4 of what they picked a GSA for...
Warforged GSA? :smalltongue:
No, I have no idea if that's even allowed
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
As far as I can tell it there's nothing against it, but the GSA capstone specifically calls out all the things you lose - like your con score - so you'd lose all the benefits of being a warforged anyway.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
I would very much like to be a contestant for this Iron Chef. It'll be my first time, so I'm totally ignorant of submission method. I already have a skeleton of the build done, so it should be complete in a couple days.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
I'm competing. I already have the entire build, including skills and spell list done. Just adding in my thesis on synergy and level break analysis. Yay!
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Random topic of judging, I've been seeing this a lot in previous competitions:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Akal Saris
Originality: 3. It’s an unexpected build, but I’ve seen shock trooper/tripping builds so often that I sometimes forget there are melees out there who don’t take that path.
Not meaning any offense to Mr. Saris at all, but it bothers me that judges count off points because someone gets reach and Improved Trip. To me, this is like a Wizard preparing Fly. Why wouldn't you use the staples of being effective? This is particularly bad because, unless you're initiating maneuvers, melee combat really doesn't have many options while mages have thousands of spells to choose from. I feel like any build with a good UMD check deserves more points off than this.
I don't really know what I'm wanting by pointing this out. Is this something we can ease up on in future competitions? Is this something that should be looked at insofar as judging criteria? Is there a good counterpoint as to why these methods should be penalized?
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pechvarry
Not meaning any offense to Mr. Saris at all, but it bothers me that judges count off points because someone gets reach and Improved Trip. To me, this is like a Wizard preparing Fly. Why wouldn't you use the staples of being effective? This is particularly bad because, unless you're initiating maneuvers, melee combat really doesn't have many options while mages have thousands of spells to choose from. I feel like any build with a good UMD check deserves more points off than this.
I don't really know what I'm wanting by pointing this out. Is this something we can ease up on in future competitions? Is this something that should be looked at insofar as judging criteria? Is there a good counterpoint as to why these methods should be penalized?
If the best build you can make involves using the staples, then you aren't being very original. The build might be fine in many other respects, but by its very nature the category of originality requires you to blaze your own trail.
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Navigator
I would very much like to be a contestant for this Iron Chef. It'll be my first time, so I'm totally ignorant of submission method. I already have a skeleton of the build done, so it should be complete in a couple days.
The introduction to this thread has a recap of all the former contests. You can look at them to inspire yourself on how to post (strongly suggested, also to confront with overall quality).
If you need some specific help, don't exitate and ask
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pechvarry
I don't really know what I'm wanting by pointing this out. Is this something we can ease up on in future competitions? Is this something that should be looked at insofar as judging criteria? Is there a good counterpoint as to why these methods should be penalized?
No, we shouldn't stop low-scoring that. See, I've nothing against the originals, the basics, the old standbys. To use the cooking analogy, they're the famous basic flavors, cumin and thyme and paprika, the good old boys, the standards. This isn't about them, though.
This is about ORIGINALITY. If the best thing you can serve me is the old standbys, well, it'll taste ok, but it's not ORIGINAL. Instead of mustard, make me a dressing out of pine nuts (had this IRL, was amazing), make me a spicy and tart ketchup out of orange tomatoes, make me something fresh and NEW. Even if it's risky, well, try it! I'll score you high in originality, and hey, it might come out well. :smallwink:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arguskos
Instead of mustard, make me a dressing out of pine nuts (had this IRL, was amazing), make me a spicy and tart ketchup out of orange tomatoes, make me something fresh and NEW. Even if it's risky, well, try it! I'll score you high in originality, and hey, it might come out well. :smallwink:
The trouble with GSA is it has as much spice as plain tofu... :smallyuk:
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
IMHO, there are three useful abilities you can wring unique tricks out of. One of them is minor, and the other two are potentially incredible but unlikely to fly, since they rely on specific readings, and/or are well known cheese, and thus unoriginal.
AHA. Found a good one :smallbiggrin: Makes it all worthwhile. Aaaand fails. Curse you, balance!
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
My entry is submitted. I wonder if anyone else came up with the same devious synergy trick I came up with? In the immortal words of every TV, movie, and comic book BBEG ever...Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amphetryon
The trouble with GSA is it has as much spice as plain tofu... :smallyuk:
...Tofu is one of the best base foods in existence. The fact that it's bland means that every single thing you add can be tasted with ease. Spice well, gentlemen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Keld Denar
My entry is submitted. I wonder if anyone else came up with the same devious synergy trick I came up with? In the immortal words of every TV, movie, and comic book BBEG ever...Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
Power: 0. :smalltongue: