Avatar Battle Royale-Discussion Thread XXI: We're a Big, Happy, Dysfunctional Family

[T-O-E]

Wouldn't you have to fold the fourth dimension through the fifth?

I'm probably wrong.

[Szilard]

Apparently you hasn't seen that movie (where they say that time travel is fourth dimensional travel) What I was saying is that we can't really understand stuff past third dimensional so we wouldn't need to explain how the plotaporter work if it's beyond that.

They've been saying time is the fourth dimension since like... at least Einstein.

[Lyinginbedmon]

X and Y axises together form a plane, like the side of a piece of paper. Z makes it three-dimensional, which is the world we live in.

The fourth dimension is time, the "N" axis.

[Mad Mask]

Not necessarily. See the tesseract, a 4 dimensional figure.

[memnarch]

Apparently you hasn't seen that movie (where they say that time travel is fourth dimensional travel) What I was saying is that we can't really understand stuff past third dimensional so we wouldn't need to explain how the plotaporter work if it's beyond that.

Yeah, I know that time travel goes through the fourth, but the Plotaporter does not.

Maybe another way to explain this would be through webcomics.

• Webcomic RGB has a character with a plotaporter.
• Webcomic CYM has something a character is RGB would find useful.
• Both webcomics are occuring/being drawn/running at the same time.

To a reader, it would appear that RGB has jumped over to CYM (sometimes called a crossover). Breaking the fourth wall means the characters in the story/plot know that they are IN a story/plot of whatever medium it happens to be.

In our case, it just so happens that CYM (Plot 3) is ancient history to RGB (FFF).

[Wreckingrocc]

Isn't time the 6th?

I think universe is 7th, or something silly like that.

To be honest, the tesseract looks 3-D to me... It's really hard to visualize it being on a different plane/dimension, since the real world is only 3 dimensions (plus time, which can't be represented in more than one place at any given moment).

[Mad Mask]

No, time is not a spacial dimension. Hexeracts (6 dimension hypercubes) exist.

Did you read Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions ? It will help you imagine other dimensions.

[Mina Kobold]

Yeah, I know that time travel goes through the fourth, but the Plotaporter does not.

Maybe another way to explain this would be through webcomics.

• Webcomic RGB has a character with a plotaporter.
• Webcomic CYM has something a character is RGB would find useful.
• Both webcomics are occuring/being drawn/running at the same time.

To a reader, it would appear that RGB has jumped over to CYM (sometimes called a crossover). Breaking the fourth wall means the characters in the story/plot know that they are IN a story/plot of whatever medium it happens to be.

In our case, it just so happens that CYM (Plot 3) is ancient history to RGB (FFF).

I just said that it went through the fifth (or some higher number) because I know what the previous four are (it's plausible that the fifth could be something like this in a fictionall universe right), not that the plotaporter goes through the fourth.

[Keris]

Just addressing a few points here, I can't be bothered to quote everything.

So your saying that shifting plots has no relevance to the main plotline?

Yes.

If we use time travel, then we can just say that the timeline branches off, the old one existing but not perceived by anyone in the new timeleine. One could travel to the other continuity, but that would require a plotaport, and thus it would be non-canon.

Yeah, but Q said it wasn't time travel. Hence the orphaned continuity.

You're not quite right Keris. As Q stated, plotaporter doesn't effect time and jump only between plots, which means he can jump only to the part of plot which happens simultaneously with the plot he jumps from.......So if he jumps from FFF to P3, he can't change past much more than other participants of P3.....

But P3 is in the past of FFF. Either he went back in time, or he went to a different continuity. And the participants of P3 aren't changing anything, they are defining it.

edit: And also you've used inaccurate diagrams for this kind of situation....

How so? It's not to scale, but I didn't think it would need to be.

The way I understand it, Q's Plotaporter teleports him through the fourth wall, essentially what your third image does, except for having them be the same universe. Parallel universish thing.

Yeah, in this case the parallel universe is the Non-Canon P3 segment. It would actually have stuff before it, but it wouldn't lead on to another FFF, as he won't be affecting the future (as it's not time travel).

To be honest, the tesseract looks 3-D to me... It's really hard to visualize it being on a different plane/dimension, since the real world is only 3 dimensions (plus time, which can't be represented in more than one place at any given moment).

The deal with the Tesseract is that all the faces are on the outside. That's why it's 4D, not 3D, the drawing is a 3D representation.

[-skimmer-]

But P3 is in the past of FFF. Either he went back in time, or he went to a different continuity.

Yet from plot view P3 happens simultaneously with FFF and Q's are part of Avbaroy's past in this continuity.....so nothing really works

And the participants of P3 aren't changing anything, they are defining it.

