Relationship Woes and Advice, The Seventh Saga

[Zarrexaij]

Telling them is a good start.

Ya' know, conversing. Speech. Communication.

I've tried that, they don't seem to get it.

"BUT I CAN'T TRUST YOU WAAAAAAAAAAAAHMBULANCE."

Despite the fact I've been nothing but honest and done absolutely nothing to make them think they can't trust me...

[xPANCAKEx]

How do you get someone to understand they have you on a too short of a leash, so to speak, and it's alienating you, and causing a lot of psychological and emotional harm?

a bit more detail of the situation would help me give better advice... but

tell them how what they're doing is affecting you. Use as simple a laungauge as possible - over explaining things/being too verbose rather than just stating a simple "you're too controlling and its upsetting" or something equally similar and blunt may allow them to make excuses to themselves to continue their behavior, but depending on whats going on, it may well require a bit more delecate wording. Control issues usually boil down to trust

[THAC0]

a bit more detail of the situation would help me give better advice... but

tell them how what they're doing is affecting you. Use as simple a laungauge as possible - over explaining things/being too verbose rather than just stating a simple "you're too controlling and its upsetting" or something equally similar and blunt may allow them to make excuses to themselves to continue their behavior, but depending on whats going on, it may well require a bit more delecate wording. Control issues usually boil down to trust

Yes, and remember to use "I" wording instead of "You" wording.

"I feel XYZ" instead of "You're doing XYZ." Makes a big difference.

[Phaedra]

I've tried that, they don't seem to get it.

"BUT I CAN'T TRUST YOU WAAAAAAAAAAAAHMBULANCE."

Despite the fact I've been nothing but honest and done absolutely nothing to make them think they can't trust me...

Have they said why they feel they can't trust you? P_Z is right - communication is key. If you know why they have trust issues then you can find a way to deal with this. Set out precisely what they are doing that bothers you, make sure they understand why it bothers you and ask why they act that way and what you could do to help them feel more secure. As others have said, try to word it so you don't sound accusational or as if all the problems in the relationship are their fault - it just makes people defensive.

If you've discussed it in detail with them and they won't move from their position, and you can't do anything more than you've done, than sadly it may be time to end it.

[Zarrexaij]

tell them how what they're doing is affecting you.

I've done this. The person has a ferric cranium, I swear.

The counter is always the same: that I'm not to be trusted because I've done a few rotten things four or so years ago that have made them completely distrust me even though I'm tried hard to regain they're trust. They see everything I do as a breech of their trust and something to watch carefully over, as if I'm some dangerous criminal. If I go alone with a friend (or a really particular male friend that I admitted I was very attracted to), this person goes nuts and is angry with my for a day, and lectures me over the fact that I ABSOLUTE CANNOT be trusted because I wanted to spend ONE ****ING HOUR with one of my friends without asking them. I have to do EVERYTHING with their approval, and it is driving me insane.

[xPANCAKEx]

Yes, and remember to use "I" wording instead of "You" wording.

"I feel XYZ" instead of "You're doing XYZ." Makes a big difference.

i'd disagree - if you're significant other is doing something THAT upsetting then as adults you should be able to call them on it, and hold them accountable to their own actions

we're each responsible for how we act on our own feelings. If they choose to act on their insecurities by trying to control you rather than address their issues, its not going to be a healthy situation

[Pyrian]

How do you get someone to understand they have you on a too short of a leash, so to speak, and it's alienating you, and causing a lot of psychological and emotional harm?

Just like that, I suppose.

I've seen similar issues far too often, and the common denominator seems to be that the other person sees the situation COMPLETELY differently - so much so, that it's very hard to bridge the gap in expectations. People really do get their ideas of how relationships are "supposed" to work more or less randomly, and are remarkably loathe to adjust preconceptions for the individual partner; it's really very sad, IMO.

Anyway, a discussion of expectations might be a good place to start. Ask them (within context) how they expect you to behave, how they expect to behave, and then, importantly, how they expect you to think and feel about their behavior. Then, discuss the vice-versa; how you expect to act, how you expect to be treated, how you expect to feel about it. Finally, let loose with how you actually think and feel about their treatment of you.

With everything in the open, maybe you can come to a new understanding.

Don't get me wrong - this sort of thing is extremely difficult to deal with and I usually see it tear relationships to shreds. So, don't be surprised if the conversations are very frustrating, or if there is a lot of backsliding afterwards. But you have to keep at it - being treated with decency is not optional!

Good luck!

