MitD - What We Know

[Faramir]

I think there is one crucial thing suggesting it is NOT a pit fiend: alignment. The MitD is clearly not evil, despite its association with Xykon and Redcloak--that's more of an accident of circumstance. In addition, O-Chul (a character who has the innate ability to detect evil, don't forget) considered the MitD to be a "good man".

I feel compelled to remind people that the ultimate answer to the MitD's identity was given in a thread I can't locate at the moment (a genius pointed out that since he's immune to bladed weapons - which includes scissors - but takes damage from paper - by the process of elimination the MitD must be rock).

Given the pit fiend speculation I do have a question as someone who hasn't played standard rules D&D in a long time - IIRC it's possible for demons/devils to interbreed with humans (that's one of the Sorcerer options right?). Is it also possible for them to interbreed with monster types? Such a creature wouldn't necessarily be evil and might be recognized as its creature type by an explorer while having its pit fiend ancestry recognized by Redcloak.

[Kornaki]

Why would anyone be surprised that a half pit-fiend half human could speak common?

[hamishspence]

Half-fiends are quite common in D&D. And two variants exist- the Unholy Scion (almost indistinguishable from the normal creature save for scary eyes) and the Cambion (half fiend half planetouched, no wings)

Problem is, where does its power come from? None of the half-fiend variants have Wish or Miracle as an SLA, or any of the other mentioned possible ways of getting V and O-chul out.

[Lizard Lord]

Personality and intelligence wise, I think the M.I.T.D. is different then his race. Thus, when trying to figure out what he is, we can ignore stuff like alignment. That being said, I think the MitD is a home brew unique to the OotS verse. People from that world can still recognize his race, but the viewers won't.

[hamishspence]

Problem is, the Giant said "It is possible to guess- that is- it isn't just something I made up for the campaign" in War & XPs."

[Shylar]

I will randomly said it is an inevitable and leave it at that. Its improbable, and I have few reasons for it but not impossible?(maybe it is!)

Er.

[Lufia]

That's a throwaway pop culture reference, not a sign that he engages in playing P-n games.

And the MitD can't be a pop-culture reference because... ?

I find it amazing how people can consider the MitD being any monster that ever existed in D&D (never mind how far-fetched the theory), the Snarl (which frankly doesn't make sense, IMO) or any relative of Godzilla but as soon as I bring up a Pokemon that could actually fit, you get up on your almighty high-horse of "Pokemon sucks, lol".

Do I actually think the MitD will be a Snorlax? Probably not, it's not a widely known Pokemon, after all. Does it fit a good part of the requirements? Quite amusingly, yes.

[Shadowcaller]

And the MitD can't be a pop-culture reference because... ?

I find it amazing how people can consider the MitD being any monster that ever existed in D&D (never mind how far-fetched the theory), the Snarl (which frankly doesn't make sense, IMO) or any relative of Godzilla but as soon as I bring up a Pokemon that could actually fit, you get up on your almighty high-horse of "Pokemon sucks, lol".

Do I actually think the MitD will be a Snorlax? Probably not, it's not a widely known Pokemon, after all. Does it fit a good part of the requirements? Quite amusingly, yes.

Well, Snorlax can't teleport people can he?

[Shylar]

If he learns Metronome, Snorlax might be able to.

[Mystic Muse]

do we know for a fact that the MITD did this? maybe aarandarius (no clue how to spell it) did it. if he could hypothetically kill an ABD like that I think he can get past the effects of cloister.

[SoC175]

Of course they do.

But only because they enjoy the terror of living sentient beings they're devouring, being outsiders they have no actual biological need to ever eat anythig

[Shadowcaller]

If he learns Metronome, Snorlax might be able to.

Snorlax sleeps a lot thought, we have never seen Mitd sleep in any panel. And Snorlax's eyes are closed almost all the time, the mitd have his opened all the time.

[whouseknecht]

If it wasn't for the fact that we know it only has 2 eyes, I'd say it's an awakened gray render... the whole bonding thing, plus how the rangers recognized it. etc.

No one else has picked up this idea, but I think it has some promise, especially because of this citation from this link:
"Gray renders attack by grappling, tearing, and then swallowing the corpse whole. The eaten victims eventually become one with the render."

I propose that some other creature with appropriate intelligence and abilities was eaten by a gray render and was, perhaps due to its own nature, integrated into the render in such a way as to awaken the creature with the victim's powers and abilities.

