Relationship Woes and Advice, Trip to Baator

[Zeb The Troll]

Alright, guys, here's something.
Its not exactly a woe on my part, for once.

For some background information, I am the oldest of my siblings, and, so, my dad has the most issue dealing with my, er, "milestones" of growing up. When I hit eighteen, he cried and was grumpy all day.
The first time I told him I went to a club (at age nineteen), he told me I was too young.
He thinks I'm too young and inexperienced to move out on my own, he still tries to steer my life, etc.

How do I tell him his twenty year old baby girl is dating a twenty seven year old man?

As a dad? Don't. Don't hide the relationship from him, but don't volunteer the age difference.

If he specifically asks, be flippant about it, but don't lie.

Dad: Oh yeah? How old is he?
You: I don't know, 27 I think.
Dad:
You: I didn't think it was that big of a deal. He treats me well and I like him.
*then show him the xkcd strip that validates the age difference*

Okay, maybe skip that last part depending on his sense of humor.

It didn't happen for me and my daughter (who is about your age, recall), but in my imaginings the above conversation, while it would still give me pause, would be the best way she could have approached me with that kind of news.

Also, I should get Alarra here to tell how she told her folks. There's a ten year gap between her and me. We're older, but it's still enough of a gap to raise eyebrows. Although, her dad doesn't seem to be as overprotective as yours is, so maybe it won't apply. Then again, her mother is, so maybe it would?



*wanders off to let Alarra know to come read this*

[snoopy13a]

How do I tell him his twenty year old baby girl is dating a twenty seven year old man?

Say that you're pregnant. After his shock, say that you really aren't pregnant This will relieve him and allow you to slip in that you are dating an older man.

I think I'm starting to channel George Constanza with this advice

[loopy]

Say that you're pregnant. After his shock, say that you really aren't pregnant This will relieve him and allow you to slip in that you are dating an older man.

I think I'm starting to channel George Constanza with this advice

My friend tried that when she got a tattoo. Only thing that happened is that she got in trouble twice, haha.

[Coidzor]

Hmm... Don't and only let it come up if it has to?

In other news. Go hike the Appalachian Trail, Axel. That was my plan for dealing with all of my girl angst, but it sorta fell through due to not being able to get in touch with my hiking buddy.

...I have got to stop wandering off to have chocolate cake in the middle of typing up my post...

[Pyrian]

RHL: Unfortunately, you know your Dad so much more than we do that it's hard for me to judge; some people take uncomfortable news better when they're told up front "I have some news you might find uncomfortable" rather than getting surprised by the information, and other people just get primed to freak out if they're pre-warned and are much easier to handle if the news just comes out casually at some point. (Interestingly, my parents are each opposites in this regard, which was sometimes inconvenient.) If it was me, I would almost certainly simply behave as I feel about the situation: non-chalant, a la Zeb's commentary above.

"Nice": I actually have a very different perspective on being called "nice" than xPANCAKEx, and it's kind of cool to have a representative example right in the thread in DeeRee. The thing is, the women I tend to be interested in tend to view kindness as a very highly desirable trait. Yet, this isn't really common; as far as I'm concerned a lass like Dragonrider is better than pure spun gold. At the end of the day, I've never actually been seriously interested in a woman who used "nice" as a put-down or dismissal.

So, like many things in life, your mileage may vary.

[Cyrano]

<.< Nice guys make me want to cuddle them. Not all of them romantically. But yeah.

I get a surprising amount of cuddling for being a total jerk, actually. I don't think I've ever actually met someone like yourself.

