Ridiculous D&D contrivances

[Dragonsdoom]

Can you tell me where it says that?

It does not so much say it as not say it, in that you can dual wield light weapons and it never says fists are a exception.

The better question might be as to why a monk can't two hand his fists and get any form of benefit from it.

[Paramour Pink]

What, people still use that argument? I thought it became a dead horse long ago. In either case, there's a world of difference between something that breaks the laws of physics because it's supposed to and something that's just plain ridiculous. Like aforementioned acid-breathing shark or half-dragon celestial bees(I want to use them in an adventure now).

I couldn't care less what other people argue; I'm not repeating what I've heard. I'm saying what I think. Magic doesn't make any sense, and I'm sure some spells break the laws of physics. If you let high-magic in, the floodgates have already been opened. It's all equally ridiculous if you refuse to let suspension of disbelief in as well. But seeing as I play the 3.5 for that (I'm sure we all have enough real life problems to deal with) it's hardly a bad aspect to me.

[Morty]

I couldn't care less what other people argue; I'm not repeating what I've heard. I'm saying what I think. Magic doesn't make any sense, and I'm sure some spells break the laws of physics. If you let high-magic in, the floodgates have already been opened. It's all equally ridiculous if you refuse to let suspension of disbelief in as well. But seeing as I play the 3.5 for that (I'm sure we all have enough real life problems to deal with) it's hardly a bad aspect to me.

Cool, except for two things. First, because while an acid-breathing shark or a train running on magic can be explained by saying "a wizard did it" just fine, it doesn't make them any less ridiculous and ruinous to the game's ambience. "It's magic" isn't a universal cure to everything. Second, "a wizard did it" isn't even applicable to things that are supposed to work like in real life but don't.

[TheFallenOne]

The avatar of Erythnul, God of Slaughter, was a puppy.
A flying puppy.

Maybe Ery thought "Put the laughter in the Slaughter"?

[Paramour Pink]

Cool, except for two things. First, because while an acid-breathing shark or a train running on magic can be explained by saying "a wizard did it" just fine, it doesn't make them any less ridiculous and ruinous to the game's ambience. "It's magic" isn't a universal cure to everything. Second, "a wizard did it" isn't even applicable to things that are supposed to work like in real life but don't.

It depends on suspension of disbelieve, as I've already said. I'm fine with accepting the truely ridiculous for this game, because I think wizards are pretty ridiculous themselves. But they're one of the first things you have to accept the existance of. We clearly have different levels of tolerance (probably due to looking for & enjoying slightly different things in our respective games), but magic really is a universal cure. Once you have high-fantasy...yes, "a wizard did it" does explain it all. Which goes right back to my first point that they're one of the most ridiculous things around.

[Oslecamo]

Cool, except for two things. First, because while an acid-breathing shark or a train running on magic can be explained by saying "a wizard did it" just fine, it doesn't make them any less ridiculous and ruinous to the game's ambience. "It's magic" isn't a universal cure to everything. Second, "a wizard did it" isn't even applicable to things that are supposed to work like in real life but don't.

Just follow this line of logic:

1-Wizards are all powerfull.
2-Yet wizards aren't perfect.
3-Wizards get drunck/have stupid ideas(wis as dump stat).
4-Wizards create stupid things.
5-Some of these wizards ascend to godhood, becoming even stronger.
6-Said wizards rewrite the laws of reality themselves for fun and profit.
7-Don't try to question their intentions, they're way above us petty mortals.
8-The strongest of them all is know as...the DM. He makes sure no other wizard ever ascends to his place or manages to tople his favoriete minions. But he's still not perfect.

[KazilDarkeye]

Yeah, come on. 8-Bit Theater actually has Sarda - The Wizard Who Did It as a semi-main character. You try living for that long and not get even a little bored. You'd want to experiment, go nuts, have a little fun.

Besides which, if the acid-breathing shark isn't stupid enough, check out the sidebar on the same page that allows sharks that can somehow see through and BREATHE LAVA. I think that would beat acid any time.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

It does not so much say it as not say it, in that you can dual wield light weapons and it never says fists are a exception.

The better question might be as to why a monk can't two hand his fists and get any form of benefit from it.

Because none of them have levels in the William Shatner PrC.

As to why they can't TWF...it's because they're already using both fists(and their head, elbows, feet, knees, and maybe tail) for the US. They don't have a second body to dual-wield. They can still TWF with a Kama or something, but they don't have 2 US to wield at the same time.

[Bayar]

Yeah, come on. 8-Bit Theater actually has Sarda - The Wizard Who Did It as a semi-main character. You try living for that long and not get even a little bored. You'd want to experiment, go nuts, have a little fun.

