The GiantitpAnime Fans' Visual Novel (now planning settings and routes)

[Mercenary Pen]

Communicators would wear headsets (which I foresee most bridge personnel wearing, really), which precludes a hat.

Unless of course we were to create a combination hat/headset as a single unit...

[KnightDisciple]

FYI, Zettai Ryouiki pretty much necessitates shorter skirts: the point is to provide fanservice via showing a little skin between stockings/long socks and the edges of the skirt, almost always located in the mid thigh.

Not a big fan of fanservice, so, yeah, opposed.

[13_CBS]

Unless of course we were to create a combination hat/headset as a single unit...

Quite possible...but for the more prominent members of the bridge crew, keeping the hair uncovered will be important for quick and easy character recognition, and I think it'd be odd if some bridge crew members had hats and others didn't (the captain and admiral aside), so from a design perspective, things seem stacked against hats.

[nothingclever]

Not a big fan of fanservice, so, yeah, opposed.

B-b-but...

Quite possible...but for the more prominent members of the bridge crew, keeping the hair uncovered will be important for quick and easy character recognition, and I think it'd be odd if some bridge crew members had hats and others didn't (the captain and admiral aside), so from a design perspective, things seem stacked against hats.

It wouldn't necessarily be weird. It'd just be a reflection of status quo. All the cool kids flaunt their actually drawn hair while the peons slave away forever staring down at their consoles. The shame and regret of being stuck as faceless minor characters concealed by their hats.

[Prime32]

KD, please read.

[13_CBS]

B-b-but...

*Fanservice*

*Smack*

Bad nothingclever! Bad!




(As you can see, I hold a deep personal hatred against pointless fanservice. Deep, deep hatred, akin to the hatred of Xenos by the Imperium. )

[KnightDisciple]

Ah. Read the article.

Still think it's pointless fanservice. And pointless fanservice with characters who are supposed to be military kind of rankles me.

Still voting no. *Shrugs*

[Prime32]

I wouldn't call it fanservice so much as breaking up the blocks of colour in the character design, making the details stand out more. Basic design principle, but there are few ways to use it in uniforms.

And basically, the length of a female character's socks says something subtle about their personality (see article).

[Tengu_temp]

Zettai Ryouiki should be something some characters have, and some don't. Not a standard part of the uniform, but an option.

Also, what's the point of making a VN if you don't throw some fanservice in?

[nothingclever]

I remain largely neutral on the matter. I guess I'm for the idea simply for the novelty of the military caring quite a bit about aesthetics. I could see it as a gag at some point when a character points out the peculiar dimensions of her uniform. "Why was this the decided on default?"

[Prime32]

I remain largely neutral on the matter. I guess I'm for the idea simply for the novelty of the military caring quite a bit about aesthetics. I could see it as a gag at some point when a character points out the peculiar dimensions of her uniform.

Nah, they just don't specify the length of the socks (what's the difference between socks and stockings anyway - just length?). Whether a character goes for Zettai Ryouiki is personal preference.

Also, what's the point of making a VN if you don't throw some fanservice in?

It's not like we're talking about making them wear swimsuits on the bridge. (and there are anime which have done that) See also Aya.

EDIT: *cough*

[nothingclever]

Well however you decide to do it I really don't mind. I think personal preference makes sense.

[Mercenary Pen]

I remain largely neutral on the matter. I guess I'm for the idea simply for the novelty of the military caring quite a bit about aesthetics. I could see it as a gag at some point when a character points out the peculiar dimensions of her uniform. "Why was this the decided on default?"

Socks and/or stockings will end up in a selection of standardised sizes- these won't necessarily match the sizes of real people. Not so much a case of 'one size fits all' as 'six sizes fit most'... So basically, ZR may happen and this may not be the choice of the actual character.

[kamikasei]

Zettai Ryouiki should be something some characters have, and some don't. Not a standard part of the uniform, but an option.

I agree.

Couldn't the uniforms just have a range of options? Both short and long sleeves, shorter or longer skirts or pants...

This seems like massively overthinking something that should be worked out according to what looks best in the sketches anyway.

[KnightDisciple]

I agree.

Couldn't the uniforms just have a range of options? Both short and long sleeves, shorter or longer skirts or pants...

This seems like massively overthinking something that should be worked out according to what looks best in the sketches anyway.

This seems workable.

[Prime32]

This seems like massively overthinking something that should be worked out according to what looks best in the sketches anyway.

Zettai Ryouiki is Serious Business.

