Relationship Woes and Advice, Trip to Baator

[skywalker]

Yeah...that's probably about right. I just don't feel like dating at the moment. And definitely not someone who's not a friend first.

(I realize this will probably cue the usual "friend box" discussion. And my answer is the same old thing: while there are some guys with whom I am 'just friends', I'm not disinterested in a relationship with them because they're my friends, but for other reasons. The fact remains, I would rather be friends with someone FIRST.)

I wasn't trying to force a comparison, just comparing our situations and observing that we had similar ones at similar times.

I understand completely that you want to be friends first. I have only ever had girlfriends (and... "partners") who were friends first, with the exception of the girl recently discussed.

Obviously one of your locations is false and Skywalker asked Dragona out.

It's not that hard for "cranberry sauce" to be "false," and from what I know of Dragonrider I wouldn't mind getting to know her better... However, I'm not entirely sure she's legal and of course, I don't think cranberry sauce is anywhere near here...

One tiny little piece of the hell of dating: Some women (as described by Jalor) will only date non-friends. Some women (Dragonrider, and some I've known personally) will only date friends. Without knowing which category a given person falls into, you can essentially blow your chances right out of the gate and never know why.

You can salvage them by... Going the wrong path with a girl who is understanding, as well as mature about her choices and doesn't have iron-clad limitations about silly things. If you pick one of those girls, it's easier. This is my advice in the matter.

But yes, women are selecting in opposite directions. I'm trying to remember what that's called, again.

Sociology.

Totally unrelated, I figure I should start being 100% transparent and mention my failures here as well, since I seem to be a regular advice-giver. Might serve to motivate me and improve my "game". Anyway, during a break at Friday's football game (I play in the marching band), this girl from the other school approaches me and is clearly interested, asking about the band, my school, etc. Ten minutes later, it strikes me that I never got her name, much less her frakking phone number. I'm rather bemused that I got the attention of a girl who could have had any guy there, and then forgot to ask her name. Fail snail.

Ok Jalor, you're starting to confuse me. You play in the marching band on Friday night. Presumably, this would group you into the "high schooler" category. However, you've also had a restraining order taken out against you, and had it expire. Forgive me if this was explained and I simply missed that train, but how does a high schooler wind up in a restraining order situation? I hate girls that do that.

Oh, geez, I've done that a few times. Just this year I started making a point of trying to learn (and remember) at least the names of the various people I talk to.

A cute, hippie sort of girl told me on Friday that I reminded her of the Weasley twins from Harry Potter (that picture might be a bad representation). I've been told that they are "really hot" by other girls. All I could manage was a half-hearted "that's nice of you." I really would've been on the fail boat had a certain someone not happened by later. My friends tried to comfort me by saying "It's fine, she was cute, but politically incompatible." Gee, thanks guys. Really good job.

See, you're no Rincewind, because you'd know not to look back while you were running away.

"You're no Rincewind" is going to be the title of a song, album, or maybe even the band name of the hypothetical grunge band I'm in. That's a really good one there.

EDIT: Jalor, your post I did not see up there has some classics! Of course, I have used method 2 before, but it's important to note that using a specific guy is important. In other words, "Will I be seeing you and your boyfriend at *blank?*" implies that you would rather she didn't have a boyfriend, but you don't know. Does that make sense? Bottom line, have a specific guy. Generalities won't do it for you.

The first method is not something I've ever purposefully done. It also seems advantageous as it gives the girl many good, subtle ways to casually turn you down, as well.

[Keld Denar]

"You're no Rincewind" is going to be the title of a song, album, or maybe even the band name of the hypothetical grunge band I'm in. That's a really good one there.

Only if you did songs like this!

[Jalor]

An overly dramatic girl who thinks avoiding someone is an effective alternative to telling them how you feel, followed by extreme persistence, unfounded accusations, public humiliation, indulgent parents, and throwing oneself on the mercy of the law to keep things from getting worse.

All before I'm old enough to drink my troubles away.

[Coidzor]

Yeah. Throwing yourself on the mercy of the law.

Don't do it ever again.

I hope you've learned your lesson.

[Jalor]

Yeah. Throwing yourself on the mercy of the law.

Don't do it ever again.

I hope you've learned your lesson.

