Batman's Bane: The Joker

[ShneekeyTheLost]

The problem is that the 'core' components of the Batman's repertoire are general-purpose spells. No matter how good your puppet show is, it's not going to convince him to pass over those. Disintegrate, say, is almost always useful. How are you going to concoct a situation to negate the basics like...

* Disintegrate?
* Battlefield alteration?
* Teleportation magics?
* Buffs?

Buffs? Easy. Greater Dispel Magic. Teleportation magics? Dimension Lock. Battlefield Alteration? Greater Dispel Magic. Disintegrate? Well, you got to let Batman Wizard do SOMETHING. Besides, if all he's found himself able to do is disintegrate things, then you've scaled his power down to something that the rest of the players haven't been overshadowed by.

Likewise, no matter how obvious it is that they're facing one particular threat, any Batman wizard who is not stupid (and, hey, ~32 int) is going to prepare multiple spells targeting every save. This is just because, in your typical encounter, you generally won't have the chance to cast every single spell -- devoting some to alternative dangers is therefore always worthwhile. No matter how many dumb, low-will-save high-con-save brutes you show him in your puppet show, he's still going to prepare at least a few spells like Disintegrate, Finger of Death, etc. No matter how many undead he sees in your puppet show, he's still likely to have at least a few spells like Enervation. Etc.

The whole point of being Batman is that you're prepared for everything. Divinations help, but trying to trick them into not preparing the basic spells + a few save-or-die/sucks against every save is a lost cause. That's what makes them Batman in the first place.

Also note that this trick may work... once. After that, all future divinations will be taken as strictly advisory; your Batman will prepare against them a bit, but will always be sure to have their general-purpose spells ready, too.

And in the end, Batman wizards just aren't as dependent on divinations as you seem to think. They could throw up their hands, say "Fine, no more using divinations to choose my spells," and they'd still be more powerful than almost any non-fullcaster.

Then I've done my job. The Batman Wizard is no longer completely overshadowing the rest of the group. Powerful, yes. But not so "I win on the first round, and the rest of the party can make coffee" powerful.

I'm not disputing that this build could cause more problems for him than usual, but that's because it's a full caster who abuses diplomacy, not because of any of the other fancy tricks. Seriously, imagine trying to take on this guy without a full caster of your own -- assuming he goes all out. Good luck with that.

Actually, non-full casters won't have too many problems with him either... assuming they can ever find the Joker. The problem is that he keeps them too wrapped up running around chasing shadows and mirrors.

Ultimately, what I'm trying to do is make Batman Wizard take his four daily encounters and make him start blowing a lot more spells than he's used to.

Most of the time, Batman Wizard can prepare exactly the right spell for exactly the right situation, and whenever he gets hurting, can cast MMM and recover spells, regardless of how many foes may be outside.

Joker Bard is the counter to that. He keeps the time pressure on Batman, keeps the carrot dangling just a little bit out of reach. They'll beat every trap Joker can throw at them, of course. That's the point. Remember, this is the BBEG, the DM's 'hero' unit. He's supposed to loose. He's just supposed to level the playing field a bit and let the rest of the party be more useful than a typical Unseen Servant spell.

Fluffwise a great idea, plus also with good tactical ideas. Probably the batman world set to a fantasy campaign would be that instead of technical stuff, batman and joker would use magic.
It's debatable whether batman would really be a wizard, but for the joker the bard class would really fit nicely in case the batman is a wizard.
In case that the original idea of the comic is followed in that batman has no superpowers (neither does the joker), then of course it would be better to have both be impersonated by non-caster classes with UMD (access to magical, instead of mechanical devices).

In that case, a martial class for batman would be fitting, and a rogue would be nice for the Joker (both bluff AND UMD and all that).
But the bard's ability to use perform-comedy (or oratory) as bardic music is really neat.

Thank you, but I think you may have missed the other reference. Remember TLN's "Wizard's guide to being Batman"? That is what this is designed to challenge.

Always remember, encounters run at the power of Plot. Just because this build can curb stomp any non-batman-esque build, doesn't mean he HAS to. If the party doesn't have a Batman Wizard, then the Joker Bard gets scaled back, some of the tactics are not used, and he still provides a viable challenge.