How high a level are Tarquin and Malack?

[Adama]

It occurred to me we don't really know how high level Tarquin and Malack are. On the one hand, they're seasoned adventurers with years upon years of experience. On the other hand they haven't been actively adventuring in years, so they probably haven't been racking up a ton of XP lately.

The one definite benchmark that we have for their personal toughness is Nale--despite being a match for members of the Order, who are fairly high level, Nale appears fairly sure that he and Sabine together would lose a straight up fight against Malack and a semi-incapacitated Durkon, and pretty quickly at that.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html

Even considering that Nale is multi-class, that would seem to imply that Tarquin and Malack are even higher than the OOTS. Which makes sense--judging by the gray hair he has in flashbacks, Tarquin was substantially older than any of the Order when he quit taking a personal role in adventures and conquests.

Since the evidence points to most of the Order being at level 13, we can assume that Tarquin and Malack are at minimum 14th level, probably higher.

[KillItWithFire]

It occurred to me we don't really know how high level Tarquin and Malack are. On the one hand, they're seasoned adventurers with years upon years of experience. On the other hand they haven't been actively adventuring in years, so they probably haven't been racking up a ton of XP lately.

The one definite benchmark that we have for their personal toughness is Nale--despite being a match for members of the Order, who are fairly high level, Nale appears fairly sure that he and Sabine together would lose a straight up fight against Malack and a semi-incapacitated Durkon, and pretty quickly at that.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0811.html

Even considering that Nale is multi-class, that would seem to imply that Tarquin and Malack are even higher than the OOTS. Which makes sense--judging by the gray hair he has in flashbacks, Tarquin was substantially older than any of the Order when he quit taking a personal role in adventures and conquests.

Since the evidence points to most of the Order being at level 13, we can assume that Tarquin and Malack are at minimum 14th level, probably higher.

I think you're even underestimating the Order. V can cast 8th level spells (power word: stun) which puts him at 15th so I'd even peg Tarquin and Malack at 16th or 17th.

[Gift Jeraff]

Since the evidence points to most of the Order being at level 13, we can assume that Tarquin and Malack are at minimum 14th level, probably higher.

At least half of the Order is above 13th level. I think the absolute minimums are:

Roy: 12 (He was 13th level before he got resurrected, though I'll be honest I have no idea where in the strip that's stated.)
Elan: 14 (13th level bard + at least 1 level of dashing swordsman)
Haley: 15 (Implied to have Improved Precise Shot.)
V: 15 (Used 8th-level spells versus Gannji and Yukyuk.)
Belkar: Not sure (Geekery thread says 16 based on this, but I don't think that's 1 round.)
Durkon: 13
Tarquin: 12 (If you take his word for it, he's Roy's level or higher.)
Malack: 11 (Quickened Inflict Moderate Wounds)

For whatever it's worth, Malack says he and Durkon are of equal standing. Now whether that means level, experience, status as an [ex-]adventuring cleric, or something else, I don't know.

Personally, I think Elan and Haley are 15-16, V is absolutely 15, Belkar and Durkon are 14-15, Malack is 14-16, Tarquin is 16-17, and Roy is exactly 13. Just a hunch, though. The characters' stats are all in the air so it doesn't even really matter.

[skaddix]

I seriously doubt Roy is a lower level then Elan.

Still no idea. I figure high teens to low 20s.

[Gift Jeraff]

I seriously doubt Roy is a lower level then Elan.

Roy was dead for 10 months while Elan was still adventuring, and resurrection costed Roy a level. I seriously doubt Roy is higher level than Elan. EDIT: Unless Roy wasn't 13th level when he died. Like I said, I have no idea where that number came from.

[Adama]

I think you're even underestimating the Order. V can cast 8th level spells (power word: stun) which puts him at 15th so I'd even peg Tarquin and Malack at 16th or 17th.

You're right--I was still going by V's level as of the battle for Azure City, when he could affect 13 soldiers via mass spells. (Bangs head)

Also, checking the Wiki, Elan has to be at least 15th level--minimum 14th level bard, from the number of new spells the last time he leveled up, plus one of dashing swordsman.

I'm assuming that Malack's comment about "equal standing" probably refers to a full fledged, high level cleric of another faith.

[hoff]

I assume they are level 20, badasses but not epic (they probably don't have the book with the epic rules).

[Ancano]

Don't forget that Roy was at least a level higher than the next highest level good character participating in the Azure city conflict. It's not unreasonable to think of him as being 3 or 4 levels higher than the rest of the party at the time, especially considering his underpowered class.