I most certainly have. Chaotic alignments are made, not born.

I'm going to sleep now. I need to be up in two hours.

[xPANCAKEx]

in my experiance the vast majority of extroverted/more confident women go for 'strangers'/aquaintences and the introverted/shyer types go for friends

I've dated (and in some cases formed relationships) from both sides of the spectrum - its usually just a matter of picking up on body language

[Zeb The Troll]

...its usually just a matter of picking up on body language

This is the part that most of us have a hard time with. There ought to be classes or something.

[xPANCAKEx]

This is the part that most of us have a hard time with. There ought to be classes or something.

trial, error and experiance are things i have a hand in large quantities

the key is to keep your chin up and keep going out there even if you've been knocked back in the past. No point learning stuff if you're not willing to put yourself in a position to put that experiance to use

although i will post a list of body language basics later on if people desire - but evern those are not sure fire. It helps to know the person you're dealing wit

[Zeb The Troll]

trial, error and experiance are things i have a hand in large quantities

the key is to keep your chin up and keep going out there even if you've been knocked back in the past. No point learning stuff if you're not willing to put yourself in a position to put that experiance to use

although i will post a list of body language basics later on if people desire - but evern those are not sure fire. It helps to know the person you're dealing wit

Aye, I think I do okay now. But I'm nearly 40. If someone could have filled me in on subtleties when I was 20, I think my life would have gone very differently.

[Jalor]

although i will post a list of body language basics later on if people desire - but evern those are not sure fire. It helps to know the person you're dealing wit

I'm sure someone here would find that useful. After all, this is the Internet, where you're guaranteed to have at least one Aspie reading your posts.

[xPANCAKEx]

Aye, I think I do okay now. But I'm nearly 40. If someone could have filled me in on subtleties when I was 20, I think my life would have gone very differently.

the worst thing that despite not being GLARINGLY OBVIOUS (except for the type of blush uncontrollably around the people they like), they're still not even that subtle to be honest

[Syka]

I'm some where in the middle of the friend/stranger thing. For me there is a balance- I definitely won't date a stranger, but I also don't usually date friends, acquaintences are more like it (someone I know enough to trust but not well enough I know their life history). Not because I have anything against my friends- I've even had crushes on a couple of them before (I generally don't crush easy). Mostly just bad timing, neither of us doing anything about it, etc. Like my one really good friend whom I recently found out really really liked me in high school...when I really liked him. Yet neither of us did anything, probably because neither of us picked up on the liking and/or were too nervous to do it.

Damn our shy personalities.

I definitely would back up extrovert/introvert being a good indicator of whether a girl would rather date friends or strangers, though.

Yuuki, I'm really sorry to hear about that. :( Talk about an immature way to handle the situation.

[Serpentine]

I've been putting off putting this here, out of fear of being seen as only doing it out of spite or somesuch, but it really is puzzling to me, and I think it could at least produce an interesting discussion.

So. P came to uni... about 4 years ago. 4 1/2 now, I guess. I think that's about right. Sometime after she turned up, she got into a relationship with N. N caught her making out with W. So much for that relationship.
Her thing with W turned into its own relationship. I don't know whether she cheated on him, but he is such a cosmological douchebag that, really, he would've deserved it. In any case, that one ended very messily, and the boundaries would have been blurry in the best of circumstances.
Next was K. P cheated on K with E. K found out about it, and the only thing that stopped him literally bashing E was a noble intervention by M, the boyfriend of P's best friend, A.
So, P began a relationship with E. At some point, she got pregnant and had an abortion, without telling him. At some point after that, she started going round to my Boy's house for "couple time" with R. To the best of my knowledge, E still doesn't know about either of those, the relationship ended pretty normally, and he's still in love with her.
While with R, she fooled around with the aforementioned M. It is my understanding that they didn't actually have sex, but that they got pretty damn close to it - once, at the same time as he had his arm around his girlfriend, her best friend. P later confessed to R that she was seriously considering M as a boyfriend, until G "came on the market", as it were.
She then broke up with R, and has been with G since (for a year or so).

