Relationship Woes and Advice, The Seventh Saga

[Zeful]

So my girlfriend and I are really, really close. The relationship is steady, we're happy with each other. Problem is this: we're still in high school, and she doesn't really want people prying, so no one really knows that we're officially an item. Because of this, guys keep asking her out. She declines, but occasionally I feel like ripping my hair out. I'm not normally a jealous person, but this is pushing it.

Try talking to her about it. Tell her how other men asking her out makes you feel. Try to think of a compromise between "An Item" and your current situation.

Heck you could also start asking her out yourself at school. After all your not supposed to be an "item" there.

[Shadowbane]

Now that's an idea.

She also does this thing where she tells me about all the guys that hit on her. There are a lot. She's a very attractive young lady with a wonderful personality. Apparently about sixty other guys think the same thing.

Now, my best friend (a young lady) says that she's telling me that to make sure she's got a grip on me. I'm not sure. This is a tad annoying, and I've said so in polite terms. Thoughts?

[Quincunx]

(applauds Zeful)

It'll be much harder for her to be a male-attention. . .attention. . .is there a pre-existing euphemism for that phrase? I'm blanking. . .much harder for her to delight in no-strings-attached attention after that. Mind you, what you've got now is not a bad compromise between trolling and faithfulness, but if you're not happy, there's not much reason to keep on compromising is there?

[The Rose Dragon]

It'll be much harder for her to be a male-attention. . .attention. . .is there a pre-existing euphemism for that phrase?

Stud magnet.

[Shadowbane]

Stud magnet is a good term.

Anyway, I don't know. At this point I think I'm going to have a chat with her, to ask her to be honest to guys that ask her out. Instead of saying "I'm not interested." add "I'm with someone at this time." It's fair to all sides. It doesn't leave them hanging, she's not lying (thank god) and I get to be a little less annoyed about the two or three ask-outs a day.

What do you all think? I don't want to be the controlling type, but at the same time I don't like having to watch her get asked out and then lie in her answer all the time.

[Felixaar]

Shadowbane, if you're not happy about something in a relationship you need to change it. I think your current plan is a very good one. Also, non-related: I love your avatar.

Zeful the best advice I can give is just to go out and go to places on a regular basis. Do you have a job, by any chance? Most of my friends were workmates.

[Shadowbane]

Thanks for the help! I'm going to talk to her about it tonight, see what happens.

And I'm glad you like the avvy. XD

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Skywalker: Good times man.

Shadowbane: It's good that you're going to talk about it, and there is nothing wrong with you reacting the way you are. In a situation like this, you are in a bit of a crappy position. Don't let me pour poison into your ear... -but the way things are currently make it REAL easy for her to drop you for another without looking like the badguy, whereas you reacting poorly makes it look like you're an obsessive nutter. Your emotional response is the back of your head trying to warn the front of it of potential doom.

I do not know you or your girl from Adam and I am not accusing her of foul play. I'm just saying that the position she's putting you in only benefits her at your emotional expense. If she really gives a rat's posterior about your happiness, she'll deal with the prodding questions instead of enjoying the attention given to her by guys who aren't you.

[Zeful]

What do you all think? I don't want to be the controlling type, but at the same time I don't like having to watch her get asked out and then lie in her answer all the time.

It's a good idea, and tell her that you don't want to control her, it'll be a plus. You might even want to ask to see if she has any ideas to quell the green-eyed beast.

Zeful the best advice I can give is just to go out and go to places on a regular basis. Do you have a job, by any chance? Most of my friends were workmates.

I work with my dad, so my coworkers are almost twice my age. And there are only three of them.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Zeful: What do you do for kicks? Finding friends often happens when taking part in an activity of mutual interest.

[Shadowbane]

Thanks Hadrian. It's good to know.

Actually, this relationship so far has been really steady. We're honest with each other, and always try to compromise. I feel confident we can do that with this as well.

[Syka]

I get hit on a fair amount since I work in customer service, and even when I wasn't I had people hit on me- including those who knew I was in some form of relationship. In my current relationship, I tell my boyfriend when it happens and he gets an ego boost/kick out of it.

