Finally the four words! (spoiler)

[Vaarsuvius4181]

V said 4 words to create the situation, and 4 words when accepting the ultimate arcane power, the only thing this thread hinges on is the idea that at some later date, V will say 4 more words and get even more power than this experimental super weapon of a triple soul splice. >_>

that is a large part of my theory, if you havnt noticed.

[Vaarsuvius4181]

I know a way to get absolute hard proof. it's called waiting.

also I disbelieve that it's hard proof because V did it to save her family and because the other method was FAR too unreliable. therefore it is NOT "all the wrong reasons" which are also needed for it to be the right four words.

there my conciense is satisfied. 27 potions of heroism please (if that's spelled wrong it's because spellcheck wasn't working)

...you just said that my theory was stupid, and then restated my theory as your theory. my theory runs on a three factors , four words, right being, wrong reasons. NONE of these were presnet when V made the deal. "Besides the 4 words, but most sentences have 4 words, so thats speculative.

[Rakim Avishot]

How am *I* a jerk? It was the second post of this thread!

I was KIDDING! I actually admire your ability as a mind-reader psychic as well as a future psychic. You must have been taking lessons from Roy<--[click here for comic]
.................................................. ...........Because I like making links in weird places, but I thought this was too hard to find, that's why!
Go future psychics!

[Vaarsuvius4181]

my first thread that go to page two lol! Thanks for the posts guys. If i didnt state it before...I think that the demons are PLANNING for vaarsuvius to want more power...thats the gambling ref. YAWN....im tired, im goin to bed

[Rakim Avishot]

Thanks for the congrats, but i guess my House metaphor kinda sucked. What i mean to say is, you cant convince yourself to take someone elses deal. Better metaphor...

"Ok, there is a blue and red button"

"Ok"

"Push the red one"

"why?"

"Just do it"

(PUSH)

"Ladies and gentle man, he pushed the red one! nice job!"


Get what im saying now? You cant convince yourself to take a deal thats beingvery linear and then calling it "Convincing yourself"

No offense, {Scrubbed - the key to not giving offense is to refrain from posting offensive material.}

[Vaarsuvius4181]

{Scrubbed}

[Rakim Avishot]

{Scrubbed}

What happened to: "YAWN....im tired, im goin to bed"?

[galdon]

that is a large part of my theory, if you havnt noticed.

yeah, which is not hard proof at all. at this point, V said 4 words, and obtained arcane power which has never been matched before. infact, they even say that V technically could gain EXP but his effective level would be so high its very unlikely, this implies that there is almost no creature that V could possibly get to who would pose enough of a threat to actually award EXP.

the only way to become any more powerful than that would be to transend to a god, which would be complete and total power not complete and total arcane power.

[Shatteredtower]

Hey, it worked for me as well, but mainly because we only got the reasons. If it takes a lot of twisting to make those the right four words. And really, why must V succeed? There aren't any right reasons for that.

"I ... I can't lose," is five words if you count the pronoun twice. The point is still that the repetition adds nothing to the other words and therefore can't be right.

[Warren Dew]

Vaarsuvius himself stated the RIGHT reasons when he was about to touch the orbs the first time.

Not at all true. Vaarsuvius claimed the first time that there was no choice, but there was always the choice of refusing.

[Kish]

"I ... I can't lose," is five words if you count the pronoun twice.

No, it isn't. "Won't" is two words because the contraction is of "will not," two words. "Can't" is a contraction of the single word "cannot."

[Optimystik]

Not at all true. Vaarsuvius claimed the first time that there was no choice, but there was always the choice of refusing.

Actually, I was referring to his reasons for accepting: "To save the lives - nay, the very souls of my children."

Lee swiftly made it apparent to him that the lives of his children were not his top priority, because he was more concerned that HIS magic be the instrument of their salvation than even trying any other method.

Hey, it worked for me as well, but mainly because we only got the reasons. If it takes a lot of twisting to make those the right four words. And really, why must V succeed? There aren't any right reasons for that.

Exactly, there are no right reasons for V specifically to succeed instead of any other way. That's what makes them the wrong reasons.

"I ... I can't lose," is five words if you count the pronoun twice. The point is still that the repetition adds nothing to the other words and therefore can't be right.

Why would you count "cannot" twice?

The repetition shows hesitation, which shows uncertainty, which shows the weakness of V's mental state. "I accept your offer" shows exactly the opposite, which is what makes it completely unfitting for this situation.

[Optimystik]

It's a "stretch" for V to talk to himself before selling his soul? Especially when there's nobody else around to talk to but fiends?

Enjoy your "thoery."

[Selene]

A literal interpretation - that every single possible wrong reason must be implicated - makes the prophecy even less accurate. Vaarsuvius isn't doing it to help Xykon control the gates, or to help the snarl get free, or to help the dirt farmer annoy his wife, or any of a myriad other wrong reasons.

Well... ummm... what?

Are you saying you won't think the prophecy is fulfilled until he's doing it for the dirt farmer?? Or are you imagining that I think this for some unfathomable reason? I think "all the wrong reasons" is just a saying. There doesn't have to be every wrong reason ever. It doesn't have to mean that every single reason he has is wrong. It means that his main reasons for doing this are wrong.

See TV Tropes. Feel free to ignore the actual section on OOTS, as you obviously disagree with it. But the rest still stands.

Hey, it worked for me as well, but mainly because we only got the reasons. If it takes a lot of twisting to make those the right four words.

Not trying to be a grammar Nazi here, but you lost me with this. Possibly because it's 4:40 in the morning. Based on what I *think* you're saying, it seems to me that those are perfectly reasonable words without any twisting. So again, we're down to difference of opinion.