[xPANCAKEx]

Axel

for one thing - don't explain it to everyone when it comes up. If they ask whats bothering you, just cite "bad break up, don't ask" - sometimes talking about it TOO much can be counter productive to the whole "getting over it" deal.

having been in a similar boat, i can advise that it will get easier with time, so just get out there and have fun as snoopy13a advise

RHL

Im gunna jump on the "don't mention the age thing" badwagon. I wouldn't volunteer the information (although i would volunteer things like 'he treats me so well'), but if asked "so how old is he" then be upfront about it

Dragonrider (and Pyrian) re: nice

but if asked to cite what about those guys that makes you feel 'warm and fuzzy' the other guys who don't (even the ones who treat you well) i doubt you'd say 'oh its because he's nice'

Kind is a remark that i'd be happy to recieve... "nice" on the other hand is just so bland its offensive

I have to agree with D'anna Biers - despite being a rotten b*stard to some people, i still am on the receiving end of a lot of affection... young women are very bizarre though at times

[Coidzor]

Nah, they're just not predators so their heads are different to get into. Well, I mean, they're still human so of course they're going to be one great big bundle of contradictions.

Hmm.

That does raise the question, what is supposed to be meant by nice anyway? It doesn't seem to mean anything. I mean, friendly's not much better but at least you can make some sense of it. Kind as well, but a bit more so.

Then again, I keep expecting people not to be so stupid they don't understand the word "irreparably" when used to modify "damaging," (Yeah, adverbs are evil, I know) and not only are they mystified, they're actually enraged to the point where it feels more like I'm dealing with an anthropomorphic bear-pig than a sapient being.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Dragonrider (and Pyrian) re: nice

but if asked to cite what about those guys that makes you feel 'warm and fuzzy' the other guys who don't (even the ones who treat you well) i doubt you'd say 'oh its because he's nice'

Kind is a remark that i'd be happy to recieve... "nice" on the other hand is just so bland its offensive

I have to agree with D'anna Biers - despite being a rotten b*stard to some people, i still am on the receiving end of a lot of affection... young women are very bizarre though at times

I'm beyond sweet, nice + affectionate to any girl I meet. I spend my days surrounded by chicks, most of who have now developed an attraction towards me. My girlfriend couldn't be more drawn in.

Nice is an excellent personality trait, so long as you don't make it your DOMINANT trait. The guys who have it as the foot they put forward? They're generally undesirable pushovers, granted, but if you use it as a very prominent but not dominant feature of who you are?

That's what we call the 'sweet spot'

(My dominant trait is bizarre cuteness )

[Mando Knight]

Also, I should get Alarra here to tell how she told her folks. There's a ten year gap between her and me.

That's a decently large gap...

<.< Nice guys make me want to cuddle them. Not all of them romantically. But yeah.

Its things like this that make me question whether some of the people here are actually my counterparts from a parallel universe...

[Alarra]

As a dad? Don't. Don't hide the relationship from him, but don't volunteer the age difference.

I agree with this course of action.

Also, I should get Alarra here to tell how she told her folks. There's a ten year gap between her and me. We're older, but it's still enough of a gap to raise eyebrows. Although, her dad doesn't seem to be as overprotective as yours is, so maybe it won't apply. Then again, her mother is, so maybe it would?
*wanders off to let Alarra know to come read this*

As he said, we're older, and actually my mom was happy with the age difference. Basically her reaction was 'Thank god you're dating someone mature for a change, that actually has things together, has a job, a car, their own place, won't be relying on you to support them for once.'

The issue that my parents had was with the fact that he has a daughter that's nearly as old as I am and a grandson. Once they met him though, they were very 'Oh yes, he's wonderful and perfect for you. I suppose we'll overlook this whole 'grandfather' thing.'

[Umael]

Huh. And here I thought couples intentionally spent more...ah...time...together... when one of them was feeling crappy in order to pep 'em up.

Definitely not a universal truth.

Sometimes, when I'm sick, I just feel a little rundown and being pampered is nice. But then, if I'm just feeling a little rundown, I like to continue about my day as normal (in which case, I like to be pampered because, well, I'm a hedonist).

If I am really sick, I'm lost in my misery and I couldn't care less if anyone tried to take care of me or not.

For everything in-between, I'm... unpleasant. I'm sick and unhappy with being sick and VERY anti-social.

Even though their niceness is what makes me feel warm and fuzzy about them?