[xPANCAKEx]

I've done this. The person has a ferric cranium, I swear.

The counter is always the same: that I'm not to be trusted because I've done a few rotten things four or so years ago that have made them completely distrust me even though I'm tried hard to regain they're trust. They see everything I do as a breech of their trust and something to watch carefully over, as if I'm some dangerous criminal. If I go alone with a friend (or a really particular male friend that I admitted I was very attracted to), this person goes nuts and is angry with my for a day, and lectures me over the fact that I ABSOLUTE CANNOT be trusted because I wanted to spend ONE ****ING HOUR with one of my friends without asking them. I have to do EVERYTHING with their approval, and it is driving me insane.

If its gone on for that long then things may have run their course.

Appologising for past misdeeds certainly goes a long way - but if they've not accepted the apology, acknowledged your efforts to make up for it, and regained some trust in the last 4 years, then you have to ask yourselves as a couple if they will ever trust you again, and what if anything can be done to make that happen

If they don't want to let go of they pain the may still be carrying, or want to trust you again (without making you jump through hoops to obtain it) then you have to ask if they want to continue the relationship.

Trust is in part based on respect - and if they can't respect your space or privacy, then how can they hope to continue things in any sort of healthy fashion where they don't have to watch over you every 10 minutes

being treated with decency is not optional!

couldn't have put it better myself... so i'll quote it instead

[Player_Zero]

So you're asking how to tell someone something without talking to them?

If talking doesn't work there's not much other option in way of communication. You could write a passive aggressive note or something equally stupid, but really just talking and making sure you're understood is the only way to go about it.

It doesn't seem like they're going to be readily able to trust you. This would seem to indicate that they are somewhat insecure in the present situation. If it isn't justified that they can't trust you then you could attempt trying to make this apparent to them. Admittedly, hanging around alone with people you say you are very attracted to probably isn't the best course of action in my opinion.

P_Z is right

Oooo. Say it again.

[Pyrian]

Dangit, take a while writing, have some issues getting it to post, and find a whole conversation has occurred in the meantime.

Okay, it actually sounds like communication is NOT the problem, here. He knows you don't like it, and he cares more about satisfying his own distrust than about making you happy. (Read that sentence again, it's important.)

I doubt you can "force" him to change his behavior through normal conversation. You might be able to force an attitude change via ultimatum, but that could just as easily result in a "passive-aggressive" response of some type, at best. He'll likely take it as evidence that you are or want to cheat on him! I've even seen people take such an action as an excuse to cheat themselves...

Another possibility is to simply refuse to satisfy him. Do as you will. When he throws a fit, tell him it's his own insecure fault and you refuse to indulge him any more.

I guess the bottom line is that you have to decide what you're going to do, because I think he's made it clear that his mind is made up.

[Zarrexaij]

. Admittedly, hanging around alone with people you say you are very attracted to probably isn't the best course of action in my opinion.

Alone in extremely public places. IE Campus coffee shops, since I'm such a sex maniac I can't even be trusted with someone in public.

Appologising for past misdeeds certainly goes a long way

Been apologizing for it for a long damn time.

[Phaedra]

Oooo. Say it again.

No, that's all you get. I'm afraid saying anything more would feed your ego to the point where you start building a lair in a mountain and plotting the downfall of humanity.

[xPANCAKEx]

i think Pyrian has it right here - but you have to ask yourself as well if you want to continue a to have a relationship with these issues (that decision isn't his alone to make)

[skywalker]

Alone in extremely public places. IE Campus coffee shops, since I'm such a sex maniac I can't even be trusted with someone in public.

Speaking as a "short-leasher" and someone who doesn't like his SO hanging alone with people they're attracted to (even in extremely public places), I think you should just forget it. You and this person aren't going to get along, especially since it sounds like neither of you wants to be rational. I think both of you should grow up a little more.

[Zarrexaij]

i think Pyrian has it right here - but you have to ask yourself as well if you want to continue a to have a relationship with these issues (that decision isn't his alone to make)

Last time I tried breaking up with him, he threatened suicide and told a bunch of nasty lies to my parents about what I've been doing.

Speaking as a "short-leasher" and someone who doesn't like his SO hanging alone with people they're attracted to (even in extremely public places), I think you should just forget it. You and this person aren't going to get along, especially since it sounds like neither of you wants to be rational. I think both of you should grow up a little more.

So I'm immature because I want someone to quit being emotionally abusive? Thanks.

