OOTS #658 - The Discussion Thread

[Zombie Nixon]

I hope Xykon doesn't lose his phylactery now, that would be disappointing

[Werewindlefr]

Power currently takes the form of a tiny-sized familiar.

[DungeonDelver]

Is it possible that the flight he was under the effect of was cast off of one of the splices and V didn't have it prepared hirself? V loses the splice, can't cast any flight spells again. Overland flight gets dispelled, V can't fly until another chance to prepare spells comes up. I can't remember if V cast flight at any point before the splice.

[DrakebloodIV]

Ten bucks says the bird gets fried ten feet from the portal.

[Porthos]

Yeh, I'm quite clear on him having lost his flight spell (the one in use), it's just he got his slots replenished, which under any sensible reading means he should now be ablt to cast it again. It's not complicated.

Now you see, by my reading of the IFCC strip in question, it was clear that V was able to choose what spells he wanted at that instant. After all, this was a group that flouted the rules of DnD with the whole Advanced Time Stop, so it seems entierly possible that they could have someone chooe a whole new spell list for the day in an instant.

Quite frankly, I never even thought for a moment that he would have the exact same spells memorized as the day before.

I really think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Sure, V could have had more than one Fly spell memorized, but I guess he decided to use those slots for something else.

The fact that Blackwing is here to save the day means that V still gets to be a contributing factor to hurting Xykon. It's just a bit more indirect this way.

[Toper]

I'd just like to brag a little bit about how far ahead I saw this coming. I've got supervision. I'm the oracle. I'm the freaking oracle.

Dude, you wrote 95 words, of which the first two were correct and the rest were garbage.

(So you don't have to click on the link, they were "Blackwing comes".)

[Kaytara]

Thanks for the explanations, guys. :) I knew that sounded familiar somehow... I think it fits the comic pretty well. A small advantage that you have is better than a big advantage that you, uh, don't have. XD That is, V is using every possible small advantage he can think of. :)

Does anyone else think Vaarsuvius looks somewhat strangely adorable in that last panel? The long hair makes his figure look visually smaller, and with all the bruises, cuts, black eye and torn robes, you just kind of want to hug him... The fact that he's standing next to O-Chul, who is taller, probably helps too.

Huh... I'll probably want to make a drawing of that last panel. :)

[darkjubs]

Also, what exactly happened to that Meteor Swarm? It looks like Xykon missed O-Chul with it, but that should still mean that both him and V have to make reflex saves just for being in the area of effect, and even those would only make the damage partial.... Yet they don't seem to get any injuries from the Meteor Swarm.... So what gives?

It could very well be that one of the potions that V fed O'Chul was a Protection From Energy potion, although unless V also drank one off camera that doesn't really explain how she survived it.

[Ridureyu]

Yeh, I'm quite clear on him having lost his flight spell (the one in use), it's just he got his slots replenished, which under any sensible reading means he should now be ablt to cast it again. It's not complicated.

That's because you're assuming that somehow there waz a crazy carryover duplicate flight spell. Sorry, dude. I thinkt hat from now on, when you make random claims about the comic, you need to actually post a reference and a quote where V explicitly says, "I have another flight spell prepared in case this one fails," or something similar.

[Porthos]

It could very well be that one of the potions that V fed O'Chul was a Protection From Energy potion, although unless V also drank one off camera that doesn't really explain how she survived it.

It was just a ranged touch attack that missed. I don't see why we need anymore of an explanation than that.

[Pronounceable]

Yep, the phylactery is a goner. Drama cannot be denied!

Having the empty phylactery destroyed doesn't do anything to Xykon except break his morale. At least there's no explanation by RAW afaik so it's up to the Giant.

One thing I'm curious is, how come V's still up? Shouldn't he have gone down?

Also, will you people stop feeding Jeptcloak?

[homeosapiens]

Now you see, by my reading of the IFCC strip in question, it was clear that V was able to choose what spells he wanted at that instant. After all, this was a group that flouted the rules of DnD with the whole Advanced Time Stop, so it seems entierly possible that they could have someone chooe a whole new spell list for the day in an instant.

Quite frankly, I never even thought for a moment that he would have the exact same spells memorized as the day before.

I really think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Sure, V could have had more than one Fly spell memorized, but I guess he decided to use those slots for something else.

The fact that Blackwing is here to save the day means that V still gets to be a contributing factor to hurting Xykon. It's just a bit more indirect this way.

The comic rock's. Yet another cliffhanger...


Still i believe it is pretty unreasonable to think V wouldn't prepare Fly or Overland Fly. After all who might think that he wanted to stay in splice all day? And wasnt it said that spells finish while splice finish? It is stretching. You can't rationalize it in any way - but hey! Nobody is perfect! G man is a human too. EoT?Plz.


What's gonna happen next? (dunh dunh dunh)

Just read up people. I really dont like when people post without reading first.

[gibbo88]

Awesome comic Rich, though you cliffhangers are slowly driving me insane with not knowing what happens!

[Glory of Arioch]

I think V and O-chul have actually secured their escape route this way, assuming Blackwing cooperates with little resistance.

Facts: Raven base fly speed is 40 feet. Overland Flight fly speed is 40 feet. A raven familiar with a master of V's level has improved evasion and can share touch spells. V could easily buff the raven for a few rounds with any spells remaining before sending it off to the Rift. A raven also has a good reflex save and is Tiny, which will hinder Xykon's ranged touch AC quite a bit.

The most important thing is that Xykon can't effectively deal with multiple targets at once unless he's specifically prepared to. He has to pick his battles, as we've seen repeatedly. And since Xykon values self-preservation over all things, it's pretty clear that his attention will be focused on recovering his precious, leaving V and O-chul ample time to hide. Xykon also appears to have either barred Divination or otherwise has not invested heavily in it (and O'chul has a lingering Cloister on him, which may or may not hinder any Divination efforts while he's in the city, I forget.)