She might think you like knowing that you have some desirable. I don't think it's unfair for you to want her to let them know she is taken even if they don't know by whom, but also know it's not an automatic blackmark that she's keeping it on the downlow. When I began dating my boyfriend I regretted letting a few of my friends know because they were annoying as Hades about it.

Pocketa, DTMFA. Seriously. Why is this even a question?

[Shadowbane]

Thanks. I never thought of the desirable thing. Always good to get a new view on things!

[Zeful]

Zeful: What do you do for kicks? Finding friends often happens when taking part in an activity of mutual interest.

Not much actually, I tried socializing before, but no one noticed me. So I just gave up.

[xPANCAKEx]

Shadowbane -

its a bit of a catch 22. If she doesn't tell you, then it can come across as something going on behind your back. And if she does tell you, you may get jealous.

she's chosen the latter, so i suppose it depends on the tone in how she tells you about the other guys

if its all very matter of fact, or even cringe worthy (ie: "yeah, this guy was trying it on.... urgh"), then you've got nothin to worry about. Shes just keepin you in the loop so that if you ever did hear things like "omg, brian was totally lyke hittin on her the other day", you won't think "hang on a minute, why didn't she think i'd trust her, and kept it from me"

on the other hand, if shes taking the throwing-it-in-your face approach "another admirer, arn't i great, you're lucky to have me" ... then i'd be concerned. That kinda thing is an attenion game, and needs to be nipped in the butt asap.

i can understand being a private person - but i'd be interested in what she says when she turns them down, and also if she encourages their attention in the first place. Do any of your friends know you're seeing each other or is it kept very much on the downlow

[Shadowbane]

Zeful, Don't. :) You just need to find the right person. Find something that interests you, whether it be music, sports, literary criticism, or beer. Just think about what you like, and go out and enjoy it. I'd be surprised if you met no one like that.

@Above: She doesn't throw it in my face. It's more the cringe type. She totally thinks I'm too good for her. :(

Our closest mutual friends know. The biggest issue is one particularly tenacious dude who doesn't believe 'em.

[averagejoe]

Not much actually, I tried socializing before, but no one noticed me. So I just gave up.

Well, as someone for whom being social has never come natural, I will say that this sort of thing isn't easy. Being noticed and being able to put yourself out there are both things that take a lot of hard work. There really isn't anything you can do to get around this, no easy fix. There's nothing you can do but keep trying. Eventually you'll find worthwhile people who like you.

On being noticed: this is something that you have to do for yourself. People are not, for the most part, going to want to go up and talk to you if you do nothing to warrant such attention. The problem is that putting yourself out there is difficult, even if you're used to it. It will probably be something that you will constantly struggle with, no matter what happens. You won't really learn it at all, however, without trial and error. It's really the only way.

[xPANCAKEx]

Zeful - you mentioned one supposed "touch happy" place? can you clarify/elaborate what you mean by that

unless you're completely contact phobic, then as long as you can bare other people with good grace you'll be fine. People don't get offended if you don't act the same way as long as you're polite about it. They have their way, and you have yours

Our closest mutual friends know. The biggest issue is one particularly tenacious dude who doesn't believe 'em.

maybe it will have to be a case of your girlfriend telling him herself, let him down gently (she doesn't have to reveal who shes seeing if she doesn;t want to, just that shes seeing someone). If the cats already out of the bag with regards to him knowing then it won't cause any further harm by her confirming it. Infact, by neither confirming/denying it, it may infact fuel speculation

[Shadowbane]

She has too. I've even talked to the guy, but I feel she should let him down gently herself. If it comes from her mouth, it's final. He's a good guy. He deserves that much.

[Silence]

Why is it that every time I fall in love, it's with someone I can't have. First time, she's on a different continent. Second time, it's with someone who can barely stand me. Third time, she's incredibly antisocial and impossible to get at, partially due to the fact that she lives two hours away....

I dunno, I'm just angry about it. Call it teen angst, call it stupidity, call it what you will.