[xPANCAKEx]

Last time I tried breaking up with him, he threatened suicide and told a bunch of nasty lies to my parents about what I've been doing.

and yet you got back together with him?

in all seriousness: STAND UP FOR YOURSELF.

If you need to, talk to your friends/family/parents first about it to head off any mis-truths he may be about to spread. But you can't let him emotionally blackmail you and expect a happy, enjoyable relationship out of it

[TheBST]

Last time I tried breaking up with him, he threatened suicide and told a bunch of nasty lies to my parents about what I've been doing.

If this is true, get out of the relationship. Now. Head for the single life like Steve McQueen on a motorbike towards the Swiss border. In a breakup, you don't get either of your parents involved. If it was unwritten before, this rule is written as of now.

[Phaedra]

Last time I tried breaking up with him, he threatened suicide and told a bunch of nasty lies to my parents about what I've been doing.

You can't stay with someone because of their threats. It's not healthy for anyone involved. Your parents should believe you over your partner, so his lies hurt but shouldn't be permanantly damaging. If he threatens suicide again, it'll be hard to leave him but really you can't stay with someone through pity or fear of what they'll do. Say you'll support him as a friend but nothing more.

[Milanius]

I've done this. The person has a ferric cranium, I swear.

The counter is always the same: that I'm not to be trusted because I've done a few rotten things four or so years ago that have made them completely distrust me even though I'm tried hard to regain they're trust. They see everything I do as a breech of their trust and something to watch carefully over, as if I'm some dangerous criminal. If I go alone with a friend (or a really particular male friend that I admitted I was very attracted to), this person goes nuts and is angry with my for a day, and lectures me over the fact that I ABSOLUTE CANNOT be trusted because I wanted to spend ONE ****ING HOUR with one of my friends without asking them. I have to do EVERYTHING with their approval, and it is driving me insane.

I'll say this again: you are your own person. You are free to choose your friends and companionship for yourself and in that matter, you don't even owe your own parents any kind of explanation being that you are an adult.

Now, if this person is who I think he is, he probably very well knows that he has a manipulative grasp upon you. That is not how a friend behaves. A friend would keep your benefit in mind, not just own selfish interests. If the person refuses to listen to explanations and continues to act like he owes you, **** him.

tl;dr - You don't owe anyone anything, not even conversation. In this, my advice differs from Mr. Zero's.

[skywalker]

So I'm immature because I want someone to quit being emotionally abusive? Thanks.

No, you're immature because you got into this relationship knowing who he was, and now it's too much for you. You have no intention of even considering that what he wants might be rational, and you want this all his fault.

News flash: When you hang out with someone who you might be interested in, or who might be interested in you, alone, that probably hurts him. I know, he's the emotionally abusive one according to you, but just because he's not mature enough to simply say "what you're doing is hurting me" doesn't make you mature.

You both got into a relationship you shouldn't have.

[Player_Zero]

Last time I tried breaking up with him, he threatened suicide and told a bunch of nasty lies to my parents about what I've been doing.

This isn't sounding like the healthiest of relationships...

It might be helpful to know what your reasons for staying in the relationship are. If you're staying only because of the threats then that's... Not so great, ya' know?

No, that's all you get. I'm afraid saying anything more would feed your ego to the point where you start building a lair in a mountain and plotting the downfall of humanity.

Damn... And I was this close to going supervillain full time too...

[Zarrexaij]

No, you're immature because you got into this relationship knowing who he was, and now it's too much for you. You have no intention of even considering that what he wants might be rational, and you want this all his fault.

You're honestly justifying abuse?

[Player_Zero]

No, you're immature because you got into this relationship knowing who he was, and now it's too much for you. You have no intention of even considering that what he wants might be rational, and you want this all his fault.
You both got into a relationship you shouldn't have.

Is dat sum projecting?

[Milanius]

No, you're immature because you got into this relationship knowing who he was, and now it's too much for you. You have no intention of even considering that what he wants might be rational, and you want this all his fault.

News flash: When you hang out with someone who you might be interested in, or who might be interested in you, alone, that probably hurts him. I know, he's the emotionally abusive one according to you, but just because he's not mature enough to simply say "what you're doing is hurting me" doesn't make you mature.

You both got into a relationship you shouldn't have.

There are many things wrong with this post, but the bolded part is crucial for my next point: I have been around Zarrexaij for several years now and even I don't know the entire detail on her relationship and her ex. For you to presume this while knowing much less about her or him is [text missing due to flammable nature].