Besides which, if the acid-breathing shark isn't stupid enough, check out the sidebar on the same page that allows sharks that can somehow see through and BREATHE LAVA. I think that would beat acid any time.

So that is the reason the spell "Transmute rock to lava" exists.

[Thajocoth]

?

Grell - Medium aberrant magical beast (blind)

It's aberrant, aka native to the Far Realm where the laws of physics twist and bend in maddening ways. I would expect it to be incredibly different from that which is native to the Natural World. It's honestly MORE normal looking than I'd expect.

Actually... That's it. That is exactly what strains my suspension of disbelief. The aberrant creatures are not weird enough. They don't seem to me like anything that would cause people to go insane just by hanging around them too often. I hope they release some weirder stuff in MM2 because I plan to have a portal open to the Far Realm with the PCs getting the job to close it.

[Harperfan7]

80lb female elves with a natural 18 str. I love elves, and I know it's possible to be really strong despite your weight, but come on!

-Swimming in full plate
-a character with no ranks in jump with 10 str jumping 20 feet while wearing/carrying up to 33lbs.
-having 200hp, but currently 1hp, and still being 100% effective.
-having 200hp period
-jumping out of an airplane (which apparently exists in this hypothetical statement) with an antimagic field-belt and surviving the fall because 20d6 is only so much, even with massive damage rule.
-surviving immersion into lava
-a rogue killing a tiger with a rock because he went first
-3ft. 30lb halflings having only -2 str and carrying gear 3/4 normal weight
-Manyshot
-a human commoner having 4hp, but a dragon the size of a gymnasium only having 600.
-Dire Maces
-Slings as simple weapons, but guns being exotic


I think I've made my point. Needless to say, my campaigns are extensively homebrewed.

Also, I kinda like the idea of acid sharks. I mean, if you can have a pit of acid to begin with, why not put in fish with teeth that you made magically immune to acid? If there are bird-bears, bird-horses, bird-lions, there can be sharks who live in acid. Now lava sharks, "Aw damn it, a lake of lava! How are we going to...was that a ****ing shark fin? Holy ****ing ass crackers! Don't try to swim in the...I need an aspirin."

[averagejoe]

Also, I kinda like the idea of acid sharks. I mean, if you can have a pit of acid to begin with, why not put in fish with teeth that you made magically immune to acid? If there are bird-bears, bird-horses, bird-lions, there can be sharks who live in acid. Now lava sharks, "Aw damn it, a lake of lava! How are we going to...was that a ****ing shark fin? Holy ****ing ass crackers! Don't try to swim in the...I need an aspirin."

I tend to agree. I was never sure why an acid shark was lame in the first place, and no one's offered any reason besides, "Because it's an acid breathing shark." I mean, what with all the weird environmental/spacial/temporal shenanigans most DnD creatures get up to on a regular basis, this seems fairly tame.

[Oslecamo]

So that is the reason the spell "Transmute rock to lava" exists.

Indeed. When you've lived some centuries, you start to develop excentric new ways of messing with the petty mortals back on the material plane. After all fireball starts geting old after the 1284th time.

Thajocoth Hey it's 4e's philosophy. Everything must be pretty to atract new players.

Lizard woman have boobs for ***** sake! Now that's something I won't excuse them! What are they gonna do next? Dragons with boobs? Owlbears with boobs? Grells with boobs? I swear it seems Wotc wanted to atract all the furry fans to 4e.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

-Swimming in full plate

That, at least, I think is modled realistically. It's got a -10(or 12) penalty to the check, which means that if you are an incredibly good, professionally trained swimmer, you're just as effective as someone 7-10 levels lower.

-a character with no ranks in jump with 10 str jumping 20 feet while wearing/carrying up to 33lbs.

Yeah, that's one of the few cases where 3.0 rules worked better.

-having 200hp, but currently 1hp, and still being 100% effective.
-having 200hp period

HP is an abstraction of how much 'heroic awesome' you have. When you're down to 10 or less, you've got as much potential for avoiding something that should kill you as a civillian.

-jumping out of an airplane (which apparently exists in this hypothetical statement) with an antimagic field-belt and surviving the fall because 20d6 is only so much, even with massive damage rule.
-surviving immersion into lava

Yeah, those are stupid.

-a rogue killing a tiger with a rock because he went first

It's possible to toss a rock hard enough to break bone. The spine(specifically the neck) is a bone. My real problem with that is a human reacting faster than a tiger.

-Dire Maces

What's the issue?

-Slings as simple weapons, but guns being exotic

Yes, slings shouldn't be simple, but considering what goes into weilding even a civil-war era gun, let alone one from the 15th century, there's no way they should be martial.

[pirateshow]

-Swimming in full plate

A well-fitted suit of plate armour, at least the really good 16th century stuff, allows this. Henry VIII had a suit of tilting armour in which he could swim, climb a rope, and run quickly.

