Ridiculous D&D contrivances

[Thajocoth]

I think your expectations for what an aberration should be may be too high to achieve. You have a fundamental problem in that anything "too weird to be thought about by humans" is.. well, too weird to think about. Which means you can't very well get somebody to draw a picture of it and write up a description to put in your Monster Manual, can you? What's it look like? How does it attack? What sort of things does it hang around with? The answer to all of these is "don't know, trying to find out drives you insane." Decent horror concept, but not a good D&D monster.

Sure, you can try anyway, but anything you end up committing to paper is going to fall far short of the ideal. Just look at what happened to Cthulu after some bugger decided to draw him- now we have cute plush 'thulus and the Munchkin art version. He's been reduced from Alien Horror to pop-culture icon.

Personally, I would say that anything truly alien that comes out of the Far Realm can only live in the Far Realms; if they tried to cross a hypothetical portal, they'd find the Material plane is as harmful to them as the Far Realms would be to the minds of normal people. So any Aberrants you encounter on the Material have to be like the Grell; weird, but close enough to normal to function outside of Far Realms conditions.

Response 1: Giygas?
Response 2: You make excellent points. No sane human can draw or create stats for a being incapable of being understood by the sane. Hmm... Maybe I should ask that guy that's constantly making bird noises down the block to write up some stats... Or do you think the guy who yells at road cones might be better suited? (Note: I'm not serious about asking the local crazies to write monster stats for me.)

I also agree about our physics and forms having the same effect on them. Any who transfer in either direction would have to become some sort of hybrid that'd be an abomination on either end to realistically exist anywhere. Even the Feywild & Shadowfell CAN corrupt a person, and they're Natural World's next door neighbors. They're pretty much the same physics-wise.

Well, to be fair, the grell isn't really meant to drive you insane so much as it's meant to paralyze you and slash you to pieces.

But come on, that thing shouldn't be! It hovers in the air despite no apparent means to do so! It's a giant lump of flesh and tentacles with no eyes, ears or nose! And yet, it hunts you even it shouldn't be able to even find you ! HOW DOES IT FIND YOU?!

Blindsight. In the Far Realm, I think there's more psychic physics and less physical physics... So "seeing" when a mind comes within 50 feet of them makes perfect sense to me... As does flying, as a sort of leftover latent anti-physicsness from the Far Realm. And it does so have a nose. Beaks are a kind of nose.

[Graymayre]

I've always been curious as to how humans can make babies with every humanoid race. Not only that, but the off-spring can reproduce as well!

My only explanation for it would be that Orcs, Elves, Halflings, Dwarves, etc, etc. are simply off shooting branches of the human tree (much like different species of dog) and that humans are obviously the oldest, and the most superior, race!

[Godskook]

On my earlier point, it also tweaks me that there is no rules difference between male and female, anywhere. A female level 1 commoner has just as much strength as a male one does. While I can accept this among the non-real species(elf, orc, dragon), I know that males are better at some things than females, and females are better at other than males. At the very least, give males +2 to str or con and -2 to dex and give females +2 to dex and -2 to str or con.

humans are obviously the oldest, and the most superior, race!

Going back to your dog analogy, mutts are typically just plain better than either pure-breed line it came from. This makes me wonder why things like half-elf and half-orc are rated below par like they are.....

[Faleldir]

As to why they can't TWF...it's because they're already using both fists(and their head, elbows, feet, knees, and maybe tail) for the US. They don't have a second body to dual-wield. They can still TWF with a Kama or something, but they don't have 2 US to wield at the same time.

I know why they can't do that by RAW; I've seen that exact same explanation in at last two different FAQs. That's not what this thread is about. I'm saying they should be able to from a realism standpoint and the mental image of someone attacking with every part of their body simultaneously is ridiculous. I really don't want to derail a thread to have a long argument about rules. I understand the rules. DO NOT QUOTE THIS.

[Fostire]

It does not so much say it as not say it, in that you can dual wield light weapons and it never says fists are a exception.

The better question might be as to why a monk can't two hand his fists and get any form of benefit from it.

I always thought the monks flurry of blows ability was TWF with unarmed strikes. If I recall correctly flurry of blows gives you the same bonuses and penalties as TWF.

[Morty]

My only explanation for it would be that Orcs, Elves, Halflings, Dwarves, etc, etc. are simply off shooting branches of the human tree (much like different species of dog) and that humans are obviously the oldest, and the most superior, race!

That's actually how it looks in Arcanum, where all human-sized races are descended from humans, either naturally or magically. Similiarily, gnomes and halflings are descended from dwarves.

[Thajocoth]

If they're going to allow Half-races... They should allow combos that aren't half Human. What if an Elf and an Eladrin have a kid who grows up to be an adventurer? What race do I use to represent that? What about an Orc and a Dragonborn? What about a Dragon and a Gelatinous Cube?

