Warhammer 40k -II- Tactics for the Tactics God

[Winterwind]

Also, Winterwind, the codex comes out it 3 days, not in a month. (Shoot the command squads, for god sake, shoot the command squads.)

I guess it comes out earlier over there, then; here in Germany it is scheduled for May.

[Bryn]

GW site says 2 May. Shame - I wish it was coming out in 3 days

[Winterwind]

Yeah, 2nd May is what I heard here, too. Plus, I had asked one of the people working at our local Games Workshop when it would come out (because I wanted to make sure it came out in time for the birthday of a friend whom I want to drag into the clutches of this hobby as well ), and he told me May.

[onasuma]

GW site says 2 May. Shame - I wish it was coming out in 3 days

Well, Im going to a release party for it at my local on saturday. So yeah, I hope its actually coming out.

Also, SolkaTruesilver, 25 points but it only works until I fail one save, then I revert to my 5+ standard. Also, conscripts probably arent a good idea given that the squad pumps out 38 WS5/6 a turn. All of which would wound you on a 3 or 2 with no saves. And thats before you get a hit in.

[Tren]

Must be a costly item. Quite high value of point kill, I'd take?

Effectively, if I spam my constripts at it with a Commissar, that unit would be neutralised for the whole battle being able to do nothing?

Shadowfield goes for either 20 or 25pts, but has the downside of disappearing after you fail your first save, leaving your expensive Lord with their crappy 5+ armor save.

As for conscript spam, it might slow them down for a round or two but that'd probably be it. The archon, and especially with an incubi retinue, will do a lot of damage to the squad which just makes your No Retreat casualties all the worse. And since the Incubi are WS5 the conscripts are only hitting the squad on 5's, which just makes it all the less likely they'll do any serious damage back.

edit: ninja!

[JMobius]

Must be a costly item. Quite high value of point kill, I'd take?

Effectively, if I spam my constripts at it with a Commissar, that unit would be neutralised for the whole battle being able to do nothing?

Shadowfield is my bane. 25 points, one per army, the model gains a 2+ invulnerable save... until he rolls a 1 to save, at which point it pops.

Needless to say, the thing is balanced only in the average case. I've seen my friend the DE player shrug off 24 wounds throughout one game...

[Oracle_Hunter]

Shadowfield is my bane. 25 points, one per army, the model gains a 2+ invulnerable save... until he rolls a 1 to save, at which point it pops.

Needless to say, the thing is balanced only in the average case. I've seen my friend the DE player shrug off 24 wounds throughout one game...

Finally, something that has "lots of lasguns" as the proper counter

[onasuma]

Finally, something that has "lots of lasguns" as the proper counter

Nope, not this time. They're always in raiders. I laugh at your gun that cant even glance a raiders rear.

[Oracle_Hunter]

Nope, not this time. They're always in raiders. I laugh at your gun that cant even glance a raiders rear.

Well, that's why the Emperor gave us Plasma Guns - presuming that the Shadow Field doesn't also protect the Raider

[JMobius]

Nope, the Shadow Field only affects the Archon model. Given that the Raider is Fast, combined with giving it the Scaling Nets upgrade (IIRC), it's not impossible for the Raider to get the Archon into assault from outside the plasma gun's range.

[onasuma]

I dont understand why scaling nets make any difference here. care to explain?

[Altima]

It doesn't.

Raiders move 12 inches, turn 2 inches, departs archon (with retinue, of course) 2 inches, then assault six inches. Weee, twenty two inch assault! The's the raider upgrade that makes all targeting it act as if the raider is six more inches away, so yeah, that's out of range.

It could be worse. Could be Wyches with 12+2+2+d6+6(12) inch assault. Those hurt.

Stupid old Dark Eldar.

[MorhgorRB]

Shadowfield goes for either 20 or 25pts, but has the downside of disappearing after you fail your first save, leaving your expensive Lord with their crappy 5+ armor save.

As for conscript spam, it might slow them down for a round or two but that'd probably be it. The archon, and especially with an incubi retinue, will do a lot of damage to the squad which just makes your No Retreat casualties all the worse. And since the Incubi are WS5 the conscripts are only hitting the squad on 5's, which just makes it all the less likely they'll do any serious damage back.

edit: ninja!

4's. The IG would hit on 4's. Sad but true

[Erloas]

4's. The IG would hit on 4's. Sad but true

Normal guard, being WS3 would need 4s to hit, but conscripts are WS2 and WS2 vs WS5 needs 5s to hit. (double WS+1 for the 5+ to hit).

[onasuma]

So, back to list help. Next tuesday I have a game against someone 4 years older than myself, been playing for that much longer than I as well. Its 1500 points, Chaos marines vs Deldar. The list I have is as follows:

Spoiler

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HQ:

Archon agoniser, cc weapon, combat drugs, shadow field, (131)
6 incubi,
2 splinter cannon warriors (36)
Raider (55)

Haemonculus, scissorhands, trophy rack combat drugs, (60)

Haemonculus, destructor, vexanthrope (50)

Eliets:

5 mandrakes (75)

10 grotesques (150)

10 wyches, wych weapons, shredder (140)

Troops:

9 warriors, sybarite, splinter cannon, blaster, agoniser, cc weapon (123)
Raider (55)

15 warriors, 2 splinter cannons, blaster (145)

Fast attack:

3 jetbikes, succubus, punisher, tormentor helm.

