ABR Discussion Thread XXIX: Where we talk about bears....

[kpenguin]

Since when did Avbaroy share Greyhawk's cosmology?

Since Lying said so.

[Keris]

Lying's deal with Levistus is also a fundamental part of why Levistus is King as well, and why Baator has no soul trade anymore.

I am going to pretend I have read all the relevant D&D sourcebooks instead of flicking through the looking for cool character concepts and nod along.
*nods*

Since Lying said so.

Which, as FFF:R utterly divorced from FFF, was with his intro comic, right?
If so, I vote that Lying's comic be considered non-canon.

[Silverraptor]

Hey Keris! Since your here, you want to discuss about combining our ideas in CoN?

[kpenguin]

If by "feather-soft mattresses" you mean "hell faster than a bat" and by "making" you mean "getting out of", then yes.

Lying's deal with Levistus is also a fundamental part of why Levistus is King as well, and why Baator has no soul trade anymore.

In Avbaroy-Prime, at least.

[Lyinginbedmon]

Which, as FFF:R utterly divorced from FFF, was with his intro comic, right?
If so, I vote that Lying's comic be considered non-canon.

I don't see why, part of the deal also included Baator being entirely forbidden from interfering with Avbaroy.

It's all in like the last 10-15 consecutive pages of Book 2 in Remember.

[kpenguin]

It's all in like the last 10-15 consecutive pages of Book 2 in Remember.

Which isn't canon in the FFF:Rverse, which we shall call Avbaroy-2

[Lyinginbedmon]

Which isn't canon in the FFF:Rverse, which we shall call Avbaroy-2

Do we really want to go with DC comics universe-numbering?

[kpenguin]

Do we really want to go with DC comics universe-numbering?

Marvel then? Avbaroy 616?

[Keris]

It's all in like the last 10-15 consecutive pages of Book 2 in Remember.

Well, I haven't read Remember, I don't intend to do so, and I shouldn't have to read a spin-off to understand the original story.

Hey Keris! Since your here, you want to discuss about combining our ideas in CoN?

Eh, sure, if you hit me up on your IM of choice (I have my MSN, AIM, YIM and Skype addresses listed on my profile) it's probably be easier than using PMs.

[Silverraptor]

Eh, sure, if you hit me up on your IM of choice (I have my MSN, AIM, YIM and Skype addresses listed on my profile) it's probably be easier than using PMs.

Ummm... I don't use any IM's. Sorry. Can I just shoot you a pm?

[Keris]

Ummm... I don't use any IM's. Sorry. Can I just shoot you a pm?

Yeah, sure. Or better yet, I'll PM you!

[Lyinginbedmon]

Well, I haven't read Remember, I don't intend to do so, and I shouldn't have to read a spin-off to understand the original story.

Spin-offs (Good one at least) serve to either expand the original story or add to it. You don't need to read the spin-off to enjoy the original and you don't need to read Remember to understand FFF. But it's there regardless.

You don't need to read Remember to get that Lying has a deal with Levistus (Or at least that the two have a fairly twisted relationship) and the next part of Lying's introduction will happily explain why Levistus is important to it and why he's important in his own little world.

Levistus only serves in this 3-part intro to introduce Lying.

[kpenguin]

The only issue I have with it is that Levistus seems to be under the impression that his universe has been changed somehow when in fact it was created as it was.

Of course, I'm working on a comic that alleviates this inconsistancy, so no biggie.

[Keris]

Spin-offs (Good one at least) serve to either expand the original story or add to it. You don't need to read the spin-off to enjoy the original and you don't need to read Remember to understand FFF. But it's there regardless.

Remember this comic? No prior or subsequent comic in the FFF archives* explains who either the floating guy or the dude with goggles is, nor why they're choosing to help Lying. So I'm left utterly clueless as to what's going on, which, surprisingly, I don't enjoy. The same thing is going on here. You're using a character from elsewhere, without even naming him, and I'm left in the dark.

*That I can find.

Levistus only serves in this 3-part intro to introduce Lying.

No he doesn't. Having what I understand to be a prominent character from your FFF backstory comic sets a grand precedent for large areas of FFF:R's setting and history. If Levistus is there, then presumably Baator is there. If Baator is there, then presumably the rest of Greyhawk's cosmology is as well. And if Lying's deal with Levistus happened, then presumably whatever brought on that deal is there, and pretty soon we have all the extra material from FFF tagged onto FFF:R. Which is, in my eyes, not a good thing at all.

The only issue I have with it is that Levistus seems to be under the impression that his universe has been changed somehow when in fact it was created as it was.

I, personally, have issues with him being there at all. Even if Lying were to proclaim the entirety of Remember null and void, and just be trying to introduce a D&D arch-devil to the FFF:R setting, I'd be objecting. We should make up our own cosmology.

[kpenguin]

Alright then, we'll just have an official vote.

All in favor of rendering Lying's comic noncanon, vote Aye. All against, vote Nay. You may also vote Abstain, if you wish.

...

Aye

[Keris]

I vote aye, in favour of noncanonisation.

[Mina Kobold]

Alright then, we'll just have an official vote.

All in favor of rendering Lying's comic noncanon, vote Aye. All against, vote Nay. You may also vote Abstain, if you wish.

