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    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Finland
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    Default Re: Archers vs outsiders split from unfairly powerful monsters

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    Very good. If you prefer this, what would you throw away from the wizard build to pay for it WBL-wise?
    Don't have the time to do optimization of this and see which is the best equipment but far as I see, you could probably cull some of the fat from the equipment:

    Necklace of Adaptation: 9K - Fine, though Ioun Stone does have the advantage of actually not needing air to survive making the caster immune to many attacks. Then again, this is only needed for a non-modified body.
    Str+6, Dex+6, Con+6, Int+6 Wis+4: 160K - Probably okay, would have to evaluate the value of the Strength and the Wis bonuses compared to using buffing spells. Potentially cullable, depending on what we're getting instead.
    Int+5(inherent),Dex+1(Inherent),Con+1(Inherent): 192.5K - Again, the inherent +1 Con is considerable - couldn't we use Wish instead to earn non-Int ones?
    Natural Armor+2: 8K - Fineish, but a source of Barkskin, such as a Simulacrum might be able to incidentally cover this one
    Mithril Buckler+3: 10K - Hmm, Simulacrum with Cleric-casting could potentially get you Magic Vestment for this instead
    Greater Rod of Extend: 24.5K - Fine
    Spiked Gauntlet+1+Defending: 8K - Fine if we play the AC game
    Boots of Speed: 12K - While Haste is available, I see what you're going for here. If we had a Rod of Lesser Quicken or a Quickened Haste or two prepared, the value of this goes down
    Robe of Archmagi: 75K - The weakest item on the list, it's there basically for +2 spell penetration, but 75k for that and +4 Resistance and +1 Armor is a lot - SR18 isn't worth mentioning
    Luckstone: 20K - This is a tad inefficient with Luckblade, but the Initiative bonus is kinda nice.
    Orange (caster level+1), Pale Green(Competence+1), Dusty Rose(AC+1), Dark Blue(Alertness) Ioun Stones: 75K - Dark Blue is waste, you get Alertness from familiar proximity. Dusty Rose has to have its value evaluated based on how much we care about AC. The other two are nice
    Eyes of Eagle: 2.5K - I'm not certain Spot investment is worth that much but then again, this is a minor enough investment. No strong opinion
    Luckblade 22.5K - Yeah, definitely.
    Ring of Freedom+Deflect+4: 72K - We could get Deflection from another source such as Magic Circle against... though this is +2 higher. Freedom is a definite.
    Ring of Evasion: 25K - Potentially worthwhile but then again, do we really fear halved AOE damage that much? It's a useful effect but I'm not convinced HP damage is a big enough problem particularly with access to Resist Energy.
    Permanency Arcane Sight 9.05K - Should we count the wealth cost of things we're paying with XP and earning back as we go?
    Permanency See Invisibility 6.55K - See above
    Permanency Heightened Symbol of Insanity 26.55K (On buckler) - See above

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    As far as I know, there is no savage progression for Solars, but the existing savage progressions strongly suggest that all special abilities and stat bonuses are only acquired at full HD with about half acquired at half HD.
    Again, there's no proviso for lower HD versions of creatures having less SLAs; many monsters don't have LA either but that's a part of the savage progression. Savage progressions aren't used by monsters, only by PCs as a workaround to play creatures that would be too powerful at any given level. Metagame constructs of sorts. Halving caster level or something has no proviso either; higher HD versions of the same creature have the same CL for SLAs so the same should apply to lower HD ones as well.

    We could also use Animate Object from Ravid + Permanency to create Gargantuan Objects; they have some interesting properties like the Trample that could be used to clean up trash.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2017-10-05 at 05:04 AM.
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