Whether O-chul flees or not is another story, of course.

[Moebius]

I applauded... not just because Blackwing returned, but Vaarsuvius. Remembered. Blackwing. When it really mattered. That's awesome on many levels.

And that O-chul didn't hesitate to bring V along is cool too.

[BlueWizard]

Blackwing! Like one of my familiars.

I love how Rich plays on the fact all PCs seem to forget their PC's familiar at some point or another. Even I as a DM sometimes do when the players don't remind me.

[faith]

yes blackwing die to give us a fleeting tacticle advantage!

[Kaytara]

I'd just like to brag a little bit about how far ahead I saw this coming. I've got supervision. I'm the oracle. I'm the freaking oracle.

Sorry, I agree with Toper.... All you got right was that Blackwing would be coming back, which was obvious anyway. You'd have to have predicted the timing and exact circumstances and effect of his return in order to get any real bragging rights.

[darkjubs]

It was just a ranged touch attack that missed. I don't see why we need anymore of an explanation than that.

Even if the meteors miss, they still explode and damage everything within 30' of them, although this doesn't seem to happen the other times that X uses them either. I suppose it could just be that meteor swarm works differently in the OotS universe. *shrug*

[DungeonDelver]

This was a good comic, though. I'm so far on the edge of my seat I have a Tenser's Floating Disc holding me up part of the way.

[pyrefiend]

Sure, V could have had more than one Fly spell memorized, but I guess he decided to use those slots for something else.

The point Jeptcloak is making is that V should have an overland flight spell because he prepared it that day, it was replenished by the splice, and his old flight spell (before the splice) is the one that's been in effect this whole time. You could say that he re-chose his spells for the day when he got the splice, but that doesn't make much sense to me. Choosing the spells requires concentration or at least conscious thought, whereas receiving raw arcane power to replenish spells already chosen doesn't seem like it would need to.

Frankly, I think Rich overlooked this. I'm sure I would make many more mistakes if I wrote a story about characters whose abilities could be defined by sets of rules and statistics. However, this plot turn could be intentional. Its possible V's replenished spell slots are a direct result of having powerful souls still shackled to him.

It's sort of a stretch, but it could work.

Edit:

That's because you're assuming that somehow there waz a crazy carryover duplicate flight spell. Sorry, dude. I thinkt hat from now on, when you make random claims about the comic, you need to actually post a reference and a quote where V explicitly says, "I have another flight spell prepared in case this one fails," or something similar.

No, you're misunderstanding his argument. V doesn't need another fly spell, the one he'd been using was cast before the splice and was in use this whole time. The duration is one hour/level. Jeptcloak has a valid argument here, although this isn't necessarily an oversight on Rich's part.

[Kaytara]

Another question: Don't familiars disappear if their master is killed? If Xykon realises that the raven is V's familiar, O-Chul may have his hands full making sure V survives long enough for Blackwing to make it to the rift... I definitely hope that the MitD (whose existence we were conveniently reminded of again) steps in before O-Chul can be finally killed, but an attempt at a Heroic Sacrifice may be coming....

[Ridureyu]

So, what would happen if the phylactery is destroyed, O-Chul sacrifices himself saving V, and V escapes, but V reports this to the party:

"Only through the use of my Arcane Magical Power did we achieve this victory. The Paladin was of no use beyond that of a meat shield, unfortunately. Therefore, I am supreme!"

I think there would be riots in Los Angeles.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

Dude, you wrote 95 words, of which the first two were correct and the rest were garbage.

(So you don't have to click on the link, they were "Blackwing comes".)

It was a speculation thread, and it started with "Everybody remember the raven, V's familiar (Blackwing/Arrow shooting target)? He's gonna come back, that's what I think." thank you very fricking much. The rest was discussion.

Congrats! You've just failed a spot check!

[Porthos]

Just read up people. I really dont like when people post without reading first.

Was that directed at me? I did read the thread, I was just contributing my two cents into the debate.

As for your specific complaint, of course I can rationalize V not memorizing another flight spell:

He wasn't thinking clearly and presumed that the flight spell that he already had up would be sufficient. Should V have memorized more? I suppose so. But V hasn't exactly been known as a good tactial planner, now has he?

Sheeesh. All this drama over a ficitional character not memorizing enuf flight spells

[the_tick_rules]

Go raven go! It'd be the most heroic thing a familiar has probably ever done.

[BlueWizard]

Go Blackwing!

[Malanthyus]

What are the odds the bird flies over the rift, Xykon zooms out to snatch the phylactery, holds him it up triumphantly, and gets snagged by the Snarl?

[Adeen]

Another question: Don't familiars disappear if their master is killed? If Xykon realises that the raven is V's familiar, O-Chul may have his hands full making sure V survives long enough for Blackwing to make it to the rift... I definitely hope that the MitD (whose existence we were conveniently reminded of again) steps in before O-Chul can be finally killed, but an attempt at a Heroic Sacrifice may be coming....

Good point about the familiar going away if V dies, I hadn't thought of that. This opens up new opportunities for Rich to possibly choose from. Nice wisdom score you got there.

[EmeraldPhoenix]

Sorry, I agree with Toper.... All you got right was that Blackwing would be coming back, which was obvious anyway. You'd have to have predicted the timing and exact circumstances and effect of his return in order to get any real bragging rights.

Yeah, I know. But I can't resist a good "told you so". Besides, who else made a thread about Blackwing coming back soon? Nobody? Just me? Yeah, thought so.

I don't really have any bragging rights, except for remembering Blackwing a dozen strips before everyone else. But that's good enough for me!