Anyway, I'd estimate Tarquin to be around level 16 and Malack to be level 12. Malack clearly cannot cast 7th level spells. Had he been capable of such, he would have unleashed them against Nale, rather than using two 6th level spell slots. Additionally, Tarquin is implied to have a martial class, meaning that to be around Malack's power level, he'd need to be several levels higher.

[LuPuWei]

. Malack clearly cannot cast 7th level spells. Had he been capable of such, he would have unleashed them against Nale, rather than using two 6th level spell slots.

I think it was implied that Malack wanted to draw out Nale's suffering for as long as possible (and he seemed completely unconcerned about Nale's ability to retaliate)

[Dr.Epic]

I don't think we really have enough knowledge to say. We can't even make a completely accurate guess at what level the Order is. I'd say maybe 18-19. I wouldn't put them at epic level.

[Emanick]

Roy was dead for 10 months while Elan was still adventuring, and resurrection costed Roy a level. I seriously doubt Roy is higher level than Elan. EDIT: Unless Roy wasn't 13th level when he died. Like I said, I have no idea where that number came from.

He's probably at least 14th level. Eugene claimed that he was the highest-level Good character on the Azure City field of battle - which probably does not include Soon or Miko, since they weren't involved in the main battle - and Roy does not correct him, which he doubtless would have done if able. (Yes, it wouldn't have flowed with the narrative, but storywise he would have done so.) That means he was at least level 14 when he died, and thus was at least level 13 when resurrected. He's probably gained a level since then, since in OOTS XP gain seems to be given out pretty generously. (Witness how few battles the party is in between reaching level 11 and reaching level 13.)

Also, I very much doubt that Malack is only level 12 - that would make Nale's terrified reaction to his appearance rather absurd, for then Nale would know from Cliffport that Durkon is more powerful than Old Scaly. He probably didn't use a 7th level or higher spell because he simply didn't need to.

[Grim Reader]

I a universe like the OOTS-verse, where the characters do not optimize a lot, it is possible that Malack simply has a 16 Wisdom.

[ORione]

Or maybe he had already used up his high level slots that day.

[Necrus Philius]

He may not have had very many offensive type spells prepared either above those levels and the 2 he used were his most damaging single target ones.

From Ma;ack's view point he wouldn't want to use a slay living even if he had it when he could use a couple wound spells to incap him. Just check out the 3.5 standard cleric level 7 spells and you'll see not much in immediate offense to choose from (maybe some metamagic but again he had to prepare it and who knows what he prepares?)

[KillItWithFire]

Or maybe he had already used up his high level slots that day.

I don't think that's likely. What would he use them on? Most 7th level spells aren't what you'd call "utilitarian" and up until Nale showed up it was just another day at the office.

[Zevox]

Malack clearly cannot cast 7th level spells. Had he been capable of such, he would have unleashed them against Nale, rather than using two 6th level spell slots.

Not necessarily. Harm is an extremely potent spell, doing high damage even on a successful save, and adding a quickened inflict spell after it can very often kill a person that Harm itself did not kill outright (whether because they had enough hp to survive the full damage or because they made their save and thus couldn't drop below 1 from it). Plus Nale has at least six levels of Sorcerer and some in Rogue, so he's unlikely to have particularly impressive hp for his level, which would make him quite vulnerable to that tactic.

Zevox

[Nightmarenny]

The 7th level spell list offers a wide array of spells he may have taken but wouldn't help him kill Nale. Including Blasphemy, Control Weather, Dictum, and scry. Frankly there isn't much on the list that would be helpful.

[Dark Matter]

Malack clearly cannot cast 7th level spells. Had he been capable of such, he would have unleashed them against Nale, rather than using two 6th level spell slots.

The fight gives us a lower bound for his power, not an upper bound.

Caught by total surprise, with a spell selection not picked for this, Malack still massively dominated. A better to-hit roll and Nale would died the first round.

What Malack did should have worked, and worked so well that I don't see how casting higher level spells would have been "better". Even Energy Drain would not have been a one round kill against Nale.

The 7th level spell list offers a wide array of spells he may have taken but wouldn't help him kill Nale. Including Blasphemy, Control Weather, Dictum, and scry. Frankly there isn't much on the list that would be helpful.

Exactly. And actually, even the 8th level is like that and the 9th is iffy. Nale is Evil, has Evasion, and is high enough level to have a good chance at making his save. Just slamming him with lots of damage until he runs out of hitpoints is actually pretty good... especially if you can do it in one round.

[averagejoe]

The Mod They Call Me: This seems Class Level and Geekery-ish. Sorry, but for now, we're not having these sorts of threads.