...

Aye

Why can't we just wait and to what happens in the rest of his intro before voting?

[Tiffanie Lirle]

Quote post, away!

Tiff: No ripping off CoN, please. Even if Orange has no transparent hair, horned ogres are definitely from CoN. make him some other race.

Orange was my character concept, and I'm going to use said character in any form I choose. I'm perfectly within my bounds as no rules are being broken. Orange is different enough as she doesn't have transparent hair, is near the size of an average human and doesn't follow some stupid moral code about eating anything that can talk.

But give them another name. I can see that this is going to end badly already.

Actually, the only reason anything would end badly is because you're making a fuss over it. Otherwise nobody would have cared and then we could have been talking about something people care about. Like bears.

Tiff said Orange was an ogre, which indicates she plans to mention this In-Canon. I am asking her not to.

Even if I did, nothing would change. Orange is a npc/side character who'll hang around in the background most of the time anyways.

And given that the Ogres were my creation, I have a right to request that they not be used or imitated like this.

Gremlin, you did not come up with the name "Ogre". Don't try and claim you did.

You have the right to request anything, but you can't stop anyone from making something that is similar to something you thought up.

oh and this just by the way

Spoiler

Show

Keris and Ts beat me to it.
----

I don't see why, part of the deal also included Baator being entirely forbidden from interfering with Avbaroy.

It's all in like the last 10-15 consecutive pages of Book 2 in Remember.

FFF =/= FFF:r
And so Remember is held at bay by the non-canon cannon.

As for the vote I'll abstain for now. Seeing as I don't really understand the entire situation at the moment.

[Keris]

Why can't we just wait and to what happens in the rest of his intro before voting?

Because I'm objecting to the first comic. It's very unlikely that Lying will turn around in part 2 and say "Oh, silly me, Levistus doesn't exist!", because that would invalidate his previous comic.
And it's better that I object now, and we get it sorted out, than I object after Lying makes another comic or two, which could end up as a waste of time.

[kpenguin]

A certain someone *cough*Tiffanie*cough* is forcing me to post this...

Essentially, what I object to is Remember in its entirety being shoehorned onto FFF:R. My intention is that FFF:R is very much a seperate and different universe than FFF.

Which is why the intro troubles me, because Levistus says that things have been changed when that isn't what has happened at all. A new universe has been created and this Levistus was created along with it to be a piece of it. You can see the incongruity there.

Furthermore, Remember is very much an orderly, well-planned out, well-thought out plot. In other words, something that is was very much woven by Plot. Since the plot of FFF:R is woven by Plotus, that seems to one of the first things that he would do away with.

[Darklord Bright]

I'm back, and...

I'll have to vote Lying's comic non-canon, if this is still an issue, purely because it makes no sense in FFF:R.

And Gremlin, stop fussing over the ogres. I was the one who actually designed the artistic template she's using, and you said you wanted big people with transparent hair (I'm certain the horn set-up was entirely my doing, because I remember you saying you liked what I did with it), and ogres were not something you invented. As her ogre appears to have opaque hair and a horn designed in the fashion that I decided, I see no issue with it.

Seriously, the rampant fussing about people using something from CoN (Which I actually find quite flattering, because it means they like it or think it is cool) is part of why I left.

[Mina Kobold]

A certain someone *cough*Tiffanie*cough* is forcing me to post this...

Essentially, what I object to is Remember in its entirety being shoehorned onto FFF:R. My intention is that FFF:R is very much a seperate and different universe than FFF.

Which is why the intro troubles me, because Levistus says that things have been changed when that isn't what has happened at all. A new universe has been created and this Levistus was created along with it to be a piece of it. You can see the incongruity there.

Furthermore, Remember is very much an orderly, well-planned out, well-thought out plot. In other words, something that is was very much woven by Plot. Since the plot of FFF:R is woven by Plotus, that seems to one of the first things that he would do away with.

Maybe he was made to think that because Plotus thought it would be funny?

[kpenguin]

Maybe he was made to think that because Plotus thought it would be funny?

Which is what my comic explains... sort of. If we're not going to non-canon cannon it into oblivion, my explanation is that Plot sort of just copied FFF Levistus over while weaving FFF:R Levistus. Plotus decides to just keep Levistus that way because its more entertaining that to watch him act under that delusion.

[Darklord Bright]

Let me just say: if the FFF sovice ever appear apart from as soap - I will personally make a comic where the sovice are wiped out by the ArZoot 7.

[kpenguin]

Let me just say: if the FFF sovice ever appear apart from as soap - I will personally make a comic where the sovice are wiped out by the ArZoot 7.

What about as a loofah?

[Darklord Bright]

What about as a loofah?

Minor destruction may be necessary.

[Mina Kobold]

What about as a loofah?

A whatnow?

[Ninja Chocobo]

Votin' Aye. Keep Remember out of 3FR.

[kpenguin]

A whatnow?

A type of vine whose fruit is often used to make scrubs.

[Mina Kobold]

A type of vine whose fruit is often used to make scrubs.

Scrub: a : a stunted tree or shrub b : vegetation consisting chiefly of scrubs c : a tract covered with scrub

How do you make that with fruit?