I don't really understand it...

But okay.

In part, it is because "nice" has an association with "nice guys finish last". Don't get me wrong, I know what you are talking about. Some people are wonderful to curl up against (especially if they are wearing a warm, fuzzy sweater that makes them look extra cute)... but that's not something that generates a lot of romantic tension. It can be sweet, and soft... but the trouble is that it can also be... sweet... and soft... which can be desirable traits just as well.

I hate that it's so hard to move on, when that's all I want to do.

It gets easier. With time, it gets easier.

He thinks I'm too young and inexperienced to move out on my own, he still tries to steer my life, etc.

How do I tell him his twenty year old baby girl is dating a twenty seven year old man?

Ouch.

Well, I think the big issue is that 20-year-olds aren't babies, and your father needs to accept that. On the other hand, accepting that can be very difficult for some parents.

If I had to venture a guess, I would say that the signs of you growing up remind your father that he is growing old. I gather that you two do have a caring relationship, if a bit lacking in strong communication (at least in one important aspect).

Legally, you are, and have been for two years, your own person, and while your father may mean well, he has to accept you are no longer just "his baby girl", but an adult in your own right and capable of being on your own, making your own mistakes but also celebrating your own independence.

If I may be so bold, assuming (and hoping) that you two do love each other (as every good parent-child relationship should), you should confront him with this. Tell him that you love him (if that is true, and again, I hope so), and ask him, point-blank, if he loves you (and he should). Then remind him that you are not his "baby girl", but an adult, and that he needs to respect that and respect you and your choices.

If and when he agrees, then answer his question about just how old this guy is.

Because it doesn't matter if you are dating an 18-year-old or a 28-year-old, or whether you get a tattoo, or get pregnant, or work in a cabrera or go join a nunnery - these are YOUR choices, as an adult, and as long as they are legal and don't hurt anyone, he has no say but what you give him.

[arguskos]

That's a decently large gap...

Same as my dad and step-mother (he's 42, she's 32). Not that unusual really.

[Mando Knight]

Because it doesn't matter if you are dating an 18-year-old or a 28-year-old, or whether you get a tattoo, or get pregnant, or work in a cabrera or go join a nunnery - these are YOUR choices, as an adult, and as long as they are legal and don't hurt anyone, he has no say but what you give him.

Not quite. Since she is an adult now, her dad is well within his rights to kick her out of his house, write her out of his will, etc. If you live in someone else's house, then regardless of how old you are, you are under their authority in matters pertaining to keeping your room.

[Dragonrider]

My uncle is eleven years older than his wife (my aunt) and eleven years younger than her mother (my grandmother).

I can't pretend that doesn't feel a little weird to me - not the gap so much as the fact of the exact balance between the two.



On "nice" guys...I dunno. I appreciate thoughtful and considerate, I guess. But as has been discussed in this thread before, I think it's self-confidence that wins girls over more than anything, and the combination of nice+confident is not always easy to find. Because, certainly at a teenage level, niceness isn't really rewarded in school.

[Umael]

Not quite. Since she is an adult now, her dad is well within his rights to kick her out of his house, write her out of his will, etc. If you live in someone else's house, then regardless of how old you are, you are under their authority in matters pertaining to keeping your room.

Technically, true, but then again, technically, what I said was:

he has no say but what you give him

That goes two-way - she has no say in what he gives her, including whether he gives her a roof over her head or keeps her in his will.

I guess that does beg the question of how independent you are RHL. I was under the impression that you are living on your own and supporting yourself, but that was quite the assumption to make, I'm afraid.

[Cristo Meyers]

Not quite. Since she is an adult now, her dad is well within his rights to kick her out of his house, write her out of his will, etc. If you live in someone else's house, then regardless of how old you are, you are under their authority in matters pertaining to keeping your room.

I was going to say...

Direct confrontation with a parent over this is a definite Tread Carefully. If a parent is having issues with the fact that their child is growing up, said child forcing a confrontation (and, dare I say, rubbing the parent's face in it?) can definitely do more harm than good.