Heavy support:

Talos (100).

Ravanger, 2 disintergrators, (115)

Total 1500

From the looks of his standard army, he doesnt have much in the way of tanks, but I couldnt really gleen anything else from the list, given that I was playing at the same time as him, just two tables away.

Anyhow, advise.

[Oslecamo]

4's. The IG would hit on 4's. Sad but true

Muahahaha, fear the guard wich can kill powered armored enemies and space elves with punches!(since technically speacking they don't have close combat weapons)

[Copper8642]

I've been thinking about the Culexus's Assassin's Animus Speculum. It says it gains another shot for every psyker in 12" of him. Supposedly, every Grey Knight and every Eldar is a psyker. When surrounded by Grey Knights and/or Eldar, would he be able to fire off shots like nobody's business?

For the record, is the new Imperial Guard's tank with 20 shots per round even remotely... I don't know, fair or fluffy? Like, being able to pump out shots by with 45 Guardsmen or Terminators with Assault Cannons or a crazy Eldar weapon is one thing. An Imperial Guard tank completely outdoing every gun ever in shot volume... it seems a bit... off.

Oh, and a third random question. Would it be considered bad tact to fill up my elite spots with stuff other than Stormtroopers, then fill two of my Troop choices with "allied" Inquisitorial Stormtroopers. Not that it'd be intelligent to lose so much of the Horde advantage, but still.

[grinner666]

So, back to list help. Next tuesday I have a game against someone 4 years older than myself, been playing for that much longer than I as well. Its 1500 points, Chaos marines vs Deldar. The list I have is as follows:

Spoiler

Show

HQ:

Archon agoniser, cc weapon, combat drugs, shadow field, (131)
6 incubi,
2 splinter cannon warriors (36)
Raider (55)

Haemonculus, scissorhands, trophy rack combat drugs, (60)

Haemonculus, destructor, vexanthrope (50)

Eliets:

5 mandrakes (75)

10 grotesques (150)

10 wyches, wych weapons, shredder (140)

Troops:

9 warriors, sybarite, splinter cannon, blaster, agoniser, cc weapon (123)
Raider (55)

15 warriors, 2 splinter cannons, blaster (145)

Fast attack:

3 jetbikes, succubus, punisher, tormentor helm.

Heavy support:

Talos (100).

Ravanger, 2 disintergrators, (115)

Total 1500

From the looks of his standard army, he doesnt have much in the way of tanks, but I couldnt really gleen anything else from the list, given that I was playing at the same time as him, just two tables away.

Anyhow, advise.

Why do you keep giving your leaders (Archon, Sybarite) an agoniser and cc weapon? A splinter pistol would act as a cc weapon in the assault, and allow one more ranged attack before launching the assault.

Also you might want to consider digging up the points somewhere to give your Wyches a Raider, or giving them one of the Raiders already in your force; they've got an even worse save than the standard Warrior does, if I'm not entirely mistaken.



Other than that and your insistence on taking Mandrakes (), I can't really see anything to criticize . . . so long as you're right and he hasn't got a lot of tanks.

[Oslecamo]

For the record, is the new Imperial Guard's tank with 20 shots per round even remotely... I don't know, fair or fluffy? Like, being able to pump out shots by with 45 Guardsmen or Terminators with Assault Cannons or a crazy Eldar weapon is one thing. An Imperial Guard tank completely outdoing every gun ever in shot volume... it seems a bit... off.

How isn't that fluffy for guard? They clearly share with the orks the principle of MORE DAKKA! Get enough mens shooting weack weapons in the field of battle and you'll eventually end up killing something in the enemy side.

If anyone would design a tank to shoot like mad it would be either the guard or the orks. And well the orks get the close combat big number of attacks, so the guard gets the MORE DAKKA tank to make up for it.

[Copper8642]

I know. It's just that previously, six shots was a lot. Suddenly, a tank with 20 shots shows up. Seems extreme.

[Erloas]

For the record, is the new Imperial Guard's tank with 20 shots per round even remotely... I don't know, fair or fluffy? Like, being able to pump out shots by with 45 Guardsmen or Terminators with Assault Cannons or a crazy Eldar weapon is one thing. An Imperial Guard tank completely outdoing every gun ever in shot volume... it seems a bit... off.

Considering that its str5 and AP- and 24" range (according to the rumors) it seems more then reasonable.
In terms of shot power, it is the weakest primary weapon I've seen on a tank. It relies on a large number of shots for making up for each shot being weak, which is pretty much exactly how lasguns are designed.

In terms of killing power when I calculated it up before it was pretty much the same as what 10 marines with bolters in rapid fire range, or 10 dire avengers, could do. Considering that the rumors have it as a bit more expensive then a unit of marines and a lot more expensive then a unit of dire avengers, and that it can be keep from shooting at all fairly easily, I don't see it as being a problem. It has a lot of shots, but its going to miss a fair amount and everything will get a save from it.