Well, even if we've got one side's uniform sorted out (pants don't require much imagination) there's still the Chosen, who are likely to be a bit more varied in appearance. What with the various leaders probably dressing in armour or robes.

I'd like to see Kasanip's impression of a Prophet. (reminder: little genetically engineered children in tanks with masks hard-wired into their faces)

[13_CBS]

I wouldn't call it fanservice so much as breaking up the blocks of colour in the character design, making the details stand out more. Basic design principle, but there are few ways to use it in uniforms.

Hrm...that is a good point, but nonetheless these are supposed to be military, serious business clothes. Perhaps Zettai Ryouiki might be something better suited to casual clothing, and make it optional from there?

Couldn't the uniforms just have a range of options? Both short and long sleeves, shorter or longer skirts or pants...

It seems strange to me that a uniform would have options like that. The point of a uniform, AFAIK, is to make everyone look exactly alike for ease of identification, logistical convenience, and making infiltration slightly harder. Why waste resources making all sorts of different uniforms when you can just make a "one kind fits all" outfit?

This seems like massively overthinking something that should be worked out according to what looks best in the sketches anyway.

I must disagree. I believe that uniforms are an opportunity for us to convey things about the Empire that we might not or cannot through just exposition. A military with a lot of variety within services (options for long pants, short pants, skirts, long sleeves, short sleeves for bridge crew, for example) might come across as being informal, and can convey the idea that the military the reader is looking at is more informal and more casual than your average everyday ones. Color scheme can play with emotions: red hues are known to energize people, whereas black and gray can give off a more ominous feeling. Basing designs off of 19th century, ultra-militaristic ones has its own set of connotations. Existence of big, tough boots can imply that the wearer is expected to go into combat, or is a holdover from an era where that was the case, which in turn affects history. Insignia can be simplified versions of the nation's flag, which in turn can symbolize values that the country holds dear. And so forth.

[Cubey]

If you want uniforms to be... well, 100% uniform, then I suggest the following:

Zettai Ryouiki for female AND male staff.
How's them apples?

[13_CBS]

Zettai Ryouiki for female AND male staff.

AND male staff.

AND male staff.

AND male staff.

[KnightDisciple]

This.

Also, overall, I agree with what 13 said about uniforms being, well, uniform.

[kamikasei]

It seems strange to me that a uniform would have options like that.

Pretty sure militaries commonly have a whole bunch of different types of uniform, though which a person wears at any given time may be determined by arcane rules rather than personal or commanders' preference.

That aside, I'm not disputing that clothes can say a fair bit about a character, but I don't think skirt lengths really merit this much deliberation.

Granted, I'm no longer sure what the point of this project is actually meant to be in any case, so I can't very well say you're wandering off it.

edit: And what, you don't like guys in short shorts?

[nothingclever]

edit: And what, you don't like guys in short shorts?

I wear jeans all year round.

[KnightDisciple]

Looking at the US Military branches, there mostly seems to be a fairly small set of variation. There's dress uniforms, "service" uniforms, and "battle dress" uniforms.

There are options for a couple different colored shirts, pants, and coats with some branches. But it looks like the skirt length is "knee". No "Absolute Territory" there.

And really, it makes sense. If you have a mixed crew, it's better to encourage more conservative dress on both sides of the fence, to, well, discourage distraction. Archaic, maybe. But there it is.

And it also looks more profession to have something around knee-length, rather than "just barely covers my undies" length.

[Prime32]

This.

Also, overall, I agree with what 13 said about uniforms being, well, uniform.

Let's look at Gundam, shall we?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKxACHIfQf0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHPeyseeSsg

They usually seem to be more lax about the uniform with ace pilots (Quattro went around without sleeves, and Andrew Waltfeld had an orange pilot suit with tiger stripes). In any group of people in uniform you'll never see two of them wearing it in exactly the same way - just look at any high school. This is typically exaggerated slightly in fiction to make the characters more distinctive.

As far as I can tell, the original Mobile Suit Gundam 0079 had the same uniform for males and females. In Gundam SEED skirts are below the knee for both factions, though some major characters wear non-standard miniskirts (the ones who aren't pilots have the excuse of lack of supplies, and as said, the pilots seem to get away with anything).

I'm not entirely focused on realism here, so much as going with medium standards and memorable designs. I'm not just being Roy Mustang either - I feel it should be possible for a macho character to go sleeveless, or at least leave his shirt unbuttoned.

[13_CBS]

Pretty sure militaries commonly have a whole bunch of different types of uniform,

Of course, but as you say yourself, when it's work time the, say, bridge crew all wear one type of uniform (perhaps modified for gender) that isn't customizable, or at least that's how I imagine it.