I want a relationship in my life. I want someone I can trust, I can talk to, someone I can love freely, but I can't see how. I've fallen in love three times in my life, and each time I had to put it away. The feelings die, painfully and slowly, but they do die.

My question is, what do I do? Just wait? Give up? Settle for, and try to date, someone who I don't respect or love as much as the others?

I'm so confused about my feelings. I need someone, maybe not even a "relationship" (although that would be great). Maybe just a friend, but I can't find one. Damn, life is hard. I think we can all agree on that.

[Pocketa]

I got reverse Gable'd at 5

There have been so many since then that they ceased being so important. I tend to think about the next one more than the last one But CA I would count it anyway. Who cares?

Pocketa I don't think you're being abused but you should break up with the douche anyway. I would've let him walk his 20 blocks. Who walks 20 blocks for anything?

It's not the walking at all, it's the saying mean things to me and trying to ruin my self esteem, relationships with others, getting jealous because all my friends are guys, etc.

And I can walk 20 blocks. I walk at least that many to get home every day, and at lunch with friends, but, as Joe said earlier, the good parts of Berkeley and the Bay can be pretty far apart. And not being able to walk everywhere is an, omg, major bummer.

I don't have any current friends.


Where did I mention I'd like to meet women?
I mean I do, but I don't consider that likely any time soon, because I have no idea how to approach women from a romantic stand point.

I do, quite regularly, for exersize.

Approach them with the intent to get romantic with them?! >.< My advice always sounds mean but it's well-intentioned. The problem is really that there is somewhat some basis to the ladder theory/friend zone course of thought and one doesn't want to get stuck.

[Zeful]

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Well, as someone for whom being social has never come natural, I will say that this sort of thing isn't easy. Being noticed and being able to put yourself out there are both things that take a lot of hard work. There really isn't anything you can do to get around this, no easy fix. There's nothing you can do but keep trying. Eventually you'll find worthwhile people who like you.

On being noticed: this is something that you have to do for yourself. People are not, for the most part, going to want to go up and talk to you if you do nothing to warrant such attention. The problem is that putting yourself out there is difficult, even if you're used to it. It will probably be something that you will constantly struggle with, no matter what happens. You won't really learn it at all, however, without trial and error. It's really the only way.

Yeah except old habits are hard to break. I was... not the most popular kid in my school years. I'm used to hiding in plain sight all the time. It's created a few problems, I don't enter a room without being invited, I don't speak unless spoken to, for instance. So I don't know how to get others to notice me.

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Zeful, Don't. :) You just need to find the right person. Find something that interests you, whether it be music, sports, literary criticism, or beer. Just think about what you like, and go out and enjoy it. I'd be surprised if you met no one like that.

There are a lot of things that interest me, but few of them require me to venture outside of my house. And the things that interest me and I can venture outside for, I don't know where I could go.

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Zeful - you mentioned one supposed "touch happy" place? can you clarify/elaborate what you mean by that

unless you're completely contact phobic, then as long as you can bare other people with good grace you'll be fine. People don't get offended if you don't act the same way as long as you're polite about it. They have their way, and you have yours.

It's a place called the Gay Ninties. It's been described by regulars as very intimate and physical. They go on to say that you're almost never not being touched.

I do not like being touched unless I request it or have otherwise accepted the contact. Otherwise physical contact causes pain. I've almost hit several people for touching me before learning that they shouldn't. So a touch-conductive environment and an admittedly short-tempered touch-aversive person only leads to assault charges and jail time.

[skywalker]

It's not the walking at all, it's the saying mean things to me and trying to ruin my self esteem, relationships with others, getting jealous because all my friends are guys, etc.

And I can walk 20 blocks. I walk at least that many to get home every day, and at lunch with friends, but, as Joe said earlier, the good parts of Berkeley and the Bay can be pretty far apart. And not being able to walk everywhere is an, omg, major bummer.