(I'm serious about that last one... I'm incorporating Half-Gelatinous creatures, including Dragons, into my campaign. I made a template, but Dragons are Solos, and you can't apply templates to Solos, so I wound up just using Black Dragons and adding +2 stealth... Not the greatest fix.)

[SolkaTruesilver]

Going back to your dog analogy, mutts are typically just plain better than either pure-breed line it came from. This makes me wonder why things like half-elf and half-orc are rated below par like they are.....

Well... We could extend the analogy. Mutts are looked down by dog breeders, and those breeders have their favourites.

Now, if you happen to have Gods instead of Dog Breeders, and they have favourites...

The smutts will be quite inferior to the pedigrees.

[KazilDarkeye]

Well, Dragon Magic has Frostblood Orcs (Orcs with minute traces of white dragon blood), which you could potentially modify for other kinds of dragon.
Celestial or Half-Celestial Elf might work for the first in a pinch.
As for the Half-Gelatinous Dragon, perhaps you could try using a dragon with a Permanent Amorphous Form spell (SpC) applied to it).

The main reason these half-breeds aren't written, is simply because there are two many for anyone to really bother.
If n is the number of races (including subraces. Half-Grey Elf, anyone?) you're considering, then the total number of combinations is something along the lines of n(n-1). In "reality" it's probably lower (to avoid things that just aren't really feasible without great effort/a-wizard-did-it solutions, e.g. elf-orc).

[monty]

On my earlier point, it also tweaks me that there is no rules difference between male and female, anywhere. A female level 1 commoner has just as much strength as a male one does. While I can accept this among the non-real species(elf, orc, dragon), I know that males are better at some things than females, and females are better at other than males. At the very least, give males +2 to str or con and -2 to dex and give females +2 to dex and -2 to str or con.

Someone made a thread about that a while back. They got yelled at a lot. I can't help thinking this would be a bad idea, no matter how it's implemented.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Well, Dragon Magic has Frostblood Orcs (Orcs with minute traces of white dragon blood), which you could potentially modify for other kinds of dragon.
Celestial or Half-Celestial Elf might work for the first in a pinch.
As for the Half-Gelatinous Dragon, perhaps you could try using a dragon with a Permanent Amorphous Form spell (SpC) applied to it).

The main reason these half-breeds aren't written, is simply because there are two many for anyone to really bother.
If n is the number of races (including subraces. Half-Grey Elf, anyone?) you're considering, then the total number of combinations is something along the lines of n(n-1). In "reality" it's probably lower (to avoid things that just aren't really feasible without great effort/a-wizard-did-it solutions, e.g. elf-orc).

My thought on how to fix this(which is too much work for homebrew, which is why I haven't statted it out) is that whenever you create a race, you create a base creature and a template. The base creature is determined by the mother, the template applied is determined by the father. Base creature includes type and size, template includes racial abilities. Stat mods are determined on a case by case basis. In cases where the parents are 2 or more size categories apart, the resulting offspring gains either Powerful or Slight Build, and the combination has to be okay'd by the DM(due to both balance issues and the 'Wizard did it' of the backstory). The problem is that this would need to have been implimented by WotC back when writing the races for the resulting combinations to be close to balanced. As-is, it quickly becomes a tangled mess that makes polymorph look good and I haven't even considered LA or HD.

[Fhaolan]

I've always been curious as to how humans can make babies with every humanoid race. Not only that, but the off-spring can reproduce as well!

My only explanation for it would be that Orcs, Elves, Halflings, Dwarves, etc, etc. are simply off shooting branches of the human tree (much like different species of dog) and that humans are obviously the oldest, and the most superior, race!

One word, Dragons. Dragons get it on with anything, apparantly. Including Oozes, normal-sized bees, houseplants...

So I would say Dragons beat humans on that front... no pun intended.

[MickJay]

In Arcanum males were stronger, while females had a bonus to constitution, representing the general higher endurance, and I vaguely remember that in some MMOG women had higher mental stats while being physically weaker. Generally, I find it irritating that regardless of the dimorphism, both sexes are almost universally identically statted in games.

Yes, slings shouldn't be simple, but considering what goes into weilding even a civil-war era gun, let alone one from the 15th century, there's no way they should be martial.

Firearms became favourite weapons of many one-time mercenaries during the XV and XVI centuries, because it was so easy to master the basics; after a couple of days of training, they could go and effectively fight on the battlefield. If that doesn't qualify as simple, then what? It takes more effort to learn to fight, at least with a small degree of efficiency, with a sword, or even a small bow. Sure, none of these people would actually be good with their weapons, but given the general inaccuracy of early firearms, good aim wouldn't change anything; majority of the supposedly "exotic" firearms are actually easier to use than most "martial" weapons, and even easier than some of the "simple" ones.