That aside, I'm not disputing that clothes can say a fair bit about a character, but I don't think skirt lengths really merit this much deliberation.

Didn't you read the ZR article? It's serious business, mate.

But seriously, given that skirts encompass a large chunk of the uniforms, and given that ZR is a controversial issue for us, I think it's important that we try to talk it over and resolve it.

Granted, I'm no longer sure what the point of this project is actually meant to be in any case,

It's about dreams, silly.

edit: And what, you don't like guys in short shorts?


guys in short shorts?

guys in short shorts?

guys in short shorts?

Let's look at Gundam, shall we?

They usually seem to be more lax about the uniform with ace pilots (Quattro went around without sleeves, and Andrew Waltfeld had an orange pilot suit with tiger stripes). In any group of people in uniform you'll never see two of them wearing it in exactly the same way - just look at any high school. This is typically exaggerated in fiction to make the characters more distinctive.

Point.

However...

1) These are Ace Pilots we're talking about, rather than bridge crew folks. IIRC, or own Ace Pilots have their own plug suits with their own color schemes. We're talking about bridge crew guys who don't get all that much camera time.

2) Katawa Shoujo's female characters all wear the same exact girl's uniform the same exact way, except for Rin (who is justified). Despite this, we can easily tell who's who through a combination of hair color (Emi's light brown, Lily's blonde, Shizune's navy), hair style (Lily has long, wavy hair in a high ponytail; Hanako has long, straight hair that's loose and obscures her face; Misha has her famous drills), body build (Misha's plump, Emi's short and flat, Lily's tall and voluptuous), and distinct, individualized animations and facial expressions (Shizune's "hold glasses in one hand and put the other hand on her hips" pose, Misha's mad grin, Emi's cheerful smile).

I would argue that there are plenty of ways to have both identical uniforms for everyone while making all the characters look distinct.

I'm not entirely focused on realism here, so much as going with medium standards and memorable designs. I'm not just being Roy Mustang either - I feel it should be possible for a macho character to go sleeveless, or at least leave his shirt unbuttoned.

Hmm...now that you mention, I guess we could try to have some of the more lax characters (Rudy, Tohksus) try to do their best to disobey the uniform rules, if we really must have uniform variation. The excuse could be that Rudy and Tohksus are just that good at their job, so Neridia tolerates a little breaking of the rules, or Neridia is so despised by Navy top brass that they dump the worst of the Naval Academy dropouts on her for her to deal with, or something.

[Tengu_temp]

I would argue that there are plenty of ways to have both identical uniforms for everyone while making all the characters look distinct.

On the other hand, giving them some small variation in their uniforms makes them even more distinct. It's kinda lax for a military, sure, but as Kasanip mentioned before, we're talking about a universe with giant, combining robots. Realism is not as important as making the story and characters good and memorable.

Also, I totally called the "zettai ryouiki for men" idea first.

[13_CBS]

Realism is not as important as making the story and characters good and memorable.

That's true, but I believe that, even with giant robots turning into bigger robots, we can be both realistic while having good and memorable characters.

[nothingclever]

Hmm...now that you mention, I guess we could try to have some of the more lax characters (Rudy, Tohksus) try to do their best to disobey the uniform rules, if we really must have uniform variation. The excuse could be that Rudy and Tohksus are just that good at their job, so Neridia tolerates a little breaking of the rules, or Neridia is so despised by Navy top brass that they dump the worst of the Naval Academy dropouts on her for her to deal with, or something.

Oh geez this all sounds so silly to me. What if Neridia is just a lax cool dude when it comes to uniform?

On the other hand, giving them some small variation in their uniforms makes them even more distinct. It's kinda lax for a military, sure, but as Kasanip mentioned before, we're talking about a universe with giant, combining robots. Realism is not as important as making the story and characters good and memorable.

I agree.

How many characters do we have on our good guy side that'll be memorable anyway? All the unimportant people can wear the exact same thing making differences in uniform clearly not the norm.

[13_CBS]

Oh geez this all sounds so silly to me. What if Neridia is just a lax cool dude when it comes to uniform?

I guess, but IIRC the Neridia that we have now is something of a disciplinarian...I think.

What, exactly, sound so silly to you?

How many characters do we have on our good guy side that'll be memorable anyway? All the unimportant people can wear the exact same thing making differences in uniform clearly not the norm.

That is true.

[Tengu_temp]

I agree.

Whoa.