Now, what the bajeebus is going on with this girl? Is it just an extreme of that "Marylin Monroe" gene thing? Serial monogamy and all that jazz? Added bonus, from an email she sent me recently (I would dearly like to post the whole thing, but that would, quite likely, be largely motivated by spite):
"I understand perfectly why I have done the things I have done (something I highly doubt you do) and I don't blame myself... Also, everyone I've ever hurt with my relationship "practices" has either forgiven me or gotten the **** over it - except you and A."
I can say with a good deal of confidence that the only one of the above who has "forgiven" her is E, and to the best of my knowledge, he doesn't actually know what she did. Is it really possible for someone to be so deluded?

[Syka]

It is. It definitely is possible.

I've got to ask though......how do they get that close (ie, hooking up) whilst his arm is around his girlfriend? How the heck did they manage that, or is A just oblivious? Or did they not actually get away with it?

[Serpentine]

Watching a movie under a blanket, I think. Just the fingers were involved.

[Dr. Bath]

*snippity snip*

Is it really possible for someone to be so deluded?

The answer is yes. Since she's so good at moving on (she moves on before she's even finished the previous relationship by the looks of it) it is doubtful she notices people's hurt feelings, or even understands them as they are so contrary to her own nature.

Some people are jerks. Simple as.

[skywalker]

Watching a movie under a blanket, I think. Just the fingers were involved.

The answer is yes. Since she's so good at moving on (she moves on before she's even finished the previous relationship by the looks of it) it is doubtful she notices people's hurt feelings, or even understands them as they are so contrary to her own nature.

Some people are jerks. Simple as.

+1. That's not serial monogamy. That's serial getting-tired-of-your-home-so-you-wreck-someone-else's-so-you-can-get-a-new-one...

She doesn't blame herself? Jolly good for her... That doesn't do much for the rest of us...

[Keld Denar]

Actually Serp, I'd wager its a self-esteem issue on her part. Many people justify their existance by what other people think of them, and one outward sign of that is desireability. By doing what she's doing, she is making herself feel "desired" because she feels she has to justify herself. Its not uncommon among promiscuous people and serial cheaters. Not an excuse, but an explaination.

Sounds like she has self-esteem issues, with a slight case of ignorance and a major case of denial. I'd suggest she seek counceling, ASAP.

PS, today is the last day my ex told me I had to apologize to her for breaking up with her before she calls the cops and reports that I raped her some 2 months ago. Lets see if she was bluffing or if I get a call from a detective. One of us might see jail time, and I highly doubt it'll be me...

[Dvil]

Hey. It's me again. That's right, the random bloke from two pages ago.

Just an update, Gladys (I think that was the pseudonym used) doesn't seem to have asked this other guy yet, which is good. She's been laughing a lot while talking to me and such, which I was told to maybe look out for by the other friend mentioned. As a result I'm thinking of maybe making a move soon. Would it be better to wait a couple of days to see if this thing with the other bloke blows over, or maybe get in quick, in case they do hook up?

EDIT: also, I apologise for using the word 'maybe' so often. I should really proof-read before submitting.

[Syka]

Serp, that doesn't speak well of A's (hopefully former) boyfriend or of P. But yeah, she can definitely be that deluded. I've seen similar stuff happen.

Dvil, good luck!

Keld, keep us up to date. I hate when people do stuff like that because it makes people not believe those it actually happens to.

[Coidzor]

trial, error and experiance are things i have a hand in large quantities

the key is to keep your chin up and keep going out there even if you've been knocked back in the past. No point learning stuff if you're not willing to put yourself in a position to put that experiance to use

although i will post a list of body language basics later on if people desire - but evern those are not sure fire. It helps to know the person you're dealing wit

For something so basic, people sure seem to have a lot of trouble with it. I'd be interested to see what you'd put up.

...

Dang it Serps. Why'd you have to remind me of all of the fun of watching a movie under a blanket with a cute girl? T_T

[Alair Koraius]

So, yesterday I called VSP, and asked her out.

'Tis a dark day, friends. A dark day indeed.

It started out well. At 3 AM, in fact. I woke up at 3 AM- by the gods, what was I thinking? Nonetheless, I stayed up, all though the day. I saw a bit of Anime, fixed a problem with Sins of a Solar Empire over Hamachi (and still lost, but oh well). And then decided to call VSP, and ask her out.

