MitD - What We Know

[Watcher]

Totoro! I love that idea! I wish the MitD was a Totoro.

Edit: After decoding that guy's theory, I really think it works, but I hope it's something else. That wouldn't be a satisfying MitD for me.

[fangthane]

I have it! It's not a monster per se but a deceased ex-NFL player.

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I say it's John Matuszak.

I don't recall seeing anyone ever claiming this before, but the MitD bears a lot of similarity (other than his lack of garbled speech) to Sloth Fratelli from the Goonies movie. Scary, eats Babies (of the Ruth variety, at least), smells like fish heads and apparently eats almost anything, is chained in the darkness, likes kids, and according to Chunk "Geez, mister, you're even hungrier than me!"

Add to that the low likelihood of finding a NFL player in the jungle, Matuszak's penchant for self-exposure (the faint of heart probably shouldn't do a Google image search with Safe turned off) and the fact that his Wiki entry indicates he was always big for his size, and it's much more reasonable. Factor in the ability of coke users and NFL players both to shrug off injuries which would debilitate others with Sloth's ability to rip chains out of concrete moorings to get a chocolate bar, and I think we have a winner.*

*Please note that while I make a pretty good case I'm still fairly sure this is NOT what the MitD is. But hey, it's fun to speculate, no? :)

[The Vorpal Tribble]

You can take out the Psionic Time Hop. Doesn't work that way.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

You can take out the Psionic Time Hop. Doesn't work that way.

Seconded (and I was one of the one's to first propose it).

However psionic powers Reality Revision and Bend Reality should be added to the list of Wish, Limited Wish or Miracle like powers.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Seconded (and I was one of the one's to first propose it).

However psionic powers Reality Revision and Bend Reality should be added to the list of Wish, Limited Wish or Miracle like powers.

If MitD is psionic, and given that Redcloak knows what he is, why would Redcloak spend time trying to figure out if psionics existed in the OotSverse?

Grey Wolf

[HamsterOfTheGod]

If MitD is psionic, and given that Redcloak knows what he is, why would Redcloak spend time trying to figure out if psionics existed in the OotSverse?

Grey Wolf

*sigh*

1) RC's comment was a joke.

2) If anything it tells us that psionics are not banned in the OotSverse.

3) If the MitD made V and O Chul escape, we know RC and Xykon do not know that the MitD can do that. So we know at least one thing about the MitD that RC and Xykon do not know in story.

4) RC may know what the MitD is but may not know full extent of its powers including its psionic nature if any. In game terms (which the story does not have to follow), knowing the specific abilities of a creature is a higher DC than having general knowledge of the creature.

5) Again in game terms (which the story does not have to follow), spells like teleport for ex, by the RAW, do not allow the caster to teleport an unwilling subject. As discussed before in this thead, there are very few creatures/ways that you can teleport other, for example the Crypt Thing has a teleport other attack. These creatures/ways do not fit the MitD's other characteristics.

6) The spells that by RAW could do what was portrayed in the comic include Wish and Miracle and perhaps Limited Wish. Reality Revision and Bend Reality are simply the psionic versions of Wish and Limited Wish. Given, no good reason to exclude psionics, these two should be included IMHO.

[Skorj]

I agree with Katana_Geldar. The biggest problem with this theory is that the big reveal of MitD, which is being built on more and more, would end up being a major disappointment. Either he uses a drawing for him that no-one can recognise, or we are back to copyright issues by using one of the characters from the movie. Also, I am wondering where "sleeping after he uses his power", "can create earthquakes by stomping his foot" and "can teleport people" fit into this theory.

Grey Wolf

Oh, if it were any sort of rip-off of the movie it would be totally lame - and I'm sure it won't be. You're right that, like the Jabberwock idea, there'd be no specific image for a big reveal.

But at this point I think that we've thoroughly gone over everything that would have a recognizable image for a big reveal. It's not going to be a D&D monster that more than 1% of the readers would recognize because we've looked at them all 11 times now and nothing fits. It's not going to be some pop-culture reference like Godzilla or some lame Pokemon, because that's just not Rich's style.