I meant to stick "alone" in that sentence. As in "let him walk his 20 blocks alone." But I was in a hurry, sorry. I understand exactly what it was. Like I said, douche. Not just a douche, but a fat douche, apparently (which is my least favorite kind of douche). Not sure I would say it's abusive, legal term and all that, but yeah, kick his butt to the kerb. How many different ways can one spell curb? I realize now that lots of people walk 20 blocks. I walked 20 blocks when I went on school trips to New York and Chicago, I realize that it is done. I walk about a mile a day, I'd say, as part of classes. But 20 blocks in one go seems so excessive to me. I'd take a bus or a subway or a cab or a personal car. Just personal cultural difference.

Hadrian: Which part was fun times?

[Zeful]

Approach them with the intent to get romantic with them?! >.< My advice always sounds mean but it's well-intentioned. The problem is really that there is somewhat some basis to the ladder theory/friend zone course of thought and one doesn't want to get stuck.

How? I've been isolated from others for a majority of my life do to either my actions or the actions of others. I have no idea what to say and what not to say in social situations. Approaching someone "with the intent to get romantic" doesn't make sense to me. It gives me no clue on how I should be acting, how I should talk, what body language to use, distance, level of eye-contact, degree and type of physical contact. Further due to several instances being observant on my part have created the inherent assumption that no woman would want me. I have over 12 years of evidence for that assumption (I'm 20 now, for reference) and less than two weeks worth of evidence against, broken up over 8 years. Compared to that pattern what chance do I have?

[Quincunx]

Magnet. I like that. Maaaagnet. Attention magnet. It even dampens down the original phrase to neutrality, which means I can yoink "'Nique, the attention-sucking vortex of DOOM" from Sinfest for severe cases! Thank you!

Silence, may I suggest another option: Develop a taste for more approachable women? Not everyone has set the bar unattainably high.

[Silence]

Silence, may I suggest another option: Develop a taste for more approachable women? Not everyone has set the bar unattainably high.

I try, I try, but it seems that there are so few respectable women my age theses days.

Wish I was a few years older....

[SilentNight]

I try, I try, but it seems that there are so few respectable women my age theses days.

Wish I was a few years older....

Well, in lieu of actually being older, act older. I don't mean start carrying dentures around with you or smoking a pipe, just carry yourself with more maturity. Depending on your grade in high school this works great, especially as a freshman/sophmore. A mature underclassman is sometimes a welcome relief to older classman of the fairer sex. If you're a senior though, this doesn't exactly work. I hate to ask as well, but have you tried getting out and meeting new people?

[averagejoe]

My question is, what do I do? Just wait? Give up? Settle for, and try to date, someone who I don't respect or love as much as the others?

I'm so confused about my feelings. I need someone, maybe not even a "relationship" (although that would be great). Maybe just a friend, but I can't find one. Damn, life is hard. I think we can all agree on that.

Firstly, giving up is for chumps. Just my opinion.

Secondly, maybe you should learn to be okay with not having a relationship first. Gaining greater self awareness is very useful when it comes to this sort of thing.

Yeah except old habits are hard to break. I was... not the most popular kid in my school years. I'm used to hiding in plain sight all the time. It's created a few problems, I don't enter a room without being invited, I don't speak unless spoken to, for instance. So I don't know how to get others to notice me.

Yes, that is why I said it would not be easy. You are making a lot of excuses for why you won't try various things, but none of us is going to give you some magical advice that will immediately get you friends without having to get your hands dirty. Like I said again, you will have to go out there and learn how to interact with people and project yourself. The only way to do this is trial and error. It will be difficult, intellectually and emotionally. If there's a way around this, I don't know it.

One thing I used to do to build my confidence (now it's just because I enjoy it) is try to make eye contact with random strangers that walk past and smile at them. Many times, if they are not with someone or on the phone or otherwise distracted, they will smile back. I found this encouraging at the time. It's a very brief, nearly meaningless connection, but you are still putting yourself out there and risking some form of rejection. Maybe you won't find it helpful. Just a suggestion.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Shadowbane: Something about the story is just not adding up. She's constantly being hit on, has a wonderful personality, and yet says she doesn't feel worthy or whatev? I don't know what it is, but there is a piece missing from this puzzle. In any case, it'll be interesting to see how your talk goes.