[Selene]

have you ever seen House M.D? My reference was a Lupus reference lol

No, so I totally don't get any of your metaphors.

Here's mine:

I think I can, I think I can....

[TengYt]

You know, even if Rich came out and down right said somewhere that these *are* the four words and V's prophesy has come true, people on this forum would still argue that he's trying to "trick" us or something and V has not said the right four words.

Until evidence says otherwise, I am firmly convinced that V's prophesy has come true.

[kusje]

You know, even if Rich came out and down right said somewhere that these *are* the four words and V's prophesy has come true, people on this forum would still argue that he's trying to "trick" us or something and V has not said the right four words.

Until evidence says otherwise, I am firmly convinced that V's prophesy has come true.

Um no? If the writer came out to proclaim that those are the four words, I'm sure most of us here won't be in denial. We'd be disappointed because we feel that the criteria has not been met.

[Setra]

What i mean to say is, you cant convince yourself to take someone elses deal.

This is false. I don't care what anyone says, it is entirely possible to convince yourself by speaking aloud.

Because I do so all the time.

Whether or not it is a deal from someone else doesn't really matter. If you have Option A and Option B, you can't decide.. so you think harder .. you think you want to choose one but.. then you simply say something that affirms your own thoughts, which in turn allows you to choose an option.

Just because you cannot does not mean it is not possible.


To people who say it doesn't meet the criteria, get your head examined. While it is true TECHNICALLY it might not, if you do not admit that TECHNICALLY it does, then you are being close minded.

[David Argall]

Lee swiftly made it apparent to him that the lives of his children were not his top priority, because he was more concerned that HIS magic be the instrument of their salvation than even trying any other method.

Rejecting an alternative that has a snowball's chance in the tropics is not deciding that HER magic must be the way no matter what.

[Silverraptor]

speaking of which, your sig contradicts your status.....

That's exactly the point. Whatever I am in the playground, I choose some qoute Belkar said that relates to it.

[Silverraptor]

I was KIDDING! I actually admire your ability as a mind-reader psychic as well as a future psychic. You must have been taking lessons from Roy<--[click here for comic]
.................................................. ...........Because I like making links in weird places, but I thought this was too hard to find, that's why!
Go future psychics!

I knew you were kidding so I was kidding you back.

[Optimystik]

Rejecting an alternative that has a snowball's chance in the tropics is not deciding that HER magic must be the way no matter what.

If V rejected the plan because of its chance of failure rather than the fiends' reasoning - that it would remove V from the spotlight and reinforce his feelings of arcane inadequacy - then why was he so much more torn AFTER they explained the alternative plan than before it?

[Xondoure]

This is false. I don't care what anyone says, it is entirely possible to convince yourself by speaking aloud.

Because I do so all the time.

Whether or not it is a deal from someone else doesn't really matter. If you have Option A and Option B, you can't decide.. so you think harder .. you think you want to choose one but.. then you simply say something that affirms your own thoughts, which in turn allows you to choose an option.

Just because you cannot does not mean it is not possible.


To people who say it doesn't meet the criteria, get your head examined. While it is true TECHNICALLY it might not, if you do not admit that TECHNICALLY it does, then you are being close minded.

I agree. besides all the oracles prophecies have worked like this, they are never quite what hey seem like.

[Xondoure]

If V rejected the plan because of its chance of failure rather than the fiends' reasoning - that it would remove V from the spotlight and reinforce his feelings of arcane inadequacy - then why was he so much more torn AFTER they explained the alternative plan than before it?

Because they gave V a alternate solution to saving Virs family. Consequentially he chose ultimate arcane power for "all the wrong reasons."

[Xondoure]

Rejecting an alternative that has a snowball's chance in the tropics is not deciding that HER magic must be the way no matter what.

No it would have worked. or at least V thinks it would have. As you can see by V's OWN WORDS she believes there is an alternative but sells her soul out of pride.

[Optimystik]

Because they gave V a alternate solution to saving Virs family. Consequentially he chose ultimate arcane power for "all the wrong reasons."

Exactly, and if V had believed that alternative solution to be completely unfeasible he would have given some sign of such and remained his feelings of justification. Since he didn't, he believed it was a possibility and therefore accepted the power for the wrong reasons!

We're in agreement, you know.

[Nimrod's Son]

Uh, you just glossed over your own logic, you realize that, right? Unless I'm misreading you, this post indicates that you'd admit that there is a chance that my b) choice is what could have happened. That puts my b) on par with your b) mentioned earlier. That means that "I...I must succeed" is as relevant to V's current disposition as "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind." And if they are both equally relevant, they are also equally irrelevant. Since you argued that DGoW is irrelevant, then so is IIMS.

No, I said that "Disintegrate. Gust of Wind" was irrelevant if you agreed with my option B; you are quite free to disagree with it if you choose. You then said "I... I must succeed" was irrelevant if I agreed with your option B. I replied saying that I didn't agree. How is that in any way a contradiction?

I admit that there is a possibility that your option B could happen, yes, but I do not think it especially likely. Therefore I don't agree with it, therefore "I... I must succeed" is not irrelevant.

Actually, the fact that so many of us are complaining based partly on our perspective that the current deal isn't powerful enough says that no, the prophecy would not need to be rewritten.

That sentence you're replying to there? That was a deliberately flippant and tongue-in-cheek aside (That's why there's a picture of a little blue fellah sticking his tongue out at the end of it). There's no need to "correct" those ones, you know.

[JonahFalcon]

Ever consider V hasn't said the 4 words yet? I think she's going to say them to another party member.

[Nimrod's Son]

Ever consider V hasn't said the 4 words yet?

Ever consider that this thread is ten pages long?

[Selene]

Ever consider that this thread is ten pages long?

I'm guessing not.