If we reject the whole idea of a "single panel reveal", and instead expect something that Rich will have to take a few panels to explain, because he added a bunch of color and details to something that we'd only recognize as a concept, then I think there are actually a few possibilities. (And we know Rich is all about giving depth and substance to villians and monsters). Also - this whole "build up" of the mystery of the MitD has been a fandom thing: there's really hasn't been much in-comic wondering about what the MitD might be.

I think the MitD has to be something like a Jabberwock or my idea, simply by process of elimination!

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Also - this whole "build up" of the mystery of the MitD has been a fandom thing: there's really hasn't been much in-comic wondering about what the MitD might be.

There doesn't need to be. Rich is very much aware that we speculate over it, and he is purposely keeping the info away from us*, even making jokes about it and dedicating time to talk about it in the books. All that builds suspense, and Rich is very much aware of it, even if the characters themselves don't much care.

I do not think, however, that all that suspense building can be resolved with a convoluted page where a wall of text explains that the strange creature is, in fact, the character of the aforementioned film, because that would fall flat, and would make a lot of readers feel cheated. Yes, I know we have more or less concluded that no monster 99.9% of us could recognise will satisfy all conditions and that it will likely be obscure and maybe named in the page title. Characters won't know what it is, hang a lampshade on the fact they have no idea what it is, and move on - but the reveal will serve the purpose of letting the fans know. Now, Rich is an excellent writer, and maybe he's thought it through and has a way to deliver it, but I think it more likely that it will remain an obscure joke, about a creature published in a remote supplement by a third party.

Grey Wolf

* I actually typed "keeping us in the dark", but such pun is too horrible to contemplate, even with "pun not intended" after it

[Kish]

I think Grey_Wolf_c raises an important point. Whatever psionic powers the creature in the darkness has, they weren't known to Redcloak. Whatever type of creature the creature in the darkness actually is, "psionic" isn't central to its identity.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I think Grey_Wolf_c raises an important point. Whatever psionic powers the creature in the darkness has, they weren't known to Redcloak. Whatever type of creature the creature in the darkness actually is, "psionic" isn't central to its identity.

That is a good point. I wish I had though that far, but glad someone finished my train of thought

Generalising, I can see two conclusions. First, that Redcloak is mistaken - he thinks he knows what MitD is, but he doesn't. Second, that the power of MitD is not expected in his class - not unlike his ability to talk, say.

If it is the first one, that is a good clue, since we'd be looking for something that looks like something else, close enough that the extremely over-educated geek Redcloak cannot tell them apart. This is a point in favor of the dream worm thing that looks different to each person, I suppose, but there must be other mimics.

If it is the second one, we'd be looking for a creature with class levels - raises its own problems of where he is gaining those levels from in the first place.

Grey Wolf

[Watcher]

Especially chewy Mallomars, of course.

[E-Arkham]

Spoiler

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Li Lung (Earth Dragon). From 3rd edition Oriental Adventures (and earlier, 1st edition Fiendish Folio).

Sample of description: "A li lung has the body and tail of a lion with a humanlike face. Colorful quills like the tail feathers of a peacock adorn its wings (li lungs are the only lung dragons with wings), and its eyes look like molten gold with small black pupils in their midst."

CR and size ranges from 8 (Juvenile) and medium to 24 (Great Wyrm) and gargantuan. Young Adult is large. Ancient is the first size at Huge (debatably still able to fit inside cage) as well as CR21, and has a strength in the mid 30s.

Innate once a day Earthquake ability as well as a roar. All lung dragons have a plane shift ability.