It's something that the parent has to learn to deal with, no doubt, but excacerbating it might not be the best course of action. Parents are still people, and people have a really bad habit of making stupid decisions when caught off guard.

[Pyrian]

Not quite. Since she is an adult now, her dad is well within his rights to kick her out of his house, write her out of his will, etc. If you live in someone else's house, then regardless of how old you are, you are under their authority in matters pertaining to keeping your room.

Amusingly, the law treats this sort of situation as a tenancy, and the tenant has a surprising amount of rights in most states. Don't believe me? Just try to evict someone who's refusing to go... ...That being said, I don't think a knock-down drag-out fight is really on the table, here.

...the combination of nice+confident is not always easy to find.

I'm convinced that a lack of confidence actually contributes to "nicer" behavior in a significant fraction of the insecure population. Basically, they're afraid people won't like them so they strive to be as congenial as possible in order to counter-act their perception of their own unpleasantness.

[Erloas]

He thinks I'm too young and inexperienced to move out on my own, he still tries to steer my life, etc.

How do I tell him his twenty year old baby girl is dating a twenty seven year old man?

There really isn't a lot of information here to go on, but I'm going to say something no one else seems to have said yet.

Sometimes parents aren't wrong.

Young adults and teenagers seem to not be able to accept this fact very easily.

At 20 you are in control of what you do (and really you have been for a very long time even if not "legally") but no matter what you think you don't actually have as much experience as you think you do when it comes to just about everything.

Parents also probably know more about their kids then most kids give them credit for.

As for moving out on your own, that is more then reasonable enough to expect your parents to not have a problem with. Moving out "on your own" with a guy (especially one it doesn't seem they've meet or know much about) is something else entirely. Whichever case you have isn't really clear.

Without a lot more detail its hard to say anything for sure. I'm just saying it isn't a bad idea to listen to what your parents have to say.

[Zeb The Troll]

Not quite. Since she is an adult now, her dad is well within his rights to kick her out of his house, write her out of his will, etc. If you live in someone else's house, then regardless of how old you are, you are under their authority in matters pertaining to keeping your room.

Cristo and others have alluded to this, but I read in her question an implied "and stay on good terms with him" which is why I answered the way that I did.

Sometimes parents aren't wrong.

This is your post in a nutshell. Thank you. It's nice to have some support in this from time to time.

[Ichneumon]

I feel age matters less the older you are. So an age gap of 7 years might be big when you are 20, but when you are 30 or 40 or 50 even, it doesn't matter that much.

[Silfir]

The troublesome part of a 20-27 gap is that within these seven years one part has probably settled in an ordinary adult life of work, and the other has only just started. Age doesn't matter, experience does - independency does.

Equality should be present in any relationship; if one part is dependant on the other too much, he or she might end up clinging to a failed relationship. It's fine to rely on each other and each other's support, but not if that has become the sole reason for the relationship to exist. Relying on someone else is not the same as dependency - dependency is when you can't not rely on someone else even if you wanted, or desperately needed to.

That said, it's also important to take a chance sometimes. Making mistakes and learning from them is the same as living. Moving in together is not irrevocable after all, and no relationship is ever the final one until you die.

If you are not fully financially or emotionally independent from your parents then you should of course not alienate them - well, you never should alienate them ever, of course. Take your father seriously - tell him about it without silly tricks such as the "I'm pregnant" ruse, stay calm and serious. You can't expect to be treated as an adult if you don't do the same, after all. Not sure about the "do it casually" thing. If it's serious for you, and serious for your father, acting like it's not serious is not really going to help anything, right?

You can choose not to volunteer the age difference, but your parents will probably end up knowing later and they'll be angry because you didn't tell them. If you tell them right on and point out that you could have chosen to not tell them but you told them because you love them, take their worries seriously and trust them completely, and that if anything happens of course you will them and you won't let yourself get treaten badly... That should work? I don't have much experience with this kind of thing, but I think your dad would have to have some serious issues if he still got pissy after that.

