Quote Originally Posted by Dogmantra View Post
Don't diss man, it's not even warded.

(joking aside it is still staggering how many times I've jokingly suggested Baron then we've taken it completely uncontested)
Yeah, it's one thing to go for a Baron in an even or a negative position when you have a relatively good chance of pulling it off and good warning if enemy is coming and another to keep trying to force Baron when you're far ahead and the only way you can lose is by giving the enemy team Baron.

The latter is what I'm talking about; I had one night where I encountered a Barontard and he lost his team every game. Every game his team was leading, he tried to force Baron and got his team aced and lost Baron and the game. 3 games in a row, twice on enemy team, once on mine. I've encountered other members of the same breed.

Quote Originally Posted by PEACH View Post
Again, my point is that it's all relative. At the point where most people are fairly capable of filling in the meta, understand how to last hit and how to pull, understand that dragon and baron are important and to follow the jungler to do so (granted, I jungle, so my dragon aggressiveness may be rubbing off there), I'd generally consider them good; they are, without a doubt, significantly above average, being, well, one in 10.

Also, from when I played up through 1400, I don't see any of the things you listed actually being true. Supports warded bot every game (top was, admittedly, spotty), people were aware of what was going on in the jungle, I never actually saw Eve or Twitch (pun not intended), but I doubt they'd be good, and I also never saw snowballs.
Supports ward, sure, but top, mid and jungle are spotty at it at best. Hell, many people think it's the support's job to ward the whole map (without even thinking about the problems posed by support leaving the bot for that long to go ward near top part of the river or Baron)!

By snowballs I'm referring to the fact that it's still very, very easy for an extremely solid laner to just go 20-0 in laning and carry the game alone. That is to say, 1400s still tend to have enough holes in their basic gameplay that more skilled players with even lane match-ups can capitalize on those mistakes and destroy people incredibly hard.

Twitch...try it for yourself, at worst you'll make the enemy feed you billion gold in form of Vision Wards you kill with your Oracle's. They very rarely try to aggressively control your jungle and make your life a living hell like they should. Eve not so much but even she can be a terror if your team doesn't troll you too hard. Jungle awareness, I dunno what to say.

In my experience, at least one lane always fails to immediately collapse upon counterjungler. The percentage gets better if you have time to ping but even then some people just go about their merry way in 1400s.