PROS:

1) Could easily be mistaken for another creature such as a sphinx or manticore
2) Description of eyes is spot on
3) Reasonably strong, potentially challenging, and (debatably) correctly sized
4) Somewhat obscure yet could still be presented with an iconic appearance
5) Damage reduction
6) Has both earthquake AND a powerful roar

CONS:

1) Aside from plane shift, lacks any wish, miracle or teleport ability that could reasonably explain O'Chul and V's escape
2) Personality (sleepiness, constant desire to consume, etc) doesn't match typical li lung's description
3) Even mid 30s strength is probably not able to knock Miko and her horse several miles

I don't think the MitD is this creature -- not quite dramatic enough IMO -- but it's an interesting comparison anyway, especially about the eyes. And I don't think anyone has mentioned this one yet.

Kep

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I don't think the MitD is this creature -- not quite dramatic enough IMO -- but it's an interesting comparison anyway, especially about the eyes. And I don't think anyone has mentioned this one yet.

Kep

No, it has not been mentioned before, but it does highlight the fact that 20-odd years of expansions are a lot to look through, and there are bound to be creatures none of us have ever encountered.

Good addition to the list. Thanks, Kep!

Grey Wolf

[Selene]

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I really don't want to give it away, because figuring it out was so fun, so I've ROT13d it on top of spoilering it.

Gur ZvgQ vf gur zbafgre haqre gur orq, be gur zbafgre va gur pybfrg.

Am I the only one who doesn't speak Cursed Haley?

3) If the MitD made V and O Chul escape, we know RC and Xykon do not know that the MitD can do that. So we know at least one thing about the MitD that RC and Xykon do not know in story.

We've never gotten confirmation that Xykon actually knows what MitD is, other than he's "supposed to be" scary. And RC wasn't there for the escape. All Xykon said was that O-Chul popped out of there without a trace. RC probably assumes V did it. MitD is asleep, plus he's supposed to be on their side.

Spoiler

Show

Li Lung (Earth Dragon). From 3rd edition Oriental Adventures (and earlier, 1st edition Fiendish Folio).

Sample of description: "A li lung has the body and tail of a lion with a humanlike face. Colorful quills like the tail feathers of a peacock adorn its wings (li lungs are the only lung dragons with wings), and its eyes look like molten gold with small black pupils in their midst."

CR and size ranges from 8 (Juvenile) and medium to 24 (Great Wyrm) and gargantuan. Young Adult is large. Ancient is the first size at Huge (debatably still able to fit inside cage) as well as CR21, and has a strength in the mid 30s.

Innate once a day Earthquake ability as well as a roar. All lung dragons have a plane shift ability.

PROS:

1) Could easily be mistaken for another creature such as a sphinx or manticore
2) Description of eyes is spot on
3) Reasonably strong, potentially challenging, and (debatably) correctly sized
4) Somewhat obscure yet could still be presented with an iconic appearance
5) Damage reduction
6) Has both earthquake AND a powerful roar

CONS:

1) Aside from plane shift, lacks any wish, miracle or teleport ability that could reasonably explain O'Chul and V's escape
2) Personality (sleepiness, constant desire to consume, etc) doesn't match typical li lung's description
3) Even mid 30s strength is probably not able to knock Miko and her horse several miles

I don't think the MitD is this creature -- not quite dramatic enough IMO -- but it's an interesting comparison anyway, especially about the eyes. And I don't think anyone has mentioned this one yet.

Kep

Interesting. I kind of like that idea. I bet it would be fun for Rich to draw.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Am I the only one who doesn't speak Cursed Haley?

Google ROT13, you'll get translators. Without going into detail, it is a cypher that, applied once gives you garbled text, and applied twice returns to the original, making it handy to use (since you only need one process for both).

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

[feltex]

Psionics would explain why MITD is sleepy and rests after using whatever extraordinary abilities he may have used.

The MITD shares a passion for games with another inhabitant of Dorukon's dungeon, the Mind Flayer. I don't how psionic ability is obtained in the OOTS world, but you could argue that whatever the MITD is, if it does have psionics, the Mind Flayer may have had a hand in bestowing or developing them (over a friendly game or two of scrabble). It may also explain why the MITD isn't exactly bright (if the Mind Flayer had a some MITD brain for a snack).