My real problem with that is a human reacting faster than a tiger.

That is (I assume without having the MM on hand to look it up) why a tiger gets a substantial initiative bonus. It would be an act of legendary heroic proportions to beat one in a contest of reflex and reaction time.

-Dire Maces

Aren't these just staves with weighted/flanged ends? I'd use that.

[tyckspoon]

Grell - Medium aberrant magical beast (blind)

It's aberrant, aka native to the Far Realm where the laws of physics twist and bend in maddening ways. I would expect it to be incredibly different from that which is native to the Natural World. It's honestly MORE normal looking than I'd expect.

Actually... That's it. That is exactly what strains my suspension of disbelief. The aberrant creatures are not weird enough. They don't seem to me like anything that would cause people to go insane just by hanging around them too often. I hope they release some weirder stuff in MM2 because I plan to have a portal open to the Far Realm with the PCs getting the job to close it.

I think your expectations for what an aberration should be may be too high to achieve. You have a fundamental problem in that anything "too weird to be thought about by humans" is.. well, too weird to think about. Which means you can't very well get somebody to draw a picture of it and write up a description to put in your Monster Manual, can you? What's it look like? How does it attack? What sort of things does it hang around with? The answer to all of these is "don't know, trying to find out drives you insane." Decent horror concept, but not a good D&D monster.

Sure, you can try anyway, but anything you end up committing to paper is going to fall far short of the ideal. Just look at what happened to Cthulu after some bugger decided to draw him- now we have cute plush 'thulus and the Munchkin art version. He's been reduced from Alien Horror to pop-culture icon.

Personally, I would say that anything truly alien that comes out of the Far Realm can only live in the Far Realms; if they tried to cross a hypothetical portal, they'd find the Material plane is as harmful to them as the Far Realms would be to the minds of normal people. So any Aberrants you encounter on the Material have to be like the Grell; weird, but close enough to normal to function outside of Far Realms conditions.

[monty]

That is (I assume without having the MM on hand to look it up) why a tiger gets a substantial initiative bonus. It would be an act of legendary heroic proportions to beat one in a contest of reflex and reaction time.

Tiger
...
Initiative: +2

Not even Improved Initiative?

[Doug Lampert]

-Swimming in full plate
-jumping out of an airplane (which apparently exists in this hypothetical statement) with an antimagic field-belt and surviving the fall because 20d6 is only so much, even with massive damage rule.

I believe people HAVE gone swiming in full plate, and I KNOW people have done gymnastics like handstands and cartwheels. If nothing else trapped air in the padding on realistic plate will keep you floating for quite a few seconds before it soaks through.

At least 4 people have survived falling out of airplanes at 20,000+ ft without a parachute in the real world. Given that most people try to avoid falling that far without a shute that's not really a bad survival rate. Why it should be possible for ordinary humans to survive something in the real world but is "obviously" totally impossible for superheroic fantasy characters in a fantasy world is the mind boggling part.

If you want an unrealistic falling rule in D&D land consider that a cat is more easily killed by a fall than an elephant. Yeah right.

[Callos_DeTerran]

I was just reading Dungeonscape... sharks bred to swim in acid? Really? It's one of the most preposterous and ostentatious things you could possibly put in a dungeon! As if the lack of flesh searing chemicals wasn't enough! Sharks, really?

Acid-breathing sharks are not only non-preposterous, but likely essential for any TRUE Dark Overlord or Black Dragon! Given enough time, and with a natural immunity to acid, why not make giant pits of acid for enemies to fall into? It's a great death trap.

But wait...

Oh yeah, there's spells called Energy Resistance Acid and Energy Immunity Acid. Well pooh, how WILL you keep the giant acid pits a credible threat? Well obviously the answer is to fill it with hostile and hungry creatures and whats more hostile and hungry then an acid-breathing shark? So there.

I for one embrace the acid breathing shark and it's lava breathing cousin as true additions to an evil overlord's arsenal of villainy.

[KazilDarkeye]

Yeah, but that still doesn't explain how the shark (or whatever, because it doesn't have to be a shark*) manages to SEE through the lava.
I can easily imagine see-through acid, but see-through lava?

* Any other good options here for creatures/liquids? Creatures are easy enough:
Piranha Swarm
Jellyfish Swarm
Barracuda
Electric Eel
Giant Crab
Stingray
Squid
<sigh...> Squark
Kraken (is that allowed?)

But are there any notable substances?
Sand maybe?
Powdered Glass?
Blood?
Crude Oil?
-Edit: Actually scratch that last one unless the creature gains fire resistance/immunity

[Lamech]

If you want an unrealistic falling rule in D&D land consider that a cat is more easily killed by a fall than an elephant. Yeah right.