Seriously Zarre, you know what to do. His ass isn't made out of gold, stop kissing it because he might hurt himself. You do not owe him anything any longer.

[skywalker]

Is dat sum projecting?

Is it?

I already said I'm a short-leasher. So I suppose you could say there's a bit of me in there. But I think it's pretty reasonable, in all cases, to not like your SO hanging around alone (even in public) with someone else.

You're honestly justifying abuse?

No, define abuse, tho.

EDIT:

There are many things wrong with this post, but the bolded part is crucial for my next point: I have been around Zarrexaij for several years now and even I don't know the entire detail on her relationship and her ex. For you to presume this while knowing much less about her or him is [text missing due to flammable nature].

That's wonderful, I don't know anything about it, so I'm not qualified to give advice. Despite the fact that she asked a public forum. Thanks for that. I'll just shut up, and leave it up to all these other people who do know every detail.

I'm glad you cleared that up.

[xPANCAKEx]

I already said I'm a short-leasher. So I suppose you could say there's a bit of me in there. But I think it's pretty reasonable, in all cases, to not like your SO hanging around alone (even in public) with someone else.

i couldn't disagree more - but then my 'leash' is so long it practically doesn't exist.

I figure if you can't trust your SO to go where they please and do as they please and remain faithful, then theres no point in being with them

[Phaedra]

I figure if you can't trust your SO to go where they please and do as they please and remain faithful, then theres no point in being with them

Quoted because they are wise words.

Me and my partner are long distance - if we didn't trust each other to be alone with other people, we'd have no chance. Everyone has the right to a life beyond their partner.

[Syka]

I generally think, if there is a past reason, that there should be compromise working to where all parties are fine with it (ie, able to hang out with whomever whenever). If you have past issues, such as being cheated on by a previous partner or current partner, I don't think it's unreasonable to find a middle ground you are both comfortable and work up to where you are fine.

You can't force it from 0 to 60 though. It's a process. It has been with me but it's also gotten better and stuff has been stepped up.



That said, knowing how he appears to have manipulated the relationship, you need to end it. It's not healthy for either party. If there was no emotional abuse, I'd say you were both being equally immature. I still think you are both being immature (him with his "waah I'll kill myself" stuff and you with your "screw your feelings, I just care about me, but I'm still going to stay with you even though I know what I want to do hurts you", which is what hanging out with said attractive friend is doing).

But you need to leave Zarr, seriously. Leave.

Cheers~

[Starshade]

Zarrexaij: Please, nothing is worth abuse, if he tries to control you, lie to your parents, and tells he plan to kill himself if you leave, it sound as you have hit a unemotional and controlling person. Please, consider, just give it up and leave.

I dont think it looks immature from your side, though, isolated, if it was a healty relationship, if one guy complained about his GF kept, say, visiting her ex, he'd have a point.

Well, what type of guy is he? what do he want of his girl? Some guys, to give a EXTREME example, just, have some expectations, like their girl not having male friends, and being a "Stay at home" girl, and then more or less fit with his lifestyle choices after.
Um, i dont *know* you at all, so, its hard to tell, but, is it justifiable "suspicion, or do he freak out over you having other male friends?

A female AI programmer who like MGT(and possibly other RPG's as D&D?), id expect to bump into guys at studies, during work, hobbies, literally during the rest of her life. Nothing wrong with that, myself, i'm educated in growing flowers (horticulturist), and have until now, been bumping into female dominated workplaces.

Well, this is what i can think of, most likely its a miss, but, we cannot alter our basic personality.
Myself, i in a period even consciously avoided getting into a relationship in my teens since, i knew i didnt like anyone meeting my relatives; one of my parents grew up in a home with someone who was mentally abusive and controlling, and i grew up in a home with someone with paranoid view of their world, relatives, ppl on street and everyone almost including the mailman.


Ive known people with such signs as you describe, Zarre, trough most of my life, and i just say: Get away from realtionships, who hurt you.

[Pyrian]

But I think it's pretty reasonable, in all cases, to not like your SO hanging around alone (even in public) with someone else.

...Not outside of Saudi Arabia. You've admitted what your expectations are, skywalker, but I'm going to join with the others and say that what you expect out of a relationship is out of line, inappropriate, and inherently destructive.

Occasionally hanging out with friends is NOT abusive behavior.

So, back to Z, I have to throw my voice in with the others: you should not be in a relationship where the other person tells lies about you and threatens to commit suicide. The abuse is only going to keep getting worse as long as he can manipulate you into submitting ever further to his demands.