If the MITD is an extra-planar creature, it would explain why where he was originally found is not where his kind normally exist. That would also explain the demon roaches in his vicinity. If that is so, then it would make sense that Xykon would have placed some kind of dimensional anchor on him. If that is also the case, then the MITD would be immune/resistant to Gate spells, and thereby the gag that he doesn't perceive/comprehend the 5 Gates.

[Skorj]

As far as the MitD eyes go: it's interesting that he occasionally has fiend eyes, when get "gets his game face on". While this may just be an artistic shorthand for "MitD looking threatening", fiends do have distinctive eyes in OOTS.

I think's important that the MitD is comfortable confined in his crate (as he's clearly strong enough to leave if he wanted to, and never seems to complain about it). He really doesn't seem imprisoned there, it seems more like portable-MitD-housing.

What I can't get my head around is the gate thing. Strip 96 (where the "can't recognize the gate" gag is introduced) is about when Rich says he knew what the MitD was, and the joke has been repeated years later despite being somewhat lame as a runing gag. But if it's an important clue as to the nature of the MitD I can't make it fit with anything.

[Zedd]

So, I couldn't read the 30 pages (I read the first ones) and I didn't see this:
baby tarrasqe?

Edit: I've seen one person suggest and one person say it couldn't be because tarrasqe can't speak. I'm also not sure if he can be mentally dominated.

[Kish]

So, I couldn't read the 30 pages (I read the first ones) and I didn't see this:
baby tarrasqe?

Rrgh.

Intelligent and able to talk? No.

Able to teleport or wish others away? No.

The entire argument for the creature in the darkness being a tarrasque, as far as I can tell, is "powerful and iconic." Every other serious proposal I've seen is better. None of the others are as persistent, though.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

The entire argument for the creature in the darkness being a tarrasque, as far as I can tell, is "powerful and iconic."

Interestingly, that actually counts against it, too, since we've pretty much realised that, whatever MitD is, it is not really going to be all that iconic, or we would've found it by now. It's more like the "lion with human face" proposed earlier that I would expect at this point.

Suggestion to newcomers: search the name of the creature in the thread. It works quite well.

Grey Wolf

[Watcher]

You mean a lammasu? Or a sphinx? Or what?

[Selene]

Google ROT13, you'll get translators. Without going into detail, it is a cypher that, applied once gives you garbled text, and applied twice returns to the original, making it handy to use (since you only need one process for both).

Hope that helps,

Grey Wolf

Oh! Thank you, it does.

[Optimystik]

Rrgh.

Intelligent and able to talk? No.

Able to teleport or wish others away? No.

The entire argument for the creature in the darkness being a tarrasque, as far as I can tell, is "powerful and iconic." Every other serious proposal I've seen is better. None of the others are as persistent, though.

Baby Awakened Fiendish Half-Efreeti Tarrasque!

[Prowl]

I've got it figured out.

MitD is Pac-Man.

[multilis]

Baby Awakened Fiendish Half-Efreeti Tarrasque!

Beauty and the Beast!

Once long ago a pitfiend saw the "beautiful" Tarrasque and wished to be the father of her many babies.

They had lots of kids, but sadly only one was "intelligent", a side effect of the exact wording of the wish. "All different but beautiful like mamma"

[David Argall]

Sorry, but I haven't checked all the comments.

However, has anybody suggested a monster with a tendency to sleep, particularly after doing something studly.

[Selene]

Baby Awakened Fiendish Half-Efreeti Tarrasque!

Made out of snarl?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Sorry, but I haven't checked all the comments.

However, has anybody suggested a monster with a tendency to sleep, particularly after doing something studly.

Yes, several have been proposed, and sleeping after using powers remains one of the likely requirements of the creature, uncommon as that is in D&D monsters.

Grey Wolf

[HuntedWalrus]

Fomorian. Toddler.

[hamishspence]

Deities and Demigods- some of the more powerful divine powers have a Rest Requirement- deity must rest for a short time after using those powers.