Umm... in DnD the terminal velocity is... 50ft/s. Thats 34 mph! Oh and that applies to EVERYTHING. Thats my key complaint with falling. Manual of the Planes: What the?

I also have countless rants about campaign worlds, but thats a totally differant story.

[FoE]

Dinosaur-riding halflings beat the lightning train every day. For that matter, any dinosaurs, and that includes dinosaur-like humanoids, in any fantasy game are ridiculous. The ones that serve as mounts to halflings are just an extreme example.

Dinosaurs=awesome
Therefore, dinosaur-riding halflings=totally awesome

It's a really simple formula.

[chiasaur11]

Acid-breathing sharks are not only non-preposterous, but likely essential for any TRUE Dark Overlord or Black Dragon! Given enough time, and with a natural immunity to acid, why not make giant pits of acid for enemies to fall into? It's a great death trap.

But wait...

Oh yeah, there's spells called Energy Resistance Acid and Energy Immunity Acid. Well pooh, how WILL you keep the giant acid pits a credible threat? Well obviously the answer is to fill it with hostile and hungry creatures and whats more hostile and hungry then an acid-breathing shark? So there.

I for one embrace the acid breathing shark and it's lava breathing cousin as true additions to an evil overlord's arsenal of villainy.

The only real risk is their inevitable rebellion.

Which is also thwarted by you, the overlord, not flooding your own living quarters with acid. If your foe isn't O-Chul, it's the perfect death trap.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Yeah, but that still doesn't explain how the shark (or whatever, because it doesn't have to be a shark*) manages to SEE through the lava.
I can easily imagine see-through acid, but see-through lava?

Sharks have bad eye-sight in the first place, they'd react more so to the motion of the lava around them and a heightened sense of smell then to what they actually see. 'sides. I once crossed blue lava then clear lava. No, I don't know how they exist, but the only thing that would have made them scarier is if I knew Jaws was waiting down there for me in case I didn't burn to death.

[Roderick_BR]

...Our Administrator and Giant wrote that supplement...

And he made fun of it himself in the OotS comic.

[Bayar]

Yeah, but that still doesn't explain how the shark (or whatever, because it doesn't have to be a shark*) manages to SEE through the lava.
I can easily imagine see-through acid, but see-through lava?

* Any other good options here for creatures/liquids? Creatures are easy enough:
Piranha Swarm
Jellyfish Swarm
Barracuda
Electric Eel
Giant Crab
Stingray
Squid
<sigh...> Squark
Kraken (is that allowed?)

But are there any notable substances?
Sand maybe?
Powdered Glass?
Blood?
Crude Oil?
-Edit: Actually scratch that last one unless the creature gains fire resistance/immunity

It says that a wizard did it.

[Godskook]

That the rules do nothing about a creature's height/weight.

I was trying to get into a game with a 14 strength female human paladin who supposedly was 5'6" and only weighed 120lbs. WTF? I've known women who probably needed to gain weight who were 140lbs, and would be no where near what 14 strength is supposed to be(Specifically, my wife).

[FoE]

That is exactly what strains my suspension of disbelief. The aberrant creatures are not weird enough. They don't seem to me like anything that would cause people to go insane just by hanging around them too often. I hope they release some weirder stuff in MM2 because I plan to have a portal open to the Far Realm with the PCs getting the job to close it.

Well, to be fair, the grell isn't really meant to drive you insane so much as it's meant to paralyze you and slash you to pieces.

But come on, that thing shouldn't be! It hovers in the air despite no apparent means to do so! It's a giant lump of flesh and tentacles with no eyes, ears or nose! And yet, it hunts you even it shouldn't be able to even find you ! HOW DOES IT FIND YOU?!

[Callos_DeTerran]

Well, to be fair, the grell isn't really meant to drive you insane so much as it's meant to paralyze you and slash you to pieces.

But come on, that thing shouldn't be! It hovers in the air despite no apparent means to do so! It's a giant lump of flesh and tentacles with no eyes, ears or nose! And yet, it hunts you even it shouldn't be able to even find you ! HOW DOES IT FIND YOU?!

Lords of Madness has the answer!

[KazilDarkeye]

HOW DOES IT FIND YOU?!

Quite a good morsel, but not filling enough.

Seriously though - according to Lords of Madness:
1) It can hear you, it just doesn't have recognisable ears (similar to how insects hear without having ears. According to the book the whole membrane (the surface of the "brain") functions as a giant ear.
2) They also possess a sense of electroreception similar to that used by sharks and rays.

3) The flight effect is a magical effect similar to a Ravid's or Beholder's.

Thus, they have blindsense that's actually pretty annoying to disable, because you have to use two countermeasures instead of just one.