[Dogmantra]

Someone made a thread about that a while back. They got yelled at a lot. I can't help thinking this would be a bad idea, no matter how it's implemented.

I remember that thread. I think the main argument was that doing something like making males stronger and less dextrous, while making females less strong but more dextrous would be making HUGE generalisations.

I'm weaker than everyone I know, and I'm a guy. A +2 vs. -2 is going to mean that to accurately represent that (i.e. everyone else has at least +1 strength bonus more than me), I'd need to roll about a 6 for Strength, and females would have to roll 12!
That's silly.

[Thajocoth]

As for the Half-Gelatinous Dragon, perhaps you could try using a dragon with a Permanent Amorphous Form spell (SpC) applied to it).

I'm going to assume that you're using a different edition as I've no idea what (SpC) means. I'm in 4th Ed.

I should really just add that fact to my sig at this point... It come up WAY too often.

[Kroy]

Someone made a thread about that a while back. They got yelled at a lot. I can't help thinking this would be a bad idea, no matter how it's implemented.

That was a fun thread to read. I followed it all morning, to bad it got scrubbed.

[monty]

I'm going to assume that you're using a different edition as I've no idea what (SpC) means. I'm in 4th Ed.

Spell Compendium (3.5). Oddly enough, it's a book with a bunch of spells in it.

[lesser_minion]

On my earlier point, it also tweaks me that there is no rules difference between male and female, anywhere. A female level 1 commoner has just as much strength as a male one does. While I can accept this among the non-real species(elf, orc, dragon), I know that males are better at some things than females, and females are better at other than males. At the very least, give males +2 to str or con and -2 to dex and give females +2 to dex and -2 to str or con.

I think the closest you would be able to get to introducing that kind of thing without causing offense to anyone would be to extend the list of character traits to include things that are commonly perceived as specific to one gender or another. Even then, it would only allow the potential differences between genders to be modelled - you probably wouldn't get away with limiting the traits to either gender.

[Dervag]

-Swimming in full plate

This is at least slightly possible for well-designed full plate, over short distances. I believe there was a discussion on the "Real Life Weapons and Armor Thread" recently.

-a rogue killing a tiger with a rock because he went first

If you were good at throwing rocks, this could probably be done. A tiger is no more immune to the effects of a crushed skull than anything else. But you'd have to be damn good at rock-throwing.

What's the issue? Yes, slings shouldn't be simple, but considering what goes into weilding even a civil-war era gun, let alone one from the 15th century, there's no way they should be martial.

But you can teach someone to use those things in a few weeks! Contrast with swords, where a few weeks' training doesn't put you anywhere near effectiveness.

Also, I gather that the difficulty of using slings is greatly overestimated by people who are doing it wrong. The sling is supposed to be swung vertically up and down, not round and round in circles over your head.

On my earlier point, it also tweaks me that there is no rules difference between male and female, anywhere. A female level 1 commoner has just as much strength as a male one does. While I can accept this among the non-real species(elf, orc, dragon), I know that males are better at some things than females, and females are better at other than males. At the very least, give males +2 to str or con and -2 to dex and give females +2 to dex and -2 to str or con.

There are powerful Rule of Fun reasons not to do this, and you'd open up a gigantic can of worms trying to figure out what the bonuses and penalties should be.
_____

One word, Dragons. Dragons get it on with anything, apparantly. Including Oozes, normal-sized bees, houseplants...

So I would say Dragons beat humans on that front... no pun intended.

Of course, this only works because dragons can shapeshift into whatever they jolly well please, and apparently can do so down to the genetic level. Weird, huh?

[Thane of Fife]

Of course, this only works because dragons can shapeshift into whatever they jolly well please, and apparently can do so down to the genetic level. Weird, huh?

I once worked out a big long system of how this could work, with the base idea being that shapechanging spells create a sort of "cover" DNA that is used while you're polymorphed, but that your own normal DNA is hidden behind it and can still be reached when breeding.

The end result being that a Female Dragon (Xd Xd) could polymorph into a Male Human (Xh Yh Xd Xd) and breed with a Female Elf (Xe Xe). Possible children would then include:
Xh Xe (Female Half-Elf)
Yh Xe (Male Half-Elf)
Xd Xe (Female Half-Dragon Elf)

The most interesting part being that you could have two creatures polymorph into humans, breed, and have a child with no human parts whatsoever, even though they both thought they were having a child with a human.

[Harperfan7]

I'm not about to bother with quote bars.

-Swimming in full plate - I always imagine full plate as being massive and rigid, the kind of stuff that would make stairs look like obstacles. Not too serious on that one, just kinda hard to imagine.

-I meant Dire Flail, not Dire Mace.