As for the guy who won't give up, I think it's your turn to go all Clark Gable on someone. If he's having a hard time accepting the truth, show it to him.

Zeful: Sounds to me like your lack of friends stems more from your baggage than anything, I can relate in that regard. I used to be a ghost in the crowd myself. As you may have noticed from the harshness of my advice posts, I typically have empathy problems. This, among other things, often makes mingling an awkward experience. The simplest way to address it is to find stuff in the area that interests you and do them. You'll bump into others with similar interests, and if you can manage to pry yourself out of your shell, a few of them might turn out to be kindred spirits. It's not easy, but it's worth it in the end.

Silence: Sounds to me like you need to work on your self-image, tone down how harshly you judge others (I know this personality flaw all TOO well, seeing as how I'm guilty as hell of it), and stop idealising people.

Last point first: You didn't really know any of these girls (due to physical and emotional distance), but you've emotionally latched onto the IDEA of them so hard that its got you thinking that your feelings for them mean something. They don't. Since you let yourself get carried away with how you imagined things being, rather than facing the reality of the verious situations, you're hurt over what never was and/or what never could have been.

The second point: Are you really so flawless that you feel free to cast stones at others? Respectable people of your age group huh? What would it take to make the girls around you WORTHY of your attention?

Point one: It's funny that someone with an unhealthy sense of self worth is so critical of others, I'm familiar with this pattern in myself as well. This behavior is part of your core problem. If you can't look in the mirror, and like (or at least tolorate) what you see, you'll never end up in a healthy relationship. Instead, you'll keep pairing your poor self-esteem up with judging others so that, in the end, you'll continue to set yourself up for continuing this self destructive cycle because the only people you'll look at aren't real.

[Silence]

Silence: Sounds to me like you need to work on your self-image, tone down how harshly you judge others (I know this personality flaw all TOO well, seeing as how I'm guilty as hell of it), and stop idealising people.

Yeah, I should try not to do that. You're right.

Last point first: You didn't really know any of these girls (due to physical and emotional distance), but you've emotionally latched onto the IDEA of them so hard that its got you thinking that your feelings for them mean something. They don't. Since you let yourself get carried away with how you imagined things being, rather than facing the reality of the verious situations, you're hurt over what never was and/or what never could have been.

That's the reason I had to force myself not be in love with them. I realized exactly what you said, and you're exactly right. Although, I really do know one of them (the one that can barely stand me now), as I've known her for about three years.

The second point: Are you really so flawless that you feel free to cast stones at others? Respectable people of your age group huh? What would it take to make the girls around you WORTHY of your attention?

Not worthy, just.... ***, you got me. Worthy is exactly the right word. I know I'm not flawless, but I operate in such a different way than most people. In a much older way. I mean, people usually guess my age to be much older than I actually am (2-3 years older) even after they've really gotten to meet me and spend a few hours with me. The other thing is that I'm so incredibly different than everyone. This is partially due to Aspergers, and partially due the the fact that I'm a total nutjob with a bit of superiority complex that I really need to get over :P

Point one: It's funny that someone with an unhealthy sense of self worth is so critical of others, I'm familiar with this pattern in myself as well. This behavior is part of your core problem. If you can't look in the mirror, and like (or at least tolorate) what you see, you'll never end up in a healthy relationship. Instead, you'll keep pairing your poor self-esteem up with judging others so that, in the end, you'll continue to set yourself up for continuing this self destructive cycle because the only people you'll look at aren't real.

Hmmmm.... You know, you make a helluva lot of sense. I'm pretty sure that you're right.

Odd that at the same time I can feel superior to everyone around me at school and such and feel like I'm not good enough at the same time. I really need to work on these problems.

Thanks Hadrian, and thanks everyone else. I only quoted and responded to her message because it pretty much covered everything else in other responses to my posts. Except something said below.

I read everything, though :D

@SilentNight: I'm pretty much permanently grounded from concerts and conventions due to issues with my parents. That makes it difficult to meet anyone outside of school and church. I don't even have a drivers license yet, so that makes it astronomically more difficult. I try at every chance I get to, though :)