This leaves open the question of what was eaten, of course...

[Lufia]

Snorlax sleeps a lot thought, we have never seen Mitd sleep in any panel. And Snorlax's eyes are closed almost all the time, the mitd have his opened all the time.

I pointed that out as the main drawback to this "theory" in my first post in this topic.

Otherwise:
Can learn Metronome and Earthquake.
Is about the right size. (6' 11")
Has very high attack and HP.
Can't normally speak common.
There's more than one.
Eats a lot, and pretty much anything.
Natural habitat is mountains.
Can be any alignment.

Uh.

[quick_comment]

Snolaxes wouldnt be recognized by hunters.

Also, I doubt the mitd is going to be something silly.

[Nerdanel]

I've been thinking for a long time that the MitD is a young tarrasque with templates. I think it fits extremely well.

There is nothing to say that the tarrasque can't breed. The obvious problem is the lack of a suitable mate, but then dragons can breed with pretty much anything.

The base creature needs to fulfill these stringent requirements so that the half-dragon template can be added:
a) Being alive
b) Being corporeal

(The tarrasque fulfills both requirements.)

I think the MitD is also a Half-Earth Elemental, so Plane Shift as a spell like ability was totally expected by me. After all, we had already seen him do Earthquake, and I got the impression the MitD has a ton of HD.

Plane Shift doesn't always produce portals. Here neither. I think the evidence implies that the fiendish version of Plane Shift used by Qarr and Sabine works differently from the standard version. They cannot take passengers, so that's one difference. I think the presence of an explicit portal on both ends is another.

As for Plane Shift being a touch-range spell:

Look at how everyone is situated. O-chul's leg is somewhat farther from MitD as the Go pieces were, but we don't know how far the MitD can reach, since we've never seen any appendages. O-chul is in turn touching V.

If several willing persons link hands in a circle, as many as eight can be affected by the plane shift at the same time.

With two people in it, a circle is formed by the two just touching. On the other hand, with the evil adventuring party example above none of the three was touching, so it's perfectly possible that OOTS just doesn't obey the circle rule.

A guess about where V and O-chul might now be:

Spoiler

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The plane of Elemental Earth, the existence of which was foreshadowed by V shortly before his decision to fight Xykon.

[quick_comment]

I've been thinking for a long time that the MitD is a young tarrasque with templates. I think it fits extremely well.

There is nothing to say that the tarrasque can't breed. The obvious problem is the lack of a suitable mate, but then dragons can breed with pretty much anything.

The base creature needs to fulfill these stringent requirements so that the half-dragon template can be added:
a) Being alive
b) Being corporeal

(The tarrasque fulfills both requirements.)

The tarrasque does not fulfill the requirement of something being easily recognizable, and a templated one even more so.

[Selene]

as soon as I bring up a Pokemon that could actually fit, you get up on your almighty high-horse of "Pokemon sucks, lol".

Well, Pokemon does suck. If some stupid thing shows up screaming its name over and over, I'm going to be seriously pissed off. I'd rather have it be a freaking spakly vampire from Twilight.

Also Pokemon is also trademarked. You want the annoying lawyers to come back or something?

I've been thinking for a long time that the MitD is a young tarrasque with templates. I think it fits extremely well.

There is nothing to say that the tarrasque can't breed. The obvious problem is the lack of a suitable mate, but then dragons can breed with pretty much anything.

The base creature needs to fulfill these stringent requirements so that the half-dragon template can be added:
a) Being alive
b) Being corporeal

(The tarrasque fulfills both requirements.)

c) Has a father. The tarrasque does not have parents, by definition. Sorry, but it can't possibly be the tarrasque.

[Shylar]

Gray render? I thought that was flavour text and it never really absorbed the abilities of the stuff it ate.

For 2 eyes instead of six? Close 4 of those eyes!

I can't decide if I support this speculation or disagree. None-the-less if there was a creature that could absorb abilities one way or another it could potentially meet all the criteria for MitD.

[hamishspence]

May depend on the setting. I seem to recall references to a planet full of tarrasques in Planescape.

4th ed has made it a creation of the Primordials, but this is 3.5- it may have a slightly different ecology here.

[Suldarr]

It's obvious. MitD is really...

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found at http://icanhascheezburger.com.
Couldn't help myself

[Kornaki]

Also Pokemon is also trademarked. You want the annoying lawyers to come back or something?