Exactly...

How so? It's not to scale, but I didn't think it would need to be.

True, my bad...

[memnarch]

Hurt/Heal has updated once again!

Nameless tags Szilard for God-Mode; Szilard has been God-Moded!! (not really, but that's what it looks like )

[Keris]

Yet from plot view P3 happens simultaneously with FFF and Q's are part of Avbaroy's past in this continuity.....so nothing really works

But P3 is not concurrent with FFF. While they are being written simultaneously, they actually exist in different points within the same timeline. One cannot travel between them without moving along this timeline, so for Q to have not done so, he cannot have moved to P3. Instead, he moved to a facsimile of P3, in which he made alterations to the course of things. These alterations do not affect the main continuity, because they are fundamentally separate.

Incidentally, here are a couple of things that Q's plotaportation screws up:
Spaceships. While it is assumed that P3 had space craft, they are intended to be a recent innovation, Fort Longcat being the pride of a nation, and one of the only space-faring craft. If spacecraft were common, then a substantial part of the population would be able to escape the Cataclysm, which didn't happen.
Making Szilard the Richest Person in the Whole Universe. Obviously, this is going to cause huge ramifications to the economy in P3, due to the sudden influx of currency. Szilard is also now has no reason to continue working as an investigator for House Haalu, which would write him out of the plot. He's also apparently gained detailed knowledge of Arcane Incarnations, who are mythological bogeymen in P3, and given a piece of technology magical abilities, despite P3 being a low magic setting.

[Nameless]

Awesome comic MM.

[Green-Shirt Q]

You know what, I'll just say that the Clown-headed plot teleporter is both non-canon AND canon, that's it's a completely unexplainable and unpredictable invention, it's &*%$#&*ed up and let's move the hell on. It's really unimportant, but it has already happened. Let's not try and explain every single goddamned thing and just have fun.

[Lemming]

You know what, I'll just say that the Clown-headed plot teleporter is both non-canon AND canon, that's it's a completely unexplainable and unpredictable invention, it's &*%$#&*ed up and let's move the hell on. It's really unimportant, but it has already happened. Let's not try and explain every single goddamned thing and just have fun.

So its cannon for FFF but not for P3?

[-skimmer-]

You know what, I'll just say that the Clown-headed plot teleporter is both non-canon AND canon, that's it's a completely unexplainable and unpredictable invention, it's &*%$#&*ed up and let's move the hell on. It's really unimportant, but it has already happened. Let's not try and explain every single goddamned thing and just have fun.

And we just had fun discussing what a simple box with button and clown head on it actually can do with the whole multiverse.....

So its cannon for FFF but not for P3?

Everything should be cannon....

[Keris]

So its canon for FFF but not for P3?

This is what I've been proposing.

[Green-Shirt Q]

This is what I've been proposing.

It is canon for plot 3, but not history.

The clown-headed plot teleporter has already affected plot 3, but the plot teleporter considers it completely different to FFF and makes both things have nothing to do with eachother.

So basically the plot teleporter exists in every plot, but it doesn't effect the connection between them except that it sends characters between them.

Also, what a weird coincedence that neither of us seem to be online at the same time. Isn't that weird?

[Keris]

It is canon for plot 3, but not history.

The clown-headed plot teleporter has already affected plot 3, but the plot teleporter considers it completely different to FFF and makes both things have nothing to do with eachother.

So basically the plot teleporter exists in every plot, but it doesn't effect the connection between them except that it sends characters between them.

But P3 is not completely separate from FFF. It is a prequel, and part of the same continuity. That's what it was created to be, that's what it is.

If it's P3 canon, it's part of the history. If it's not P3 canon, it's not. That's why I said we should have it taking place in an orphaned segment of P3, as on diagram 4.

Also, what a weird coincedence that neither of us seem to be online at the same time. Isn't that weird?

Nope. You just never see me listed as online.

[Emperor Ing]

it would be omni-helpful if everyone would just turn off invisibility move.

[Green-Shirt Q]

But P3 is not completely separate from FFF. It is a prequel, and part of the same continuity. That's what it was created to be, that's what it is.

If it's P3 canon, it's part of the history. If it's not P3 canon, it's not. That's why I said we should have it taking place in an orphaned segment of P3, as on diagram 4.

Except it's not. At least not according to the guy who invented the clown-headed plot teleporter.

Apperently, everything stands on it's own. The only reason people in sequels remember anything from the first thing was because, when they were conjered into existance, they were given all the memories of the past thing. So, hypothetically, FI for example would stand on it own universe, and all the characters would just be clones given the memory of the past thing. Apperently the plots aren't actually in the same universe. Any connection was placed there to imitate a connection and coninuity is an illusion. According to this nut.