-Those people who survived the 20,000+ ft. falls always landed in heavy snow through pine trees or in sewage plants. Not dirt, rock, etc.

-The rogue is using a rock with which he is not proficient as a weapon (-4) and kills the tiger because of sneak attack. What if I had said a bear? My point is, if it can be killed with 1d2+10d6, a rogue can kill it with a rock.

I was going to mention females always being as strong as males, but I thought nah, I'll leave that alone...

[MeklorIlavator]

-I meant Dire Flail, not Dire Mace.

Yeah, that one is pretty silly.

-The rogue is using a rock with which he is not proficient as a weapon (-4) and kills the tiger because of sneak attack. What if I had said a bear? My point is, if it can be killed with 1d2+10d6, a rogue can kill it with a rock.

This should work. It is possible to kill most animals with a rock, it's just hard, and so the reverse tends to happen more.

I was going to mention females always being as strong as males, but I thought nah, I'll leave that alone...

As you should. That's a tremendous generalization, plus it brings up whole other problems, as evidenced by the threads that pop up regarding the subject.

[Myrmex]

Animate dead, on the other hand...that's a lot of onyx.

Not really. You can change the GP value of an item by the quality of its cut.

[Dragonsdoom]

I always thought the monks flurry of blows ability was TWF with unarmed strikes. If I recall correctly flurry of blows gives you the same bonuses and penalties as TWF.

It is never considered TWF, and the first penalties are negated later on.

There is absolutely nothing stopping a monk from dual wielding unarmed attacks, unless a very cruel DM wants to throttle the player with the flavor text.

[Fcannon]

The train runs faster and is more reliable than ours!

The Lightning Rail goes around 30 mph, a modern subway train can hit 80. Whether it's silly or not is of course a personal matter.

[Dixieboy]

As you should. That's a tremendous generalization, plus it brings up whole other problems, as evidenced by the threads that pop up regarding the subject.

You know, that always struck me as odd.

What about species where there is a significant difference between the male and the female?
Not a lot of those due to Wotc's PCnes but still.

Hell i think it should affect more "human" races too.
Take for example the drow
Different favored classes for the genders, since it's a matriarchal society and men are not allowed to be priests of their god and females leave the meddling with the Arcane arts to the men, they have no interest in it either way.

But that's only one race, and you can't convince me that equality has gotten into every nook and cranny of the planes except for the underdark.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

It is never considered TWF, and the first penalties are negated later on.

There is absolutely nothing stopping a monk from dual wielding unarmed attacks, unless a very cruel DM wants to throttle the player with the flavor text.

Well, there is the RaW. The monk's wielding his Unarmed Strike main-hand. What's his off-hand weapon? He only has one Unarmed Strike. Yes, it is possible to TWF with US main and a Sai or something secondary, but you only have one US for your weapon.

[erikun]

Funny, I never had a problem convincing a DM to allow my TWF Fighter to fight with two unarmed attacks. After all, if my off hand isn't unarmed, then what is it armed with? Can I sell it to the NPC for gold?

[Faulty]

I tend to agree. I was never sure why an acid shark was lame in the first place, and no one's offered any reason besides, "Because it's an acid breathing shark." I mean, what with all the weird environmental/spacial/temporal shenanigans most DnD creatures get up to on a regular basis, this seems fairly tame.

Why a shark, of all things? And if you have a lake of acid, what more defense do you need? Are you afraid of skinny dipping it for for Christ's sake!? How the Hell did you get a body of acid that big in the first place?

Acid-breathing sharks are not only non-preposterous, but likely essential for any TRUE Dark Overlord or Black Dragon! Given enough time, and with a natural immunity to acid, why not make giant pits of acid for enemies to fall into? It's a great death trap.

But wait...

Oh yeah, there's spells called Energy Resistance Acid and Energy Immunity Acid. Well pooh, how WILL you keep the giant acid pits a credible threat? Well obviously the answer is to fill it with hostile and hungry creatures and whats more hostile and hungry then an acid-breathing shark? So there.

I for one embrace the acid breathing shark and it's lava breathing cousin as true additions to an evil overlord's arsenal of villainy.

They're bred. How the Hell do you breed sharks to breath acid!? It seems like something from a bad spy movie!



I don't see the hate on half-races. Personally, I have no problem with the idea of mating with some saucy Elf babe.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Funny, I never had a problem convincing a DM to allow my TWF Fighter to fight with two unarmed attacks. After all, if my off hand isn't unarmed, then what is it armed with? Can I sell it to the NPC for gold?

Well, first off a non-Monk's unarmed attack is his fist, so you can dual-wield it. The monk justifies his boosted damage because he already is punching with 2 fists, kicking, kneeing, and biting his opponents. What's left for him to fight with(and don't say the obvious)?

Second, I'm talking RaW and flavor here, not actual DM rulings.