What in the nine HELLS was I thinking? What in all of Baator and the infinite layers of the abyss, could have prompted me to make such a mockery of myself, I ask you?

I thought it would work.

Alas, the conversation started out poorly, indeed. She mentioned that she was going out with someone today. The words echoed in my head, and Adam twisted the meaning to "She doesn't like YOU." That didn't help my nerves any, I was so shaky, even now, 4 hours later, I'm shaking. My arm sort of had a seizure, earlier. It was weird. I'm usually a VERY shaky person, but even holding my arm down, it was shaking. I'm sure I stuttered the entire way. I can't remember. All I can remember is the reply "Oh, well, here's the thing. I'm sort of on dating hold for school."

Which, I guess doesn't man she doesn't like me (contrary to what Adam says, and he's usually right), it just means that the entire time I'm gonna be within 3000 miles of her, she's not gonna be interested in a relationship. Not to mention she doesn't have her computer, and it's not to say that she, like a lot of people, isn't just trying not to hurt my feelings by saying "there's someone else" (Adam told me that one. Isn't he great? I like the way he's so down-to-earth.)

AS well as a bunch of other stuff that's happening, unrelated to this thread, it's gonna be a looooong week.

Also, I've basically just made everything completely awkward, as unrequitted love drives people away. It's driven other VSPs away form me, and it's driven me away from someone else. Basically, life will be going on without her, because she's never gonna wanna see me again. (Yay, Adam!)

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Serp: I contest the claim of insecurity as it makes no sense given her attitude. She's looking for the rush. When a relationship gets too comfortable, the thrill of the new and unfamiliar is no longer there. Thus, the search for new territory begins once again. It sounds like she's the type that is looking out for number one and probably holds the view that others should be doing the same. It takes two to tango, and if a guy in a 'committed relationship' is willing to play, then the effects of said play on his relationship is really his problem.

Alair Koraius: Pity? Party of one? Pity? Party of one? If hitting on her once is enough to warrant her avoiding you altogether, she isn't worth much as a friend. If you act like a lovesick puppy with her, you aren't. If you can get over her, and she, your invitation to change the nature of your relationship, it's all good. Otherwise, *shrug* life goes on.

[Coidzor]

^: I like how apparently she never told her friends that they might not wanna date a cheating ho-bag and yet cares enough about it to wonder what's going through the girl's head.

Serps: She's an A-hole with both self-esteem issues and who is always looking for that new high of a new relationship.

So, yesterday I called VSP, and asked her out.
AS well as a bunch of other stuff that's happening, unrelated to this thread, it's gonna be a looooong week.

Also, I've basically just made everything completely awkward, as unrequitted love drives people away. It's driven other VSPs away form me, and it's driven me away from someone else. Basically, life will be going on without her, because she's never gonna wanna see me again. (Yay, Adam!)

Sounds like she didn't much care for you before you asked her out either.

[Pyrian]

Is it really possible for someone to be so deluded?

I doubt she's actually that deluded, though it is possible. She's obviously a highly practiced liar, so what she says defensively can be pretty much disregarded as far as accuracy goes. Probably everything else she says, too.

It's like trying to "understand" an internet troll. They don't actually care, they're just messing around. You can't expect to change them to be the way you want them to be. You just have to decide whether you want them in your life.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Where does this self-esteem comment come from?

[Coidzor]

Where does this self-esteem comment come from?

Speculation into the deep-seated nature of her defects as a person and why they should have disposed of her in the big old people factory in the sky?

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Of course it's speculation! What I suppose I should clarify is that I am asking what evidence is being used to draw that conclusion. Does a guy need to be insecure to fool around too? To be frank, I suspect some measure of bias at work here, and I'm just trying to figure out just where it is exactly. It's easy to look down one's nose at another if you do not approve of their actions, but it's hard to see the truth through tinted glasses.

I have no problem admitting that I give advice from both first and second hand experience, using the testimonies and opinions in this thread as a means by which to further hone my perspectives on the latter and hopefully giving me greater clarity when attempting to see the the big picture.

[Coidzor]

Well, I'm a misanthrope, so I like poisoning the waters and advocating the destruction of others... So, that's my excuse right there.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Right on. My personality is what happens when idealism and misanthropy test tube a baby into the world together.