Its not like we don't see other vehicles with 8-12 shots with more powerful weapons, its just that it is usually from several different weapons rather then a single weapon, which in practical terms doesn't make too much of a difference. It might be a problem depending on what else the vehicle is capable of taking.

Muahahaha, fear the guard wich can kill powered armored enemies and space elves with punches!(since technically speacking they don't have close combat weapons)

Actually it is assumed they are using bayonets on their weapons, or wielding their lasguns like clubs, rather then just punching them. So its more like killing guys in power armor with a baseball bat.

[onasuma]

Why do you keep giving your leaders (Archon, Sybarite) an agoniser and cc weapon? A splinter pistol would act as a cc weapon in the assault, and allow one more ranged attack before launching the assault.

Also you might want to consider digging up the points somewhere to give your Wyches a Raider, or giving them one of the Raiders already in your force; they've got an even worse save than the standard Warrior does, if I'm not entirely mistaken.



Other than that and your insistence on taking Mandrakes (), I can't really see anything to criticize . . . so long as you're right and he hasn't got a lot of tanks.

Its moral reasons. I dont need dakka to kill you, just my big ass claw. (but yeah, I guess you're right)

No raider model for the wyches, so they'll just hide behind the grotesques and advance slowly. Eventually, they will have one, but not yet.

Mandrakes are awesome. [/post]

[hamishspence]

strictly no, only things with at least 1 psychic power, are psykers.

Grey Knights- only characters. Maybe termie squad leaders, depending on your interpretation.

Eldar- Warlocks, Farseers, Harlequin Shadowseers.

the real kicker is Tyranid Warriors- all have the "synapse creature" psychic power (no test needed to cast, but it is a power). So- 1 culexus vs 1 large Warrior squad (or 1 large Warlock squad) means a lot of shots.

[Copper8642]

But your own allied units count towards the limit, right? You are lowering your own units leadership scores by keeping them in close range of your assassin, but with the psyker squads supposedly coming with the new Imperial Guard Codex... you could have a lot of shots coming from a pretty powerful gun, at the loss of having a pretty crappy unit of psykers.

[hamishspence]

good point- I checked and it simply says "every psyker within 12 inches". Nice idea.

I'm wondering what the "primaris psyker" will be like- last time I saw one of those was in a 2nd ed battle report.

[grinner666]

Its moral reasons. I dont need dakka to kill you, just my big ass claw. (but yeah, I guess you're right)

No raider model for the wyches, so they'll just hide behind the grotesques and advance slowly. Eventually, they will have one, but not yet.

Mandrakes are awesome. [/post]

Actually, if they're not taking a Raider they should hide behind the Grotesques and advance quickly. Run with them and the Grotesques every turn, at the very least until they are within the 12" range of their pistols and shredder. Then have both units charge. Chaos and death (or death of Chaos) should ensue.



Which Haemonculus are you going to send with the Grotesques? And what are you going to do with the other one?

[onasuma]

Actually, if they're not taking a Raider they should hide behind the Grotesques and advance quickly. Run with them and the Grotesques every turn, at the very least until they are within the 12" range of their pistols and shredder. Then have both units charge. Chaos and death (or death of Chaos) should ensue.



Which Haemonculus are you going to send with the Grotesques? And what are you going to do with the other one?

Ah, I forgot grotesques could run now. Yeah, that'll be happening.

Jay goes with the grots and Edward goes in the raider squad. More pun names Im afraid... Jay Hunter was a super hero called the destructor and Edward sissorhands is pretty well known.

[grinner666]

Ah, I forgot grotesques could run now. Yeah, that'll be happening.

Jay goes with the grots and Edward goes in the raider squad. More pun names Im afraid... Jay Hunter was a super hero called the destructor and Edward sissorhands is pretty well known.

The way you name your leaders is a crime. They feel like an icepick to the brain.





I still suggest placing your Wyches in the Raider now assigned to a Raider Squad and turning that into a Warrior Squad. Unless you've got them armed with pistols and hand weapons as opposed to Splinter Rifles, they are going to be much better at shooting than the Wyches are, which means they will at least be of SOME use as an infantry unit.

The Wyches, on the other hand, are pretty useless at range, but would be awesome at double-teaming a squad along with your Archon & company.

[onasuma]

The way you name your leaders is a crime. They feel like an icepick to the brain.





I still suggest placing your Wyches in the Raider now assigned to a Raider Squad and turning that into a Warrior Squad. Unless you've got them armed with pistols and hand weapons as opposed to Splinter Rifles, they are going to be much better at shooting than the Wyches are, which means they will at least be of SOME use as an infantry unit.

The Wyches, on the other hand, are pretty useless at range, but would be awesome at double-teaming a squad along with your Archon & company.

We can arm warriors with CC weapon and pistol? Since when?

[Eldan]

I'm in a game of Vassal40k against a friend, we are both using unconventional armies. I'm using an army consisting entirely of wraithguard, he ditched his masses of suits for fire warriors. We are in turn 3, and the field looks like this:

Spoiler

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I just thought this picture is interesting enough to be posted here. He calls his army the "IG Tau".