This theory, however, is the only way we can explain the invention. It moves, not to a different time, but to a different, completely unrealated universe. This universe is altered, because of the teleporter's involvement, but the future segments, being in another universe, aren't affected.

Get it?

[Wreckingrocc]

Ugh, my head hurts...

All this talk of dimensions on top of my math final from hell (It's a really frickin' hard takehome final)...

I don't like math anymore =( Algebra was so easy and straightforward, but now it's just proofs, memorizing obnoxious formulae, and proving trig identities It's not hard gradewise, but I honestly feel like I'm wasting my time prepping for the tests and forgetting the material.

[Keris]

Except it's not. At least not according to the guy who invented the clown-headed plot teleporter.

According to the guy who invented P3, it is.

Apperently, everything stands on it's own. The only reason people in sequels remember anything from the first thing was because, when they were conjered into existance, they were given all the memories of the past thing. So, hypothetically, FI for example would stand on it own universe, and all the characters would just be clones given the memory of the past thing. Apperently the plots aren't actually in the same universe. Any connection was placed there to imitate a connection and coninuity is an illusion. According to this nut.

This theory, however, is the only way we can explain the invention. It moves, not to a different time, but to a different, completely unrealated universe. This universe is altered, because of the teleporter's involvement, but the future segments, being in another universe, aren't affected.

No, we can explain in a similar, but slightly different, method.

The destination plotline is not separate from the original, because that destroys any notion of continuity the sequel may have. And if we continue your premise to a logical conclusion, then each comic exists in a vacuum, and the plot falls down.

Instead, a separate, orphaned, plotline is created as you use the Plotaporter. It is called into being in a vacuum, like the plotlines you describe, but the original continues.

Get it?

Got it? Good.

I don't like math anymore =(

How... dare you.

Algebra was so easy and straightforward, but now it's just proofs, memorizing obnoxious formulae, and proving trig identities It's not hard gradewise, but I honestly feel like I'm wasting my time prepping for the tests and forgetting the material.

It gets better later on. You can actually put those formulae to use.

[Mina Kobold]

Ugh, my head hurts...

All this talk of dimensions on top of my math final from hell (It's a really frickin' hard takehome final)...

I don't like math anymore =( Algebra was so easy and straightforward, but now it's just proofs, memorizing obnoxious formulae, and proving trig identities It's not hard gradewise, but I honestly feel like I'm wasting my time prepping for the tests and forgetting the material.

Don't worry, life is always that way when you get older (in other words; I hate life) You'll get used to it (or get access to magic, whatever works for you)

[Green-Shirt Q]

Don't argue with me. Argue with the guy who invented the plot teleporter. I'm not arguing with you. He is.

Anyway, why do we even care?

[Emperor Ing]

Allow me to annihilate Keris's argument with a simple statement

Time Paradoxes are Impossible!

[Mina Kobold]

Don't argue with me. Argue with the guy who invented the plot teleporter. I'm not arguing with you. He is.

Anyway, why do we even care?

I think it's because t's hard to understand what your clown thing does (might freak out people) or maybe I'm just crazy.

[Keris]

Don't argue with me. Argue with the guy who invented the plot teleporter. I'm not arguing with you. He is.

And he was you, was he not?

Anyway, why do we even care?

Because I plan to make a P3 comic, but the setting is screwed to hell by your plotaport, I may as well not bother.

Time Paradoxes are Impossible!

Depends on the model of the Universe.

[Green-Shirt Q]

Maybe it's just because I knock down the nuts and bolts of continuity!

Anyway, the clown-headed plot teleporter explaination, while perhaps the stupidest, is the only one that makes sense. The only reason a prequel affects a sequel is because the character clones have been given the memory of the past adventure. This will be seen quite frequently in my backstory comic, and may even be fully explained.

[EDIT]

And he was you, was he not?



Because I plan to make a P3 comic, but the setting is screwed to hell by your plotaport, I may as well not bother.

Nope. Not me. A character named Dr. Diszdoff who will appear in one of my backstory comics.

And how could that possibly affect anything in P3 anymore? Q is gone and so is the plot teleporter. Everything is the same except Uncle Szilard is rich.

[Mina Kobold]

Maybe it's just because I knock down the nuts and bolts of continuity!

Anyway, the clown-headed plot teleporter explaination, while perhaps the stupidest, is the only one that makes sense. The only reason a prequel affects a sequel is because the character clones have been given the memory of the past adventure. This will be seen quite frequently in my backstory comic, and may even be fully explained.



Nope. Not me.

And how could that possibly affect anything in P3 anymore?

Why don't you use time-travel? (since it has already happened it can't be changed)