Oh. My. God. Why do you think Xykon has him hidden in the dark? The lawyers can take a couple strips to show up; that's more than enough time for the half dragon paragon fiendish Snorlax to devour the party.

This is the crowning piece of evidence that it's a Pokemon

[Lufia]

Well, Pokemon does suck.

Let's take one of the old Pokemons, Red/Blue or Gold/Silver, I got out of the loop after that. Explain to me why it sucks. This is a serious question, what flaw do the games have that make them ireedemably suck like, say, Superman 64? Here / by mp / a link to a review, anything. I'm genuinely curious.

Also Pokemon is also trademarked. You want the annoying lawyers to come back or something?

So Godzilla and its relatives are also out of the equation. 'Kay.

Edit: Love the pic, Suldarr.

[Kish]

Making the creature in the darkness "X, but with templates to explain the things he's done that a normal X can't do" or, "X, but with psionic powers to explain the things he's done that a normal X can't do" or, "part-A, part-B, part-C, and so on until we've covered everything he can do"...

Well, let's just say that if Rich does any of those, I'll be very surprised indeed. So he's not a tarrasque. He's probably not a pit fiend simply because they're not nearly powerful enough.

[Thajocoth]

I think that would rule out Efreeti and Noble Djinni because I think if MitD had the power to grant three wishes, Redcloak probably would have already wished for "Goblin Equality".

Also the fact that MitD has yellow eyes. I don't think a single person mentioned this and it's the first thing we learned. The Djinni that Celia applied to had black eyes. It's eyes are bigger than a medium creature's eyes, but what has eyes that are the same size? Ogres. MitD is the same size category as ogres. It's not as tall though, so it's probably wider.

And then there's the whole "He cast wish" thing. Looked to me like whatever he cast was called "Escape". Every time, throughout the comic, than any spell has been cast, the caster said the spell's name. So either this spell somehow doesn't need to be spoken for some odd reason, or it's called "Escape".

I'm not guessing or trying to guess... I'm just tossing these facts out there.

[HamsterOfTheGod]

I'm going to list every comic that shows or even mentions MITD, and link to them accordingly.

I'm thankful, amazed, and worried. All at the same time. Nice job.

[Nerdanel]

The tarrasque does not fulfill the requirement of something being easily recognizable, and a templated one even more so.

The tarrasque is a very famous (if rare) monster with its own distinct look.

Half-Dragon:
Has scales, reptilian eyes, enlarged teeth & claws, and often reptilian wings.

Half-Earth Elemental:
Looks normal except for little things, such as the way their eyes gleam like gemstones.

None of those change the most recognizable tarrasque characteristics, such as the basic posture and the two horns. Adding some dragon to a dinosaur-influenced creature isn't a world-shattering change. Someone who had never seen a normal tarrasque probably wouldn't even be able to tell the difference between normal and enlargened tarrasque teeth & claws.

We are not able to see much of MitD, but I think his eyes could qualify for gleaming like gemstones. It could be just the art style though.

[busterswd]

Let's take one of the old Pokemons, Red/Blue or Gold/Silver, I got out of the loop after that. Explain to me why it sucks. This is a serious question, what flaw do the games have that make them ireedemably suck like, say, Superman 64? Here / by mp / a link to a review, anything. I'm genuinely curious.

Most likely they're just blowing steam out of their rear, which is probably the answer you were looking for.

Legitimate criticism of Pokemon, though: You either had to research the types ahead of time, plan ahead for the gyms and final bosses, and make sure the specific breeds you picked weren't one of the arbitrary ones deemed to always be horribly weak, or you had to be prepared to grind grind grind grind grind grind. If you got lucky, it's a relatively smooth playthrough, but for example, if you were one of the many that picked fire, caught a bird and rat to be well rounded, then proceeded to get their asses handed to them by the first couple gyms, the only solution was grinding levels. Or if you picked, say, a butterfree, because it was a bug type that evolved twice on top of using flying and psychic powers, even the grind couldn't save you, just because its stats would always be horrible.

There are some glaring flaws in the game design that pretty much require you to have in depth knowledge of the system before you even start.

Back on topic: I would laugh for days if the MITD was snorlax, because everything does fit. Might even be a baby snorlax, which has open eyes. :-X

[Kiaman]

Pretty sure it's just a player. Can beat everyone, do anything... sounds like a player to me. Or maybe the GM's will.

[UltimatheChosen]

One significant problem with being a tarrasque: the tarrasque spends almost all of its time hibernating.