Your parents are supposed to worry about this stuff. Don't act like they shouldn't, or tell them to stop. Tell them that you'll be worse off in life if they don't let you make your own mistakes and bear the consequences.

Please consider carefully if anything I just said makes sense to you, or for your situation. It might be as much how I'd want it to than how it would really turn out.

[Syka]

My age-difference thing is exactly the same as Silfir's- experience.

I have a friend whose 27 and my sister is 20, there is no way I could see something ever working out not because of age per se, but because my sister just began at a real university (junior year), meanwhile he's gotten two master's degrees and been in the workforce for almost a decade, in addition to having been married with a child (this has less to do with it because he lost his wife and child in an accident, not to divorce). But experience wise they are totally different.

But I also have friends who met when they were 19 and 24 respectively. Their experience level was similar- he'd joined the military and been discharged for an injury, but out on his own a while. She'd been out on her own and was working on finishing her BA. Their experience level was similar.

Even with the only two year age gap with Oz, when we met our experience level was similar and even though it's changed over the last two years, because we've done it together it's not a huge deal. If we met NOW, I'm not sure it would work entirely well.

Evaluate- REALISTICALLY- both of your experience levels and current place in life. If you guys are in a similar stage (like, if he was delayed from school and is now going back to college, or something like that), emphasize to your dad that you are not that different and he makes you happy and treats you well. If you guys are in different areas, that would probably make it a tad more difficult.

[AngelSword]

Seattle's not that bad of a place. I could see myself living there. It's not like there's anything tying me here.

…Does she know that?

[Klose_the_Sith]

Seattle's not that bad of a place. I could see myself living there. It's not like there's anything tying me here.

…Does she know that?

Have you told her?

[RabbitHoleLost]

Here's the thing about the 27 year old;
We both work at Target.
He's actually already gained a bachelor's from the local university, but hasn't been able to find a job FOR that degree yet. And, as such, is working at Target and is also still living with his family (His sister and brother in law and their baby), SO, in a way, I figure we're still at that equal-experience deal. Neither of us have really had a career yet, we're both still somewhat dependent on family, both working towards not being so dependent, etc.
The only two age-wise problems that have come up are:
1) I have another year til I can legally drink. This shouldn't be much of a problem, except that a lot of his social life is spent at sports bars, which I would totally be cool with, except..you know, I can't get in
2) THE TELLING MY DAD ISSUE
After talking to several people in my real life, and after the majority of you, it seems like the best idea would be to NOT offer up the information unless its asked for, or until it becomes necessary.

[Syka]

It really depends on your parent, to be honest. My mom, for instance, is one best told up front and frankly. She can be overprotective of me, but when I approach her reasonably and show I know what I'm doing, she concedes. If I hide something it makes it worse.

If your dad is anything like my mom, if you approach him in a "I know what I'm doing, here are ways I will protect myself, here is why I think this is a good idea. I want your approval, but this is a choice I have already made." rather than "I have a boyfriend....he's 27.", it'll go over a lot better.

Then again, if he doesn't listen even when you present stuff logically, your best bet is to just let him ask if it comes up.

[xyzzy]

So, I'm datin' someone now. And I'm really happy about it! But I think this is definitely something I want to maintain long-term, so I have some questions for all ya'll:

1. What's a good time frame for moving from just dating to exclusively-dating boyfriend/girlfriend?
2. What's the best way to approach this subject at that point in time?

[Coidzor]

Hmm. 1. age-bracket?
2. Are you sure you aren't now?
3. How many dates have you been on?
4. How long have you "been seeing" her?

Rabbazabba: He even want you with him and da boyz at the sports bars anyway?

[xPANCAKEx]

xyzzy

coidzilla had some relavent questions re: #1

re: #2 - often i find things are best said simply. My last serious relationship, after seeing each other a while, i just asked "do you wanna be my girl"... lame i know, but it worked.